Fani Willis fan
Veteran
wtf is that dude even rambling on about..a team that went to the finals twice would some how be an 8th seed todayBut kidds nets took 2 against the Spurs in the finals
The Coli Where we rank Kyle Lowry over Jason Kidd.. Scust @malta
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Gil Scott-Heroin
Veteran
It's not a deflection - it's pointing out that you're the one who has an agenda because you claimed a role player of the 90s is better than one of the best PGs today. Nobody in their right mind would even suggest that the Pacers' version of Jackson was better than him - only someone that keeps pushing this 'the league today is watered down' agenda.Thats a lot more reasonable than the dumb shyt you're saying.at you tryna deflect.
I never said that at all.
Gil Scott-Heroin
Veteran
I see those Nets squads winning around 42-45 games in today's league, which would be an 8th seed in the East. shyt they would be lucky to win that many games considering how offensively inept there were (their defense would translate over though, which was the backbone of their success). There were certain players whose value was inflated due to them playing in the East during that time - Kidd being one of them.wtf is that dude even rambling on about..a team that went to the finals twice would some how be an 8th seed today
Fani Willis fan
Veteran
i thought you would post some pace adjusted shyt, if you just going by your gut then i dont wanna hear that.
What is so offensively inept about peak Kidd, RJ entering his peak, peak Kenyon Martin and then fringe stars like Van Horn, thats a solid 4th option.
Did you see some of the teams that got in the east this year ? Pacers and Detroit have more fire power than Kidd's nets ?
OG Talk
Archived
So was he dealing with an elbow injury in 2009 when he shot 33% from the field in the post season?
Or 2014 when he shot 39% in the post season?
Or last year when he shot 31% from the field and 21% from 3?
Lets be honest.. The reason his fools gold numbers fall apart in the playoffs is because he's been a fat, unprofessional, mental midget who doesn't respect the game enough to properly condition his body so he breaks down...Things that you can NEVER say about Kidd (this is the coach in me talking, sorry)
If THATS the guy you want on your team? I don't know what to tell you...
Now I'm gonna give you and Malta one more chance to just admit you were wrong, you overreacted, take the L and move on.. I'll never mention this conversation again.. Saying your wrong is actually a show of good character.. All real n1ggas have to do it from time to time..
Gil Scott-Heroin
Veteran
It's less about an evolution (the key to winning has always been the same) and weighing up what's the best way to play when you're the (or one of) main ball-handler. It just seems the PGs of today are closer to finding a better balance than ones of the past. It's not about how many points and assists you get, it's about whether or not you can generate points for your team (directly or indirectly) at an elite level and not be a handicap to your teammates. Which goes both ways; giving it to them in their spots, knowing when they're hot or have a mismatch, getting others into rhythm AND being able to score at an elite level. Because having another player that scores at an elite level not only makes the offense better in itself, but it opens up the floor for the rest of the team; it creates indecision and chaos in the defense, forces them to send double teams/extra defensive attention, creates more mismatches and stops them from double or helping off other players when they know the main-ball handler isn't looking to score. You have to be a threat to score and to pass at the same time, on every possession.No..I know it may sound arrogant but I watch the game as a player or coach and not a fan.. I'm more into the educational aspect than the entertainment perspective because I eventually want to leave corporate and coach full time..
My favorite PG's are balanced..I love the 20/10 guys like Isiah, CP3, Payton, Strickland and KJ.. It's not all about pass first..I prefer balance.. But if I had to chose between the two I'll take pass first over shoot first every time..
At the end of the day I value winning.. And historically PG's that led their team in FGA have won the title about 5 times in the past 50 years..
Maybe we are about to witness an evolution, but we shall see
It's half the reason why I don't rate Kidd as highly as most do, because he was a HUGE hindrance to his team's offense and it showed all throughout his prime when all the teams he was the main ball-handler on struggled to score.
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Gil Scott-Heroin
Veteran
There's a reason why I said this season. And why I've said a few times in this thread that prior to this season Lowry's career has been pretty forgettable. His shooting percentages dropped as soon as he had that injury - prior to that he was performing on a level much higher than he ever had before. Take away the season he had and we're not having this conversation.
Lowry's best season > Kidd's best season. I watched him play all throughout this season and never once did Kidd play better. He was the best guard in the East this season. There's no overreaction bout it, I think plenty of PGs are better than Kidd (not at an all-time level but simply at their best/peak).
Gil Scott-Heroin
Veteran
I'm not going on my gut, I'm going on my brain. FDuring those Finals runs they had a 52-win record and 49-win record, respectively - they aren't coming close to those records in the East today simply because their offense isn't good to enough to get by on their defense like they did in the early 00s to win games.
