The Coli Where we rank Kyle Lowry over Jason Kidd.. Scust @malta

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Prior to his injury last month -

Lowry's best scoring season (prior to injury last month) - 22.0 ppg on 59.8 TS% (15.6 shots per game), team had a 117 ORTG while on court
Kidd's best scoring season - 18.7 ppg on 52.6 TS% (15.6 shots per game), team had a 106 ORG while on court


His injury has not only hampered his ability to remain efficent, but it's fukking with his confidence because he can't seem to get over it; leading him to going through all this other shyt because he doesn't know what to do.
Lowry himself has already said that he's not injured tho. Stop making excuses that he isn't even making himself. If it was his elbow then he wouldn't be shooting practice jumpers after games.

Don't run from that lie either. Tell us how this Raptors team is just slightly below the Shaq-Penny Magic.
 

LinusCaldwell

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Prior to his injury last month -

Lowry's best scoring season (prior to injury last month) - 22.0 ppg on 59.8 TS% (15.6 shots per game), team had a 117 ORTG while on court
Kidd's best scoring season - 18.7 ppg on 52.6 TS% (15.6 shots per game), team had a 106 ORG while on court


His injury has not only hampered his ability to remain efficent, but it's fukking with his confidence because he can't seem to get over it; leading him to going through all this other shyt because he doesn't know what to do.
:ohhh:
 
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Lowry himself has already said that he's not injured tho. Stop making excuses that he isn't even making himself. If it was his elbow then he wouldn't be shooting practice jumpers after games.
These are direct quotes from him -

"I not gonna make excuses but it's definitely something I don't want to play with and I don't like playing with. But it is what it is, at this time of year you just play through it ... It just gets you when you can't extend your elbow, your arm the complete way. But hopefully we got it taken care of ... hopefully I won't be playing and shooting as bad as I have the last three games."

"I don't think so. We tried to do the rest, we were precautionary in Boston ... then it got hit a couple times and it flared back up. Like I said, tonight we took care of it ... we've got a day in between (games) to get some treatment and hopefully it goes down and I can get back to my normal self."

So while it may not hurt, it has affected his shooting form and confidence ever since. Shooting jumpers after the game is him trying to adjust his form and get some familiarity back in his shot, to account for his elbow. This is why it's important to see how he performed prior to the injury (which is around 90% of the regular season) to understand where I'm coming from when he was at his best.
Don't run from that lie either. Tell us how this Raptors team is just slightly below the Shaq-Penny Magic.
I don't know how many times I need to go through this.

They won 56 games without their starting SF for pretty much the entire season and their starting C for 20-odd games - they're only slightly below that Magic team because they don't have a Shaq-caliber player yet go close to making up the difference with the rest of their personnel. They're certainly better than those 90s Cavs and Hawks teams you keep inflating.
 
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That stat boy geek shyt doesn't fly. You can't judge players just on stats and you certainly can't compare players from different eras using stats without putting them in context.
You mean stats don't fly when they go against your agenda? :heh:

Of course you don't fukk with any factual data, because it would expose your whole shyt. Like somehow your eyes told you that Pacers' Mark Jackson is better than Lowry when data and reality say something completely different.
 
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And one shouldn't think I'm saying that the difference in team offensive ratings (when both players are on court) are all simply down to each player, and there's not any out-of-control factors in play. But with what I've said all throughout this thread; taking into account their scoring mentalities and skillsets it paints a general picture on what offensive impact they have/had.
 

Damnshow

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He's not scoring well you stupid fukk. You talk about him carrying the team to a win or 2 this playoffs when he's shooting a garbage ass 36% for the playoffs which is his career playoff average. What about all the games that his teammates have carried his bum ass? What about all the games that he's shot them out of? Dude is a historically bad playoff performer and you're acting like cats are cherry picking games. Shut the fukk up.

derozan is also shooting garbage ass 36%, do you realize that between these two and valanciunas (while he was in the series) there is no one else to take over the game by scoring for raps? terence thot aint shyt, carroll only good for spot up shooting, who the fukk else takes over the game huh? When you are a point guard having a task to carry your team your fukking percentage will be lesser. Look at the miami series

game 3: 11/19 58%
game 5: 9/25 36%
game 6: 12/27 44%
game 7: a whooping ass win and 11/20 and a 55%

he stepped his game up when JV was out, except game 4 where lowry shot 11 times and only made two.

my statement was lowry being a better scorer than a fukking mark jackson, lowry can actually create his own shot, see this is the problem of you old ass posters you fukking name these smaller role players and make a bizarre comparision telling a player who never drawed a double team on them would be better player than a guard who is number one scoring option and who gets double teamed.

and derozan is a bigger problem for raps than lowry, cause lowry actually passes the ball while derozan becomes a fukking black hole on offense with his complete tunnel vision and whats worse is that derozan has no 3pt shot, now that's a garbage offensive player.
 

