The Coli Where we rank Kyle Lowry over Jason Kidd.. Scust @malta

[Ineedmoney504]

its silly to use the argument about Nets going to 2 Finals and Raps going to none. the x-factor is Lebron. take him away and Raps prob wouldve been in Finals 3x by now. lol. Nets wouldve never gotten past the Cavs of the past 3 years. but things dont work that way.

Kidd has had the better career without question. that was largely due to his hype coming out of HS/College. he got a much faster start in the pros. He is also taller and more athletic than Lowry which made him a better rebounder. His passing is what truly set him apart though. Lowry undersized and injury hampered.

if you plug Lowry in anywhere in Kidd's era or before he would be a great PG. when you look at what they did in comparison....its almost a trade off statistically. Lowry has been almost as good as Kidd in an era with much better PGs. I would say Lowry has been underrated and Kidd somewhat overrated, based on the success of those Nets teams during that period.

Put Lowry on that nets teams and they might not make the offs and damn sure not the number one seed.

The nets and suns swapped players and nets got 100x better overnight. The suns got worse.

Put Lowry on this nets team is he able to put dual IA, Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, t Mac, Vince Carter out east? Cause he isn’t a facilitator and would Be on a team where he would have to create every players shot for them.

That nets team team with Lowry definitely not going to the finals with him at pg.

Or they even better than the starbury nets teams? Probably not.

Now put prime kidd on this raps team and they way better, he would have multiple players that could create they own shot, and we seen his impact as a old man on the mavs team as a leader/defender/catch and shot player.

Old ass kidd guarded, kobe/bron/kd/Brandon Roy and as the primary perimeter defender, imagine if he was on a team better suited for his skill set(not having to be a scorer) how much better would he have been.

 

[Lakerman0834]

Put prime kidd on this squad and they’d be in the finals. Talking about weak eastern conference look at this years east and how trash it is. Boston’s 2 best players out, philly super young. And by regular season standards Lowry had the best team in east and still getting destroyed in second round.

 

[Voice of Reason]

And @Malta would be right. This version of Lowry is better than Kidd ever was.

 

[Mantis Toboggan M.D.]

Put Lowry on that nets teams and they might not make the offs and damn sure not the number one seed.

The nets and suns swapped players and nets got 100x better overnight. The suns got worse.

Put Lowry on this nets team is he able to put dual IA, Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, t Mac, Vince Carter out east? Cause he isn’t a facilitator and would Be on a team where he would have to create every players shot for them.

That nets team team with Lowry definitely not going to the finals with him at pg.

Or they even better than the starbury nets teams? Probably not.

Now put prime kidd on this raps team and they way better, he would have multiple players that could create they own shot, and we seen his impact as a old man on the mavs team as a leader/defender/catch and shot player.

Old ass kidd guarded, kobe/bron/kd/Brandon Roy and as the primary perimeter defender, imagine if he was on a team better suited for his skill set(not having to be a scorer) how much better would he have been.

You’re seriously trying to argue they wouldn’t make the playoffs in an era where 50-32 was the top seed? McGrady left the raptors for Orlando after 2000 and they peaked at 47 wins. McGrady never got Orlando out of the first round. The nets never ran into the sixers for one, and they won one total playoff series after 2001. The Celtics offense was awful during those years. Pretty sure it was between 15th and 20th at best. The bucks accomplished so much with Allen post 2001 that they sent him to Seattle maybe 2 years later for a washed up Gary Payton. It would be a stretch to call most of these teams good even. They all hovered between 40-46 wins for the most part.

You’re also disregarding how kidd couldn’t shoot the majority of his career too. He had ten postseasons shooting under 40% from the field and nine shooting under 33% from deep. He was a career 39% playoff shooter, same as Lowry is. While Kidd was an excellent defender, let’s not act like that 2011 Mavericks team was playing straight man to man defense. They ran a 2-3 zone where they rotated all their defenders. They weren’t asking kidd at that age to handle guys by himself for long stretches.

As for his play making, if teams don’t have to defend the point guard of the opposing team, then he’s hurting the offense no matter how good his passing or vision. Put peak kidd in today’s league and teams back 6-8 feet off him and dare him to shoot while clogging the paint. His team success with the nets was a product of how bad the east and the league in general was back then. Kidd shot 41.5% from the field and 19% from deep during the 2002 playoffs and the nets still won the east. It was just as bad in 2003. Those nets teams were easily the worst conference championship winning teams in the last 35 years. We need to stop acting like getting out of that east was some grand accomplishment. Most of those teams in the top half of its seeding would struggle to even sniff the playoffs today with how bad most of them were.

 

[surv2syn]

lowry is a consistent playoff choker who puts up numbers in the regular season. If your gonna look at stats lowry has "prettier" stats but you got to watch them play. Lowry wouldn't sniff an allstar game if he played during kidd's prime years, and if he made it he would be a replacement.

breh...I gotta be honest...the PG's today are better than they were in Kidd's era. top 4 teams in the West all have MVP candidate PG's. lol. then in the East has about 4-6 All Star level PG's. We could do a whole separate thread comparison with PG's in Kidd's prime and PG's in Lowry's prime. that 2002 run had some weak opposition. the best players they faced were Baron/Mashburn, Pierce/Walker, and Jermain Oneal and old ass Reggie Miller. when you think about it, much weaker than this year's conference.

 

[Ineedmoney504]

You’re seriously trying to argue they wouldn’t make the playoffs in an era where 50-32 was the top seed? McGrady left the raptors for Orlando after 2000 and they peaked at 47 wins. McGrady never got Orlando out of the first round. The nets never ran into the sixers for one, and they won one total playoff series after 2001. The Celtics offense was awful during those years. Pretty sure it was between 15th and 20th at best. The bucks accomplished so much with Allen post 2001 that they sent him to Seattle maybe 2 years later for a washed up Gary Payton. It would be a stretch to call most of these teams good even. They all hovered between 40-46 wins for the most part.

