2020 Democratic Primary Thread: Focus on House & Senate races

Copy Ninja

Copy Ninja

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King Kreole said:
Medicare for All vs. Public Option Proposals

Bernie folks bout to be mad as hell again :mjgrin:
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I looked at the link. Question to people who are more knowledgeable than i when it comes to taxes.

On that link under the section 'What would you have to spend on premiums' next to Sanders they have this description -
Workers would be required to pay a 4% premium on every dollar of income above $29,000 (for a family of four).
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which is consistent from what I've read on Bernie's website.

But under the section 'Does this plan raise middle class taxes' it has this next to Sanders -
Yes — increases payroll and income taxes on workers by as much as 26% to cover the cost.
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Can someone explain what this means?
 
richaveli83

richaveli83

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Based Lord Zedd said:
Voted Sanders yesterday. The senate primary looks like a mess.
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All week I've considered Sanders but I was impressed with Steyer last night at the debates. I don't like Royce West AT ALL. I don't know anything about the other candidates so I left the senate blank. I don't want to vote for someone I have no idea about. I pretty much thought West was running unopposed in the primary.

I had to register as a Democrat to vote today (I'm independent) and the lady at the poll gave me an invitation to the Harris County Democratic Party convention on the 21st. I might check it but I already had plans that weekend so I'm not sure.
 
King Kreole

King Kreole

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Rhakim said:
I'm just having to guess that some of y'all are young or haven't paid a lot of attention in previous administrations. Can you give an example of what you argue being a factor in a presidential administration...ever? Like, give me the example where the degree of detail within a candidate's plans told you information about a presidency that you didn't already know, or even foretold any meaningful information at all?

I already gave you one Obama example, I'll give you another. During the 2008 election Clinton criticized Obama repeatedly that he was just promising hope without detailed plans, said that her plans were better than his, It was one of her more frequent critiques, she even mocked him at times. And when Obama specifically promised a stimulus bill for when he entered office, there was no detailed plans and in fact Congressional aides wrote the bill. Yet Obama was an extremely careful, detail-oriented leader.
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You can afford to run a detail-light campaign of generalities and vague statements if you're just looking to be the steward of an already-running system like the vast majority of Presidents have been. You don't need to be an expert driver if you're just driving down a straight road with clear conditions. But this era we're in now isn't that. It's a 1 lane winding canyon road at night in a blizzard. Congress and the judiciary are fundamentally broken, and we're truly on the brink of irreparable destruction. This is the whole social theory that Liz and Bernie are running on. That we're at an inflection point that calls for bold, dramatic, progressive measures. We're looking to elect someone who will use the vast, complex, myriad of powers wielded by the executive branch to push in that direction as hard as possible. Details absolutely matter given this context of remaking the entire structure of the state and society, especially given that entrenched power and interests are inherently hostile to this very movement. M4A and GND would be the most consequential policies implemented in generations, transparency and detail is critical so we can both hold our leaders accountable and mark progress or failure. Obama was allowed to skate by as much as he did by the left precisely because, when compared to Liz, he filled in very few details during his campaign. There was a massive delta between what the left expected from Obama and what he delivered because he used "Hope and Change" to paper over the lack of details and promises. Bernie is doing the same thing with "Revolution" (to a lesser degree, he's been better on detailing executive actions). Liz is setting real parameters and avoiding the resentment and disappointment of the Obama years. Bernie is leaning into it.


Rhakim said:
It's just hard to take you seriously if you're really going to claim that Bernie doesn't understand the Senate.

Bernie's performance to date is the best indicator of how well he understands the political landscape. NONE of this shyt is getting passed by the current Senate with its current objectives, even if you flipped to Democratic control. NONE. The only way you get that shyt is by motivating the populace to support it to such a large degree that senators feel forced to go along. Medicare-for-all is up to 70% support now, forgiving student debt to 58%. That's on Bernie, and that sort of public mandate is the ONLY way any of it will ever get passed.
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I disagree. Bernie isn't an idiot, he knows the Senate, but that's not all I'm referring to when I talk about the political landscape. Bernie's refusal to come out definitively against the filibuster defies explanation for someone who understands this political landscape. Bernie's plan to enact M4A defies explanation for someone who understands this political landscape. The level of faith Bernie is placing on a revolution to immediately overthrow the political establishment defies explanation for someone who understands this political landscape. The only possible answer I can find is that he's just bullshytting for the sake of winning the primary. And I'm not even mad at that approach, but you don't get to have it both ways that Bernie is simultaneously the most visionary candidate and the most pragmatic. Liz got called a heretic by Bernie's supporters for being a realistic and pragmatic progressive.

I disagree that you can't get Liz's M4A public option through with Democratic control. Manchin is already on record as supporting a public option. Just because Bernie's maximalist vision can't feasibly be enacted doesn't mean other plans that contend with reality can't either. This is the nihilistic thinking that is created by people getting wrapped up in Bernie's rhetoric. It's an absurd attempt at downplaying Bernie's weakspots and actually does a disservice to how radical and transformative his agenda is.
 
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