The Coli Where we rank Kyle Lowry over Jason Kidd.. Scust @malta

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

No, you're full of shyt. You can't argue my point, so you come back with this horse shyt.

Here's something for you:

Nets 00-01 (Before Kidd arrives)

Record 26–56 (.317)
Place Division: 6th (Atlantic)
Conference: 12th (Eastern)
Playoff finish DNQ

Nets 01-02 (Kidd's arrives)

Record 52–30 (.634)
Place Division: 1st (Atlantic)
Conference: 1st (Eastern)
Playoff finish NBA Finals

And largely regarded as being robbed from MVP contention. When the fukk was Kyle Lowry under serious consideration for MVP like Kidd was?

Hell, Kidd's old ass even had the Knicks playing better for a short time before he retired. The Knicks made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs.

You CLEARLY do not know what you're talking about. If you knew all the injuries the Nets had to deal with prior to Kidd's arrival (when Marbury was their only shining light) and their makeup of the team you wouldn't be using this weak ass argument. Never mind the fact you can only value a player's contribution while they're on the team and not a season before or after, because of roster changes, scheme alterations, coaching changes, competition changes (the biggest one of all), player declines on team etc etc.

And do NOT bring up Kidd's role on the '13 Knicks as if it has any meaningful input in this argument.

 

[MooseMouthMthafuga]

Oh and I won't deny that he could impact the game outside of scoring: he was one of the best defensive PGs that's ever played the game (even despite his reputation as a top-notch defender outlasting his actual defensive impact), how he knew to give the ball to players in rhythm/in their spot and all the other shyt that doesn't appear directly in the box score. But here's the thing, we tend to overvalue and overemphasize attributes of players who aren't strong scorers, and scoring just in general. It's half the reason why people are glossing over Lowry being a considerably better scorer (greatly more efficient, better shooter, better finisher, better volume scorer and better scoring skillset) as if it isn't the most important thing in this argument.

I agree that Lowry is a much better scorer.I'm just saying, Kidd was a mutant.He had some ESP type shyt going on.


Going into a GM 7 of the NBA Finals, all the chips on the table, it would be hard for me to pick Kyle Lowry over a prime J Kidd.

"Where there's a will there's a way" should've been J Kidd's motto.Next to Michael Jordan, I've never seen a player with more will power.

Combined with a unique talent to back it up.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

You try to frame arguments to fit you narratives I will be back at the end of the season and we will see how everything stands im not doing this back and forth bullshyt.

Don't we all? Except at the very least I'm trying to get YOU and others to understand my position isn't an unreasonable one, like many think it is. I'm not trying to convert you, just trying to make you see that there's truth to what I'm saying and my position.

 

[No Homo]

No, you're full of shyt. You can't argue my point, so you come back with this horse shyt.

Here's something for you:

Nets 00-01 (Before Kidd arrives)

Record 26–56 (.317)
Place Division: 6th (Atlantic)
Conference: 12th (Eastern)
Playoff finish DNQ

Nets 01-02 (Kidd's arrives)

Record 52–30 (.634)
Place Division: 1st (Atlantic)
Conference: 1st (Eastern)
Playoff finish NBA Finals

And largely regarded as being robbed from MVP contention. When the fukk was Kyle Lowry under serious consideration for MVP like Kidd was?

Hell, Kidd's old ass even had the Knicks playing better for a short time before he retired. The Knicks made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs.

im on the kidd is better than lowry boat but kidd had a completely different team than the one that was there the year before he came

 

[AITheAnswerAI]

You CLEARLY do not know what you're talking about. If you knew all the injuries the Nets had to deal with prior to Kidd's arrival (when Marbury was their only shining light) and their makeup of the team you wouldn't be using this weak ass argument. Never mind the fact you can only value a player's contribution while they're on the team and not a season before or after, because of roster changes, scheme alterations, coaching changes, competition changes (the biggest one of all), player declines on team etc etc.

And do NOT bring up Kidd's role on the '13 Knicks as if it has any meaningful input in this argument.

You literally just did this here:

2001/02 Nets - 17th ranked offfense (Kidd averaged 37 minutes)
2002/03 Nets - 18th ranked offense (Kidd averaged 37 minutes)
2003/04 Nets - 25th ranked offense (Kidd averaged 36 minutes)
2004/05 Nets - 26th ranked offense (Kidd averaged 36 minutes)
2005/06 Nets - 25th ranked offense (Kidd averaged 37 minutes)
2006/07 Nets - 16th ranked offense (Kidd averaged 36 minutes)
2007/08 Nets - 25th ranked offense (Kidd averaged 36 minutes)


You don't know what you're talking about breh. Keep it moving.

