Of course you can. And if he's not the player you can judge by a stat sheet, why do most arguments in favor of him contain his triple doubles?
The All Star game is a popularity contest.
I've watched more games of his than 99.9% of posters on this board. His longevity can not be denied, except the argument isn't about their respective careers - it's about their peaks.
It would pay for you read the argument properly (hint: it's not about their careers). And stop regurgitating common fan talking points, it's not doing your position any favors.Lowry isn't even a top 5 current pg.
What makes yall think he's better than a top 5 pg all time and a future HOF
Kidd led a team, that was in the lottery the prior year, to 2 straight finals. He made players better and was a walking triple double.
This nikka Lowry couldn't lead the Raptors out of the 1st rd till last year
This shouldn't even be a discussionthe Coliseum yall
Of course you can. And if he's not the player you can judge by a stat sheet, why do most arguments in favor of him contain his triple doubles?
The All Star game is a popularity contest.
I've watched more games of his than 99.9% of posters on this board. His longevity can not be denied, except the argument isn't about their respective careers - it's about their peaks.
What part of "I simply took the one where it was most kindest to him statistically, where he was at his best as the leader and had to deal with teams gameplanning for him on a nightly basis." do you not understand?
Can you stop sweeping his lack of scoring ability under the rug as if it isn't one of the most important things when comparing main ball-handlers?
It would pay for you to read properly next time:
"This season - 21.3 ppg on 15.3 shots per game (44.8% FG/60.4% TS shooting), 7.3 assists and 2.8 turnovers a game (123 offensive rating individual)
Over the last month - 24 ppg 14.8 shots per game, (50% FG/68% TS shooting), 7.7 assists and 2.8 turnovers a game (133 offensive rating individual)
Lowry in 2015/16 - 22.0 ppg on 59.8 TS% (15.6 shots), he had a 117 ORTG - before elbow injury near the end of the season
That's 80+ worth of games, a large enough sample size to work off."
Quite the opposite actually. You simply aren't reading my posts properly nor are you getting my point.
Let me ask you this:
How many Raptors games have you watched over the last two seasons? How many Suns/Nets games have you seen from late-90s/early to mid '00s?
You are still full of shyt how am i not reading properly. No one is going to argue that jason kidd is a better scorer then a player that can get 20 on any night to me finding jason kidds best scoring season and saying its his best already invalidates your argument.You talked about the raptors having the most efficient offense ever and i shot that down saying its a small sample size which it is we arent even half way through the season yet so that point goes to the bushes atm imo. You don't know what you're talking about breh. Keep it moving.
I know right i dont know whats in some of these nikkas heads Kidd on the other hand was turning around squads every time he took over a new team.
What makes yall think he's better than a top 5 pg all time and a future HOF
Kidd led a team, that was in the lottery the prior year, to 2 straight finals. He made players better and was a walking triple double.
This nikka Lowry couldn't lead the Raptors out of the 1st rd till last year
This shouldn't even be a discussion
2001/02 Nets - 17th ranked offfense (Kidd averaged 37 minutes)
2002/03 Nets - 18th ranked offense (Kidd averaged 37 minutes)
2003/04 Nets - 25th ranked offense (Kidd averaged 36 minutes)
2004/05 Nets - 26th ranked offense (Kidd averaged 36 minutes)
2005/06 Nets - 25th ranked offense (Kidd averaged 37 minutes)
2006/07 Nets - 16th ranked offense (Kidd averaged 36 minutes)
2007/08 Nets - 25th ranked offense (Kidd averaged 36 minutes)
You don't know what you're talking about breh. Keep it moving.
Because you said I'm only using a small sample from this season, when clearly I'm using games from this season and last.
Except it doesn't (I've already mentioned you could argue 2-3 seasons for him), because it was at his best as a leader of a team (controlling the ball more than any other player + Finals run) where he had teams gameplanning for him on a nightly basis.
Again you're not reading:
I've watched around 60-70% of Raptors games over the last two seasons and I've watched the majority of Kidd's games from when he was in Phoenix to NJ. I even went back over some of his games a few years ago, where I saw shyt that I didn't see the first time around (one main thing being how he'd cripple his offenses by not being a threat to score and the domino effect of that).
Of course you can. And if he's not the player you can judge by a stat sheet, why do most arguments in favor of him contain his triple doubles?
The All Star game is a popularity contest.
I've watched more games of his than 99.9% of posters on this board. His longevity can not be denied, except the argument isn't about their respective careers - it's about their peaks.
Just keep it moving breh. You clearly don't know what you're talking about.
Because you said I'm only using a small sample from this season, when clearly I'm using games from this season and last.
THAT'S HALF MY POINT! If Kidd isn't as good of a scorer (one of the most important things when comparing ball-handlers), than surely my position of Lowry being better isn't unreasonable, is it not? We can get into the discussion of all their intangibles, and everything that doesn't come up in the box score, but I'm simply using an outline for my argument that Lowry's peak as player is better than Kidd's.
Except it doesn't (I've already mentioned you could argue 2-3 seasons for him), because it was at his best as a leader of a team (controlling the ball more than any other player + Finals run) where he had teams gameplanning for him on a nightly basis.
Again you're not reading:
"Lowry has the most influence/impact (controls the ball for 6.6 minutes a game - 11th in average time of possession in the league with a 25% usage rate) on statistically the 2nd best offense of all time. Now put all the era-context and the fact we're only a third of the way through the season.aside, and simply look at how great his play is at this moment - this is him at his best."
His level of play at the moment isn't a fluke, it isn't like he's played 4-5 games at this level . There's enough games there to look at his impact and his skillset. Oh and by the way they had a top-5 offense last season too. You're talking like you don't watch Raptors games at all.
I've watched around 60-70% of Raptors games over the last two seasons and I've watched the majority of Kidd's games from when he was in Phoenix to NJ. I even went back over some of his games a few years ago, where I saw shyt that I didn't see the first time around (one main thing being how he'd cripple his offenses by not being a threat to score and the domino effect of that).
You try to frame arguments to fit you narratives I will be back at the end of the season and we will see how everything stands im not doing this back and forth bullshyt.
Just keep it moving breh. You clearly don't know what you're talking about.
Oh and I won't deny that he could impact the game outside of scoring: he was one of the best defensive PGs that's ever played the game (even despite his reputation as a top-notch defender outlasting his actual defensive impact), how he knew to give the ball to players in rhythm/in their spot and all the other shyt that doesn't appear directly in the box score. But here's the thing, we tend to overvalue and overemphasize attributes of players who aren't strong scorers, and scoring just in general. It's half the reason why people are glossing over Lowry being a considerably better scorer (greatly more efficient, better shooter, better finisher, better volume scorer and better scoring skillset) as if it isn't the most important thing in this argument.