Consumed

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@<<TheStandard>> (I know you said you'd stay outta this discussion) and @Consumed, interested to hear your thoughts on this - even if they are brief.

I'd take Lowry pre-elbow fukk up over Kidd at his best. Flat out superior offensively and I value that over anything else when ranking the position. If @Malta isn't a fan of guards that aren't respected as shooters because of the obvious hindrances it poses to an offense (Not even just from the perimeter - Kidd was a horrid finisher atr), then it makes sense for him to favor a guy who was one of the very best off the dribble shooters in the game on top of playing well without the ball, creating for others while limiting turnovers and doing all the little things people like to label intangibles that are somehow exclusive to Kidd in this discussion.

but you have a lot of people who will seriously argue Kidd over Paul & Westbrook as if its even a remote discussion so I'm not even trying to run circles around this argument
 

GoddamnyamanProf

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Wilt normally has some good insight on basketball, but the exception is with point guards. Idk if its his big man bias or what but it aint on the level.
 

cKondomsucK6

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I'd take Lowry pre-elbow fukk up over Kidd at his best. Flat out superior offensively and I value that over anything else when ranking the position. If @Malta isn't a fan of guards that aren't respected as shooters because of the obvious hindrances it poses to an offense (Not even just from the perimeter - Kidd was a horrid finisher atr), then it makes sense for him to favor a guy who was one of the very best off the dribble shooters in the game on top of playing well without the ball, creating for others while limiting turnovers and doing all the little things people like to label intangibles that are somehow exclusive to Kidd in this discussion.

but you have a lot of people who will seriously argue Kidd over Paul & Westbrook as if its even a remote discussion so I'm not even trying to run circles around this argument

westbrook ill take over kidd yes

paul has made it past the first round twice and never past the second

only 2 teams in the western conference haven't made the conference finals since the year 2000

they r pauls hornets and clippers :sas1:
 

Art Barr

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That stat boy geek shyt doesn't fly. You can't judge players just on stats and you certainly can't compare players from different eras using stats without putting them in context. I don't care what his reg season stats are, we can see how good he is(isn't) watching him play. Dude's reg season numbers are inflated and the proof of this is how they fall off dramatically come playoffs time. They goes for him and that entire team. :heh: at them being a top 5 offense when they feature 2 volume shooting guards that can't shoot.

Save the excuses too. Dude has repeatedly said that he's not injured and he hasn't shown any signs of injury. He hasn't favored that elbow one bit out there on the court.

Nope, you said that they were just as good or better than that Magic team. The only reason that I remember is that it was such an outrageous comment. You're lucky that this site is shyt and I can't pull the thread.

This shyt is bizarro world Art. Cats are actually doubling down on the dumb shyt even after being thoroughly checked. Can't respect that.


It is like when George dubya took over....
Becoming president on some bullshyt,.... we were all put in a dimensional time warp.
We were all removed from a decent world, to earth two and everything is just all whacked out.
I mean who thought the sports announcer and three point shooting Steve Kerr would be doing this shyt in golden state.
Or lebron losing four finals,.....

Maybe Jordan playing for the wizards was a sign,....

My nikka juice in jail,....

All I know is shyt is on some other dimension shyt and it is real.
Like even Malta tweak'n and I really thought all these signs of him possibly falling off was just some bullshyt but here we are in the Malta tweaked thread.
All I known is I be extra thorough in this bizarro shyt.
My ol cartoon life,...man I do some bullshyt and die on some bizzarro world bullshyt.
So , I just keep shyt a hundo.

This shyt like bizzarro world yo,.....


