Anthony Davis vs Andre Drummond....which big would you rather build around?

[Poitier]

1. I said his floor, you do know what that means right? And I also said why, because he's scoring on easy putbacks, lobs, and garbage points.
2. Big men do not tend to develop more offensively once they get in the league - please point me to these big men who came in a developed offensively. In general, we have some garbage offensive big men because of the lack of fundamentals being taught in highschool and college.

How can it be his floor if he's already surpassed it? He's just going to stagnate from 20 yo into the end of his career? Not likely.

Jermaine O'Neal? Andrew Bynum? Antonio McDyess? There are tons of bigs who develop their game in college and come over, as well.

 

[Bomberman]

1. I said his floor, you do know what that means right? And I also said why, because he's scoring on easy putbacks, lobs, and garbage points.
2. Big men do not tend to develop more offensively once they get in the league - please point me to these big men who came in a developed offensively. In general, we have some garbage offensive big men because of the lack of fundamentals being taught in highschool and college.

This is why I said Davis.

It's going to be a lot easier for Davis to gain weight than it's going to be for Drummond to develop those "Shaq-like" skills to reach their potential. Davis' ball-handling and ability to read and react to what the defenders are giving him makes me a little more confident he can add a post game.

Just talking in general though because maybe Drummond may learn at a phenomenal rate.

 

[7oclock]

How can it be his floor if he's already surpassed it? He's just going to stagnate from 20 yo into the end of his career? Not likely.

Jermaine O'Neal? Andrew Bynum? Antonio McDyess? There are tons of bigs who develop their game in college and come over, as well.

because it's a floor - the worse he can be is another Deandre Jordan.


the best he could be is somewhere around Dwight

fairly easy concept

J O Neal, never went to college and came in with a good offensive arsenal - had a wet jumper; he got stronger and the upgrade to offense were natural progressions of his already strong post game
Andrew Bynum???
Antonio McDyess was a PF - and what are you talking about? Ijust sat here and said once these players come in the NBA big men don't all of a sudden become great post players or shooter; neither one of these guys did that. You're just naming names.

 

[7oclock]

This is why I said Davis.

It's going to be a lot easier for Davis to gain weight than it's going to be for Drummond to develop those "Shaq-like" skills to reach their potential. Davis' ball-handling and ability to read and react to what the defenders are giving him makes me a little more confident he can add a post game.

Just talking in general though because maybe Drummond may learn at a phenomenal rate.

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!


Someone get it's and actually understands basketball!!!

 

[Poitier]

because it's a floor - the worse he can be is another Deandre Jordan.


the best he could be is somewhere around Dwight

fairly easy concept

J O Neal, never went to college and came in with a good offensive arsenal - had a wet jumper; he got stronger and the upgrade to offense were natural progressions of his already strong post game
Andrew Bynum???
Antonio McDyess was a PF - and what are you talking about? Ijust sat here and said once these players come in the NBA big men don't all of a sudden become great post players or shooter; neither one of these guys did that. You're just naming names.

Lol good god your dense

IT CAN'T BE YOUR FLOOR IF YOU'VE ALREADY SURPASSED IT

1. I can tell you never saw Jermaine play
2. Bynum went from no post moves, trained with Kareem and became an excellent offensive player and maybe had the best footwork of any bigman outside of Gasol
3. McDyess was surely an elite midrange shooter once his knees became shot

Then you ignore the development that bigs who went the college route underwent to develop their offense. Don't be obtuse.

 

[GoldenGlove]

Why Davis have to get hurt though

This debate is serious, but if I'm taking a guy to "build" around I'll take Davis out of the 2. Davis is just better offensively and I don't think Drummond will be able to catch AD in that department. Brandon Jennings and Drummond have already caught that chemistry this season and it's no wonder why he's shooting such a high FG% when you check them out. Jennings goes out of his way to look for dude on the break. I think Young Money knows it's an easy assist if he hits Drum on the break, he's dunking that shyt every time.

I like both players but Davis is more skilled offensively and he's amazing defensively already.

 

[Malta]

because it's a floor - the worse he can be is another Deandre Jordan.


the best he could be is somewhere around Dwight

fairly easy concept

J O Neal, never went to college and came in with a good offensive arsenal - had a wet jumper; he got stronger and the upgrade to offense were natural progressions of his already strong post game
Andrew Bynum???
Antonio McDyess was a PF - and what are you talking about? Ijust sat here and said once these players come in the NBA big men don't all of a sudden become great post players or shooter; neither one of these guys did that. You're just naming names.

