The Coli Where we rank Kyle Lowry over Jason Kidd.. Scust @malta

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The only thing Lowry does better is score. And what good is that if he's shown a pattern of losing that advantage during big games?
You do realize that scoring is the most important, impactful and influential part of the game, especially as the main ball-handler of the team? How does he lose that advantage when he averages more points on greater efficiency than Kidd in the postseason?

Since you believe all Lowry does better than Kidd is score (and therefore isn't better than him), do you think every #1 option are worse than those who aren't #1 options but are better in other areas of the game?
 

Mantis Toboggan M.D.

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I’m aware that Kidd had a high basketball iq and all, but let’s not prop up taking those nets to the finals like it’s some incredible accomplishment. Yeah they sucked, but the rest of the conference was as bad as them and it was easily the worst that any conference has been for an extended time. In 2001-02 they went 52-30 to get the top seed in the conference and Detroit was he only other 50 win team at 50-32. Orlando led the conference in scoring at 100.5 per game. Nobody else averaged 100, and there were multiple teams that averaged under 90. 2002-03 was worse. Detroit was the top seed at 50-32. Milwaukee led the conference in scoring at 99.5 and there were 6 teams averaging under 93 points. The struggle ball was so strong that the heat managed to win 25 games while averaging 85.6 points as a team. Think about who the top players in the east were at that time period and what holes their games had and what holes those teams had too. The fact that those nets teams were getting out of the east shouldn’t be a career highlight for Kidd, but a mark of shame for the rest of the east :hhh:. In fact aside from Allen Iverson I’m pretty sure here wasn’t a past, present, or future MVP playing in the east at all from 1998-99 through 2002-03 and the fact that AI got his one over prime Shaq still leaves a funny taste.
 
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FORGET THE FACT THE KIDD IS JUST A WAY BETTER DISTRIBUTOR THAN LOWRY ON OFFENSE.... U DO REALIZE THAT OFFENSE IS ONLY 50% OF THE GAME, RIGHT? KIDD’S DEFENSE ALONE MAKES HIM BETTER THAN LOWRY- EVEN IF HE TURNED INTO SMUSH PARKER ON OFFENSE, STILL BETTER ON THE STRENGTH OF HIS DEFENSIVE PROWESS.
The difference in their respective defensive abilities isn't as large as you're making it out to be (yes, Kidd was the better defender, but PGs can only have so much impact on that end - it's not a 50/50 type thing). You must remember before Lowry's offensive improvement, he was primarily a defensive player (he was known for his playmaking/defense) - there's a reason why he was one of the most impactful defenders for Team USA in the last Olympics.


Kyle Lowry puts up stud numbers for USA Basketball
Donnellon: Kyle Lowry 'the best team player' on U.S. Olympic hoop squad

This is why you, and 98% of the folks in this thread aren't equipped enough to speak on this topic. Y'all nikkas are operating on nostalgia, and not watching enough tape.
 

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I’m aware that Kidd had a high basketball iq and all, but let’s not prop up taking those nets to the finals like it’s some incredible accomplishment. Yeah they sucked, but the rest of the conference was as bad as them and it was easily the worst that any conference has been for an extended time. In 2001-02 they went 52-30 to get the top seed in the conference and Detroit was he only other 50 win team at 50-32. Orlando led the conference in scoring at 100.5 per game. Nobody else averaged 100, and there were multiple teams that averaged under 90. 2002-03 was worse. Detroit was the top seed at 50-32. Milwaukee led the conference in scoring at 99.5 and there were 6 teams averaging under 93 points. The struggle ball was so strong that the heat managed to win 25 games while averaging 85.6 points as a team. Think about who the top players in the east were at that time period and what holes their games had and what holes those teams had too. The fact that those nets teams were getting out of the east shouldn’t be a career highlight for Kidd, but a mark of shame for the rest of the east :hhh:. In fact aside from Allen Iverson I’m pretty sure here wasn’t a past, present, or future MVP playing in the east at all from 1998-99 through 2002-03 and the fact that AI got his one over prime Shaq still leaves a funny taste.