Like nas sold out in his second album,....
I been seeing shyt I never fukkin thought was ever gon happen.
Krs faked jax like on camera and I literally did not feel nuffin he was talembout and could not even understand that shyt, either.

shyt cray,......breh.

shyt cray,.....



Art Barr
 

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derozan is also shooting garbage ass 36%, do you realize that between these two and valanciunas (while he was in the series) there is no one else to take over the game by scoring for raps? terence thot aint shyt, carroll only good for spot up shooting, who the fukk else takes over the game huh?
I don't deny that the Raps are a flawed team only obtaining any kind of success due to playing in a garbage ass league. The Raps aren't that good? No shyt? One of the biggest problems that the Raps have is their lack of a play making point guard. One of the reasons that Derozan shoots so poorly is because he doesn't have anybody setting him up for easy buckets. Lowry can't consistently break down a defense to set himself or his teammates up. You do know that you can control or take over a game without shooting/scoring right? This is why the Kidd comparison is so stupid. Neither Lowry or Kidd are great shooters but only one could dominate a game even while his shot wasn't falling and that was Kidd. Dude could dominate a game taking 12 shots because he was great at all the other facets. Lowry is incapable of doing that. If his shot isn't falling then he's a liability out there. Imagine Kidd walking off the court back to the locker room to "get his head together" due to his shot not falling in a ecf game. He would've never did that.

When you are a point guard having a task to carry your team your fukking percentage will be lesser. Look at the miami series

game 3: 11/19 58%
game 5: 9/25 36%
game 6: 12/27 44%
game 7: a whooping ass win and 11/20 and a 55%

he stepped his game up when JV was out, except game 4 where lowry shot 11 times and only made two.
You're making excuses and cherry picking. Lowry is a volume streak shooting guard. Of course there will be some games where his shots fall. Highlighting the games that his shots fell doesn't disprove the fact that he isn't that good. His is the playoffs where every game is a time to step up. His performance in the playoffs speaks for itself.

my statement was lowry being a better scorer than a fukking mark jackson, lowry can actually create his own shot, see this is the problem of you old ass posters you fukking name these smaller role players and make a bizarre comparision telling a player who never drawed a double team on them would be better player than a guard who is number one scoring option and who gets double teamed.
This is the problem with you dumb as posters regardless of age, you try to argue with people and you don't know what you're talking about. Nobody has even argued that Jackson was a better scorer. I said that he was a better player. A volume shooting pg who can't shoot and is weak mentally isn't worth much. Give me the high IQ play making point guard who could lead and motivate his teammates. Nobody doubles Lowry. For what? He's one of the worst post season performers in NBA history. Didn't he set the record for the most consecutive playoff games shooting below 40%? On the other hand, Mark Jackson actually did draw double teams by posting up opposing pgs. The Bulls used to put Scottie on him to combat this because he was too much for their smaller point guards in the post. The league actually instituted a rule commonly known as the "Mark Jackson rule" that says players can't back down defenders for more than 5 seconds. You don't know what the fukk you're talking about.

and derozan is a bigger problem for raps than lowry, cause lowry actually passes the ball while derozan becomes a fukking black hole on offense with his complete tunnel vision and whats worse is that derozan has no 3pt shot, now that's a garbage offensive player.
shytting on Derozan to prop up Lowry is pathetic. They're both flawed players who don't necessarily compliment each other that well. Derozan's flaws don't erase Lowry's.
So you're basically admitting you lied about me saying they were just as good as the Magic? :dead:
Saying that they'd only be slightly below that Shaq-Penny Magic team is basically saying that they're almost just as good which is ridiculous. You're the one who lied. The words "definitively" and "slightly" mean two different things. Slightly means extremely close, definitively means clear. The Raptors aren't anywhere near as good as that Shaq-Penny Magic team. You're an idiot for saying that they were only slightly better than this Raptors team.
 
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Saying that they'd only be slightly below that Shaq-Penny Magic team is basically saying that they're almost just as good which is ridiculous. You're the one who lied. The words "definitively" and "slightly" mean two different things. Slightly means extremely close, definitively means clear. The Raptors aren't anywhere near as good as that Shaq-Penny Magic team. You're an idiot for saying that they were only slightly better than this Raptors team.
This doesn't even warrant a proper response. You're saying a bunch of nothing here. Just STFU. :heh:
 
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