Bynum had no post game to speak of when he came into the league, the Lakers had Kareem working with him during practices & before games much like Sheed is working with Andre. I don't know why you're trying so hard to shyt on Drummond, to the point you're making up shyt, Jermaine O'neal did not have some incredible skillset either.

shyt, Bynum's best case scenario coming out of HS was said to be Brendan Haywood

 

[7oclock]

Lol good god your dense

IT CAN'T BE YOUR FLOOR IF YOU'VE ALREADY SURPASSED IT

1. I can tell you never saw Jermaine play
2. Bynum went from no post moves, trained with Kareem and became an excellent offensive player and maybe had the best footwork of any bigman outside of Gasol
3. McDyess was surely an elite midrange shooter once his knees became shot

Then you ignore the development that bigs who went the college route underwent to develop their offense. Don't be obtuse.

just because you type in all caps doesn't mean you're right.

YOu're suuppose to surpass the floor, your floor is the worse you can be - I don't think he's that far away from Jordan especially offensively and if he remains stagnat his floor is JOrdan.. NOt going to argue the semantic of what a floor is, because you obviously don't understand what it is. Additionally, it's probably because I feel he's much closer to his floor than you do (i.e. Deandre Jordan).

1. Are you serious - J Oneal already had a good skillset coming into the NBA he was just weak as fukk.
2. Dude Bynum hasn't leaped and bounds improved; he already had certain aspects to his game (footwork included) when he came into the league
3. Elite midrange shooter? LMFAO - besides that embellishment - Antonio came in the league with a jumper - he improved it but it was already part of his game. I'm not saying people can't improve their game, I'm saying reinvent themselves and be great at it especially big men aren't prone to these types of improvements. Your lacking basic understanding of this and really embellishing on some facts here.

 

[NormanConnors]

because it's a floor - the worse he can be is another Deandre Jordan.


the best he could be is somewhere around Dwight

fairly easy concept

J O Neal, never went to college and came in with a good offensive arsenal - had a wet jumper; he got stronger and the upgrade to offense were natural progressions of his already strong post game
Andrew Bynum???
Antonio McDyess was a PF - and what are you talking about? Ijust sat here and said once these players come in the NBA big men don't all of a sudden become great post players or shooter; neither one of these guys did that. You're just naming names.

O'Neal was labeled as a bust his first 4 years or so in the league and barely got any burn, he developed an offensive game once he started getting more playing time.

Hakeem and Karl Malone are both examples of bigs that developed additional tools offensively later in their career

 

[954UAlreadyknow]

This a hard thread.....

I'm sure this'll be upped for years......

 

[7oclock]

Bynum had no post game to speak of when he came into the league, the Lakers had Kareem working with him during practices & before games much like Sheed is working with Andre. I don't know why you're trying so hard to shyt on Drummond, to the point you're making up shyt, Jermaine O'neal did not have some incredible skillset either.

shyt, Bynum's best case scenario coming out of HS was said to be Brendan Haywood

Best Case: Shaquille O'Neal (see Comments Section)
Worst Case: Desagana Diop

Offense: A developing offensive center who can get by on effort, athleticism, and vastly improved awareness at this point. Gets most of his offensive from post ups, off of cuts, and from offensive rebounds. Will make some plays running the pick and roll as well. Catches everything thrown to him around the rim. Doesn’t show much of a jump shot. Establishes deep position in the post thanks to his excellent frame. Pretty effective over both shoulders in the post. Developing a nice left hand. . Becoming an effective offensive player, but is still only scratching the surface of what he can be.

From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz2mk0zhVim
http://www.draftexpress.com

I don't think you can say the same for Drummond

 

[7oclock]

O'Neal was labeled as a bust his first 4 years or so in the league and barely got any burn, he developed an offensive game once he started getting more playing time.

Hakeem and Karl Malone are both examples of bigs that developed additional tools offensively later in their career

dude you're lying. Who did Portland have on teh squad when O'NEal was drafted?????

SAbonis was the center, they had RAsheed Wallace, at points in time I believe Brian Grant. Not to mention O'Neal was rail thin and POrtland was a top playoff team during that time.

LIterally, when he got a chance to play he put up #'s which is what you stated, but it's not like he didn't have skills coming out of HS - the jumper/post moves were basically there and he made obvious improvements as he matured.

Hakeem again had the same base foundations which he improved (Karl Malone isn't even a center!!!!!! and obviously developed perimeter skills over time but it wasn't too far fetched for a PF to develop a jumper)- you guys are now comparing Drummond who has none of these skillsets to guys who had these skillsets and improved them in the NBA. Drummond is a 30% FT shooter, he's not going to all of a sudden become a 90% shooter; he has no jumper, no post game, and the foundation is not there to lead ME to believe he will develop these and become dominant. Not sure what you don't get about that.


Greg Monroe on the other hand will be > Drummond offensively by a long shot.