OF COURSE THIS GENIUS WOULD TAKE THE LOWRY SIDE

#TRUEWOAT
 

Sccit

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The difference in their respective defensive abilities isn't as large as you're making it out to be (yes, Kidd was the better defender, but PGs can only have so much impact on that end - it's not a 50/50 type thing). You must remember before Lowry's offensive improvement, he was primarily a defensive player (he was known for his playmaking/defense) - there's a reason why he was one of the most impactful defenders for Team USA in the last Olympics.


Kyle Lowry puts up stud numbers for USA Basketball
Donnellon: Kyle Lowry 'the best team player' on U.S. Olympic hoop squad

This is why you, and 98% of the folks in this thread aren't equipped enough to speak on this topic. Y'all nikkas are operating on nostalgia, and not watching enough tape.


LOL BRO IVE WATCHED MY SHARE OF BOTH KIDD N LOWRY AND I CAN SAFELY SAY KIDD IS 100X THE DEFENDER LOWRY EVER WAS .. I DONT CARE ABOUT TEAM USA BULLSHIIT, THIS COMPARISON IS FLAT TERRIBLE N ITS NOT EVEN CLOSE. NOT DEROZAN=KOBE BAD, BUT ITS UP THERE.
 
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Sometimes you gotta concede the point, gil.
There's nothing to concede. Lowry had a better season last year than Kidd ever did. Even if you don't agree, it's still a realistic/reasonable position to hold.

I say this as someone who was the biggest Kidd fan as a young'n, and watched more Nets games than anyone on this board (both in person, and on tape - even years after the fact - a few years ago I went back over tape and watched countless games of his). Not only have these dudes not watched the same amount of his game footage (let alone recently), but they've probably only watched a handful of Lowry's games every year - you, yourself, even admitted so.
 

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The difference in their respective defensive abilities isn't as large as you're making it out to be (yes, Kidd was the better defender, but PGs can only have so much impact on that end - it's not a 50/50 type thing). You must remember before Lowry's offensive improvement, he was primarily a defensive player (he was known for his playmaking/defense) - there's a reason why he was one of the most impactful defenders for Team USA in the last Olympics.


Kyle Lowry puts up stud numbers for USA Basketball
Donnellon: Kyle Lowry 'the best team player' on U.S. Olympic hoop squad

This is why you, and 98% of the folks in this thread aren't equipped enough to speak on this topic. Y'all nikkas are operating on nostalgia, and not watching enough tape.

you still in here throwing windmills :mjlol:
 

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It's really not, because by that simple notion of him being a better offensive player (the side of the ball where the main ball-handler has the most impact), it shouldn't lead to everyone acting like it's an absurd take. I don't have an issue with folks disagreeing with me, I take issue with folks thinking that it's risible to suggest so.
In a vacuum sure, but Kidd at his peak was in the conversation for best pg in the league. Lowry has never been in that conversation, so while he was better offensively what did that translate to besides better shooting percentages? Kidd's teams overachieved with him as a #1 option. Lowry's have underachieved with him as a #2.

Kidd
9 All Defensive teams
5 All NBA 1st team
1 All NBA 2nd team

Lowry
1 All NBA 3rd team

Question, do you think Kidd would've gone to the Finals if he came up against a top-3 player OAT, in his prime?
Replace Lowry with Kidd on the Raptor's these past two years and no he wouldn't have beaten LeBron. This year?:ld: Maybe.
Let's flip it, does Lowry go to back to back Finals with those Nets squads? :patrice::usure:
 

ghostwriterx

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The difference in their respective defensive abilities isn't as large as you're making it out to be (yes, Kidd was the better defender, but PGs can only have so much impact on that end - it's not a 50/50 type thing). You must remember before Lowry's offensive improvement, he was primarily a defensive player (he was known for his playmaking/defense) - there's a reason why he was one of the most impactful defenders for Team USA in the last Olympics.


Kyle Lowry puts up stud numbers for USA Basketball
Donnellon: Kyle Lowry 'the best team player' on U.S. Olympic hoop squad

This is why you, and 98% of the folks in this thread aren't equipped enough to speak on this topic. Y'all nikkas are operating on nostalgia, and not watching enough tape.


We don't have numbers like this from Kidd's era though right?
 
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