You’re also disregarding how kidd couldn’t shoot the majority of his career too. He had ten postseasons shooting under 40% from the field and nine shooting under 33% from deep. He was a career 39% playoff shooter, same as Lowry is. While Kidd was an excellent defender, let’s not act like that 2011 Mavericks team was playing straight man to man defense. They ran a 2-3 zone where they rotated all their defenders. They weren’t asking kidd at that age to handle guys by himself for long stretches.

As for his play making, if teams don’t have to defend the point guard of the opposing team, then he’s hurting the offense no matter how good his passing or vision. Put peak kidd in today’s league and teams back 6-8 feet off him and dare him to shoot while clogging the paint. His team success with the nets was a product of how bad the east and the league in general was back then. Kidd shot 41.5% from the field and 19% from deep during the 2002 playoffs and the nets still won the east. It was just as bad in 2003. Those nets teams were easily the worst conference championship winning teams in the last 35 years. We need to stop acting like getting out of that east was some grand accomplishment. Most of those teams in the top half of its seeding would struggle to even sniff the playoffs today with how bad most of them were.

Again answer the question putting Kyle on those nets team would he be able to out score the best iso player of that era out east (ai, Vince, Paul, ray, Mac) No he wouldn’t and he ain’t he a great passer so the rest of the team wouldn’t be getting any points either.

Imagine a offense of kittles, young Richard Jeff, Kenyon Martin, Jason Collin, Keith van Horne with Lowry at pg. terrible spacing and nobody to create the shoots for them. Kenyon or Richard couldn’t dribble and only was eating off Kidd’s pass for dunks early on. Kittles was a shooter and they allowed van Horne to iso every so often

And again act like Ben Simmons don’t exist and rondo isn’t still effective and kidd could shoot better then them and was a better passer and defender.

Is Lowry a Better scorer than Marbury and Steve Francis and baron davis? None of those guys were better than kidd even with they scoring abilities.

 

[Jerz]

If you think Lowry is anywhere near as good as Kidd.. You fail to realize his impact - outside the stat box. J Kidd is so much more on the floor than his numbers. He makes everyone perform better and not just bc of his passes

 

[Mantis Toboggan M.D.]

Again answer the question putting Kyle on those nets team would he be able to out score the best iso player of that era out east (ai, Vince, Paul, ray, Mac) No he wouldn’t and he ain’t he a great passer so the rest of the team wouldn’t be getting any points either.

Imagine a offense of kittles, young Richard Jeff, Kenyon Martin, Jason Collin, Keith van Horne with Lowry at pg. terrible spacing and nobody to create the shoots for them. Kenyon or Richard couldn’t dribble and only was eating off Kidd’s pass for dunks early on. Kittles was a shooter and they allowed van Horne to iso every so often

And again act like Ben Simmons don’t exist and rondo isn’t still effective and kidd could shoot better then them and was a better passer and defender.

Is Lowry a Better scorer than Marbury and Steve Francis and baron davis? None of those guys were better than kidd even with they scoring abilities.

They didn’t see the sixers in the playoffs so it doesn’t matter and aside from 2001 the sixers won one total playoff series. All that low efficiency iso ball didn’t get them anywhere. What’d marbury or francis accomplish again? In fact francis only even made the playoffs once anyway. Give me the guy who’s capable at scoring and is decent at distribution compared to the guy who can’t score. Imagine a 6’4 point guard who can’t shoot a jumper or finish at the rim in today’s league . Oh wait, there is one. His name is Ricky Rubio :laughingphil:. Now imagine said player as the best player on your team

 

[Ineedmoney504]

They didn’t see the sixers in the playoffs so it doesn’t matter and aside from 2001 the sixers won one total playoff series. All that low efficiency iso ball didn’t get them anywhere. What’d marbury or francis accomplish again? In fact francis only even made the playoffs once anyway. Give me the guy who’s capable at scoring and is decent at distribution compared to the guy who can’t score. Imagine a 6’4 point guard who can’t shoot a jumper or finish at the rim in today’s league . Oh wait, there is one. His name is Ricky Rubio :laughingphil:. Now imagine said player as the best player on your team

U dumb as shyt. Lowry won’t be remembered ever. He is the definition of a iso chucker who launches contested 3s crazy consistency and in the offs they never drop lol. Lowry would be worse than Harrison Barnes as a first option.

 

[Mantis Toboggan M.D.]

U dumb as shyt. Lowry won’t be remembered ever. He is the definition of a iso chucker who launches contested 3s crazy consistency and in the offs they never drop lol. Lowry would be worse than Harrison Barnes as a first option.

You’re stanning the WOAT era in nba history

 

[Ineedmoney504]

You’re stanning the WOAT era in nba history

Gorin dragic is a better first option than Lowry

 

[Mantis Toboggan M.D.]

Gorin dragic is a better first option than Lowry

Step your troll game up. Dragic and Harrison Barnes have won a combined 0 playoff series as the top player on their team. Lowry had Toronto two games from the finals. I’m not entertaining this debate any further with you. Early 2000’s eastern conference stan

 

[Ineedmoney504]

Step your troll game up. Dragic and Harrison Barnes have won a combined 0 playoff series as the top player on their team. Lowry had Toronto two games from the finals. I’m not entertaining this debate any further with you. Early 2000’s stan

Lowry has never been the first option on any team. wrong with u?

 

[NkrumahWasRight Is Wrong]

I'd take Dragic over Lowry same tier though

 

[killacal]

Lowry has never been the first option on any team. wrong with u?

Hes gonna die on this Hill

No one can admit being wrong these days

And they wanna call themselves men