 

[Guess Who]

FALSE


If Drummond can't shoot FT's, he will not be a good shooter from anywhere outside the paint. WE know that, that' should be facts.

Now lets break down the rest of the game

1. back to basket post moves - NO
2. go to move - NO
3. Advanced dribbling to get around when facing up - above average (i'm giving him a bit more credit)
4. Athleticism - Yes
5. Girth/strength - Yes
6. Age - positive
7. Help side defense - Good/Great


At teh end of the day, he's a good prospect but his ceiling is Dwight not his floor - his floor is closer to Deandre Jordan - great efficiency scoring because he's only scoring on LOBS and put backs.

Big men don't develop over night to great players - most of them come to the NBA with similar skillset they leave with. You don't develop a post game over night, you don't develop great shooting over night (although you can develop certain positions on the floor where you're comfortable shooting at aka set shots).

I don't see anythign but a mass of athleticism and girth, which has people salivating.

If you don't see the potential Drummond has offence, then I don't know what to tell you, homie. I saw it in college even when he was raw...dude has touch and natural awareness around the basket, which is one of the MOST important things a big man can have on offence.

I'm not even sure why you're talking about jump shooting. Who wants to see Drummond shoot jumpers? LOL.

How many second year big men at age 20 have a go-to move?

And as for big men who developed an offensive arsenal while in the league? Chris Bosh is an excellent example. Coming into the league he had a reliable mid-range J and a quick first step, and had no moves to speak of. By year four he had a hook with both hands, the ability to break down other bigs off the dribble, a spin move going either way, up-and-under counters, and drastically improved his shooting.

Now, I don't believe Drummond will ever be an offensive dynamo, but regarding my Dwight Howard comparison, Drummond has two things Howard doesn't have--agility/fluidity and touch. These are the basis for a post-game. I actually played in the post growing up. I know what the fukk I'm talking about bro.

Also, how is Drummond's floor a player he's already better than in Deandre Jordan???

 

[7oclock]

If you don't see the potential Drummond has offence, then I don't know what to tell you, homie. I saw it in college even when he was raw...dude has touch and natural awareness around the basket, which is one of the MOST important things a big man can have on offence.

I'm not even sure why you're talking about jump shooting. Who wants to see Drummond shoot jumpers? LOL.

How many second year big men at age 20 have a go-to move?

And as for big men who developed an offensive arsenal while in the league? Chris Bosh is an excellent example. Coming into the league he had a reliable mid-range J and a quick first step, and had no moves to speak of. By year four he had a hook with both hands, the ability to break down other bigs off the dribble, a spin move going either way, up-and-under counters, and drastically improved his shooting.

Now, I don't believe Drummond will ever be an offensive dynamo, but regarding my Dwight Howard comparison, Drummond has two things Howard doesn't have--agility/fluidity and touch. These are the basis for a post-game. I actually played in the post growing up. I know what the fukk I'm talking about bro.

Also, how is Drummond's floor a player he's already better than in Deandre Jordan???

Chris Bosh is a bad example, you must not know I'm a big fan of the ACC - I watched Bosh, he always had polished moves inside with both hands. The use to post him up in college because that Australian white guy they had on the team was a scrub at the time. Did he learn some additional moves, yes...but that's called progression from your base. Did he redevelop/redefine his game...no his game was always a finesse game accented by great touch and shooting.

Drummond has touch? Yet, does not have any offensive post skills to speak of???? He continues to score on put backs and alley oops, Michael Jordan played SG and thought Corey Benjamin was gonna be a good basketball player. Just because you played a position doesn't mean you're a good evaluator of talent. With that said, I an respect your comparison with HOward and I will restate that big men are less likely to develop additional skillsets unlike their wing/guard counterparts.

Drummond may end up doing everything everyone in this thread says he'll do, history isn't on his side though and neither are the skills he's shown IMO. He''ll be solid, I doubt he'll eclipse Greg Monroe offensively.

 

[djthegreat88]

no, no, no. players that are SUPPOSED to be like davis come around like that. but none of those jonathan bender ass muhfukkas were ever playing as well as unibrow was this year.

no, no, no. players that are SUPPOSED to be like davis come around like that. but none of those jonathan bender ass muhfukkas were ever playing as well as unibrow was this year.

I'm just saying there are more players in the Davis mold than drummond. There are a handful of legit C in league. Other than dwight, none can be dominate. There are a dozen or more good pf with similar skill sets to davis. Not exactly the same player but bosh, aldridge, west, love, randolph, monroe, lee, and a few more all can play on davis level. Other than dwight Hibbert Lopez cousins maybe Noah. drummond will dominate most nights and no one can stop him when he realizes that