In case you missed it the first time:
2001/02 Nets - 17th ranked offfense (Kidd averaged 37 minutes)
2002/03 Nets - 18th ranked offense (Kidd averaged 37 minutes)
2003/04 Nets - 25th ranked offense (Kidd averaged 36 minutes)
2004/05 Nets - 26th ranked offense (Kidd averaged 36 minutes)
2005/06 Nets - 25th ranked offense (Kidd averaged 37 minutes)
2006/07 Nets - 16th ranked offense (Kidd averaged 36 minutes)
2007/08 Nets - 25th ranked offense (Kidd averaged 36 minutes)
And that's just their rankings during those season, can you imagine how bad they'd be in the league today?
The Bulls and Wizards had more "fire power" than those Nets teams and they didn't make the playoffs.Did you see some of the teams that got in the east this year ? Pacers and Detroit have more fire power than Kidd's nets ?
O.T.I.S.
The Monk & The Mercenary
These teams that had T-Mac, JKidd, VC, Paul Pierce, Reggie Miller, and all those other legendary players wouldnt do shyt in todays "competitive" eastern conference according to some...
These current eastern teams with ZERO superstars, HOF players, and etc., (aside from Lebron needing another big 3) are stronger teams then the ones in the east back in the day
These current eastern teams with ZERO superstars, HOF players, and etc., (aside from Lebron needing another big 3) are stronger teams then the ones in the east back in the day
wtf is that dude even rambling on about..a team that went to the finals twice would some how be an 8th seed today
Fani Willis fan
Veteran
where are chicago and washington ranked
Hollinger's NBA Team Stats - ESPN Insider - National Basketball Association - ESPN
Gil Scott-Heroin
Veteran
2002 Nets had a 104 offensive rating
2003 Nets had a 103 offensive rating
Both the Wizards and Bulls had a 105 offensive rating this season
and this is without weighing into account all the injuries both teams had which affected their offenses - they would've finished with better offensive ratings if they were healthy because like I said they had more "fire power".
Wall
Beal
Gortat
Markieff
Porter
Sessions
Even throw Nene's bum ass in there
Butler
Rose
Gasol
Mirotic
Gibson
McDermott
are all better offensively than
If Lowry is one of the best pgs of today then that's just a testament to how exaggerated the talent at the position is today. Lowry just isn't that good and I've been telling you that this Raptors team sucked for the longest. To say that Lowry is better than Kidd just illustrates how clueless you are. You're a liar just like your friend. We were in another discussion about today vs 90s and you damn sure said that this Raptors squad would be up there with the Shaq-Penny Magic if they played in the east back then. This site's search function is fukked so I can't find the post but you damn sure said that.
Art Barr
INVADING SOHH CHAMPION
There's a reason why I said this season. And why I've said a few times in this thread that prior to this season Lowry's career has been pretty forgettable. His shooting percentages dropped as soon as he had that injury - prior to that he was performing on a level much higher than he ever had before. Take away the season he had and we're not having this conversation.
Lowry's best season > Kidd's best season. I watched him play all throughout this season and never once did Kidd play better. He was the best guard in the East this season. There's no overreaction bout it, I think plenty of PGs are better than Kidd (not at an all-time level but simply at their best/peak).
nikka no and there are no facts in execution of the game or complexion of the game to aid your speculation.
As Lowry has never performed at kidd's level ever and the facts about kidd destroy you in this comparison.
fukk yo feelings,...facts and execution remain.
That is what you are not getting, and why you are wrong as fukk.
Not to mention you keep cape'n for a player in this era who is always run outta town and never produces any real results outside of the past two years.
While alternatively kidd been a worldeater with no j, and over performed on the worst franchise in damn near in NBA history originally.
To always galvanizing a group and getting them to perform and execute on a level way past Lowry.
You could never have seen j kidd play pr even seen a different era of ball to keep trying to cape for Lowry over kidd.
There are no facts to even support your claim in just day to day comparison of kidd and Lowry.
You are wrong, nikka Chu tweaked't.
Malta is wrong and he tweaked't and anyone else slighting kidd for Lowry tweaked't and is wrong as fukk.
Y'all soft and emo as hell with this I feel shyt.
When kidd's facts make you look fukkin stoopid as fukk in this comparative thread.
Ch'yall tweaked't,...all tree UV y'all.
Art Barr
teams that suck don't make it to the conference finals though.
You're a liar just like your friend. We were in another discussion about today vs 90s and you damn sure said that this Raptors squad would be up there with the Shaq-Penny Magic if they played in the east back then. This site's search function is fukked so I can't find the post but you damn sure said that.
I know the coli is all about exaggerating everything, but that's kinda pushing it.
WIth that said though, Kidd>Lowry. Not sure why anyone would argue that.
Gil Scott-Heroin
Veteran
Prior to his injury last month, he was averaging 22 points on 15 shots and had Toronto as a top-5 offense for pretty much the entire season. He was arguably the best guard in the East. He performed better this season than Kidd did at any point during his prime seasons. At no point of Kidd's career did he prove himself to be more of an offensive threat.
That's not what I said. I said the 90s Bulls and Magic were the only teams that were definitively better than this Raptors squad. Perhaps you're mistaking me for saying they were better than the other teams (Pistons, Cavs etc etc) as if that meant they were up there with the Magic because they were better than those teams.