And I called you out on it.

You're still ignoring the fact that Kidd was under strong MVP consideration, and Lowry never reached such consideration. Apparently, Kidd's contributions were stronger than what you make them out to be.

And I will bring up Kidd's role on the Knicks, because I saw for my very own fukking eyes that he improved the ball movement on that team. It's no coincidence that it coincided with making it to the 2nd round of the playoffs.

I don't know what you have against Kidd, but you're being unreasonable.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Going into a GM 7 of the NBA Finals, all the chips on the table, it would be hard for me to pick Kyle Lowry over a prime J Kidd.
.

And there's nothing wrong with that, like I said I'm just trying to get folk to understand that my stance isn't unreasonable. You have dudes on the first page acting like it's basketball sacrilege to even suggest that a peak Lowry might be better. Clearly there is an argument there to be had.

 

[AITheAnswerAI]

im on the kidd is better than lowry boat but kidd had a completely different team than the one that was there the year before he came

So do most stars when they improve a team. They can't do it all by themselves. Lebron returned to Cleveland and took them to the finals his first year back, but that wasn't the same team as the year prior.

@Gil Scott-Heroin thinking that Lowry is better than Kidd is just ridiculous.

I'm pretty sure he tried to get Kidd's autograph one time and he got snubbed. I heard Kidd was an a$$hole in person.

 

[Lord_Chief_Rocka]

And there's nothing wrong with that, like I said I'm just trying to get folk to understand that my stance isn't unreasonable. You have dudes on the first page acting like it's basketball sacrilege to even suggest that a peak Lowry might be better. Clearly there is an argument there to be had.

No there isn't

 

[Lord_Chief_Rocka]

This thread is like best of example of nerds trying their best to get into sports

 

[MooseMouthMthafuga]

And there's nothing wrong with that, like I said I'm just trying to get folk to understand that my stance isn't unreasonable. You have dudes on the first page acting like it's basketball sacrilege to even suggest that a peak Lowry might be better. Clearly there is an argument there to be had.

It's trippy because Lowry is more comparable to the guy the Suns traded Kidd for...Stephon Marbury.

I remember looking at the stats and seeing Marbury average like 24 & 8 for the Nets.Had me thinking to myself

"We may have swindled the Nets on this one"

But then Marbury taught me a lesson in empty stats

 

[Lord_Chief_Rocka]

And I'm also noticing it's some of Bron's most loyal peasants who are caping for Lowry. What's going on there

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

You literally just did this here:




And I called you out on it..

All those Nets seasons I listed, Kidd was on the team. Hence why Kidd's minutes are in parentheses. You didn't call out shyt.

You're still ignoring the fact that Kidd was under strong MVP consideration, and Lowry never reached such consideration. Apparently, Kidd's contributions were stronger than what you make them out to be.

For starters I'm talking about their respective peaks, not what they've done over their careers. Second of all, the East was at its weakest in modern history when Kidd was getting MVP consideration, you place those early '00s Nets teams in the East right now and Kidd wouldn't be getting the same MVP love.

And I will bring up Kidd's role on the Knicks, because I saw for my very own fukking eyes that he improved the ball movement on that team. It's no coincidence that it coincided with making it to the 2nd round of the playoffs.

Besides the fact that he had a limited role and wasn't even a top-5 factor on that team, this argument isn't about what they've done over their careers. This is what happens when folk jump into a discussion and don't read properly.

I don't know what you have against Kidd, but you're being unreasonable.

I've got nothing against Kidd, he was one of my favorite players growing up + I'd regularly watch him play when he was on the Nets. I'm just trying to get people to understand that their memories of players aren't reflective of their actual value/impact.

 

[Lord_Chief_Rocka]

It's trippy because Lowry is more comparable to the guy the Suns traded Kidd for...Stephon Marbury.

I remember looking at the stats and seeing Marbury average like 24 & 8 for the Nets.Had me thinking to myself

"We may have swindled the Nets on this one"

But then Marbury taught me a lesson in empty stats

Lowry ain't as good as Starbury either.

Marbury would've been a HoFer easily if he wasn't crazy

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

This thread is like best of example of nerds trying their best to get into sports

Nerds? The irony of that is, I'm probably more athletic than 99.9% of posters on this board. Get a clue breh.

 

[hayesc0]

It's trippy because Lowry is more comparable to the guy the Suns traded Kidd for...Stephon Marbury.

I remember looking at the stats and seeing Marbury average like 24 & 8 for the Nets.Had me thinking to myself

"We may have swindled the Nets on this one"

But then Marbury taught me a lesson in empty stats