2020 Democratic Primary Thread: Focus on House & Senate races

[afterlife2009]

I'm crying at this video and some of the posts made earlier in here. This sounds like someone who has no idea how to defend something she supposedly wrote. This won't stop her medicare for all critics from all angles just so yall know. Doesn't even mention anything about mental health in that long ass post lmao

I'm really dead at dtownrepp saying Bernie's payment plan is pie in the sky when the payment for this is more pie in the sky than anything I've ever seen. Part of it may be contingent on immigration reform, a wealth tax and overhauling the IRS.

The decision to go with a head tax rather than a payroll tax is all I need to know that it is to set it up for failure, blame Republicans for not passing then going "oh gee I tried."

It has so much stuffed into it that's meant to make it easy to block. It’s a plan that fear mongers about raising middle class taxes while... raising middle class taxes through a head tax. How about just be honest and sell to the people that it’s better to pay slightly higher public taxes and no premiums/deductibles/etc. The admission that she thinks people are too dumb to grasp the concept of their public taxes going up but their healthcare costs going down shouldn’t be glossed over either. Bernie isn’t hustling anyone.

When the Center for American Progess, a vehement opposer to single payer health care and who has taken loads of money from big pharma, is pushing your shyt it is a dub. And the Obama medicare guy Andy Slavitt is a family friend who co-founded some sleazy health care group called HealthAllies with Liz's daughter Amelia lol. Sorry I don't buy his spin

 

[No1]

I'm crying at this video and some of the posts made earlier in here. This sounds like someone who has no idea how to defend something she supposedly wrote. This won't stop her medicare for all critics from all angles just so yall know. Doesn't even mention anything about mental health in that long ass post lmao

I'm really dead at dtownrepp saying Bernie's payment plan is pie in the sky when the payment for this is more pie in the sky than anything I've ever seen. Part of it may be contingent on immigration reform, a wealth tax and overhauling the IRS.

The decision to go with a head tax rather than a payroll tax is all I need to know that it is to set it up for failure, blame Republicans for not passing then going "oh gee I tried."

It has so much stuffed into it that's meant to make it easy to block. It’s a plan that fear mongers about raising middle class taxes while... raising middle class taxes through a head tax. How about just be honest and sell to the people that it’s better to pay slightly higher public taxes and no premiums/deductibles/etc. The admission that she thinks people are too dumb to grasp the concept of their public taxes going up but their healthcare costs going down shouldn’t be glossed over either. Bernie isn’t hustling anyone.

When the Center for American Progess, a vehement opposer to single payer health care and who has taken loads of money from big pharma, is pushing your shyt it is a dub. And the Obama medicare guy Andy Slavitt is a family friend who co-founded some sleazy health care group called HealthAllies with Liz's daughter Amelia lol. Sorry I don't buy his spin

You’re right on all accounts.

 

[Berniewood Hogan]

 

[King Kreole]

I'm crying at this video and some of the posts made earlier in here. This sounds like someone who has no idea how to defend something she supposedly wrote. This won't stop her medicare for all critics from all angles just so yall know. Doesn't even mention anything about mental health in that long ass post lmao

I'm really dead at dtownrepp saying Bernie's payment plan is pie in the sky when the payment for this is more pie in the sky than anything I've ever seen. Part of it may be contingent on immigration reform, a wealth tax and overhauling the IRS.

The decision to go with a head tax rather than a payroll tax is all I need to know that it is to set it up for failure, blame Republicans for not passing then going "oh gee I tried."

It has so much stuffed into it that's meant to make it easy to block. It’s a plan that fear mongers about raising middle class taxes while... raising middle class taxes through a head tax. How about just be honest and sell to the people that it’s better to pay slightly higher public taxes and no premiums/deductibles/etc. The admission that she thinks people are too dumb to grasp the concept of their public taxes going up but their healthcare costs going down shouldn’t be glossed over either. Bernie isn’t hustling anyone.

When the Center for American Progess, a vehement opposer to single payer health care and who has taken loads of money from big pharma, is pushing your shyt it is a dub. And the Obama medicare guy Andy Slavitt is a family friend who co-founded some sleazy health care group called HealthAllies with Liz's daughter Amelia lol. Sorry I don't buy his spin

Bro...none of this shyt is even getting close to being allowed on the table when either President Bernie or President Warren starts negotiating healthcare. Bernie's plan is set up for failure just as much as any M4A plan is. It's why he can handwave away the massive shortages in funding by just saying a middle-class tax hike will take care of it. None of this shyt is designed to be implemented because Bernie and Warren aren't idiots. It's not happening in the immediate future. So getting bent out of shape about a head tax vs poll tax is some in the weeds shyt.

What's useful about the M4A debate and rhetoric between Bernie and Warren isn't analyzing which plan is better designed to impossibly pass an utterly intransigent Congress, it's to get some insight into Bernie and Warren's priorities and political ideology. There is a burden that must be levied upon some group to get universal healthcare done, Warren wants it to be the business class, Bernie wants it to be the middle class. There are pros and cons to both approaches. Her plan is also yet another piece of evidence that she's a deeply intersectional thinker as she inextricably connects her healthcare push with labor rights, immigration rights, antitrust, reigning in the military-industrial-complex, and collapsing the wealth gap. As long as they both stay committed to the principles of M4A, the crossed t's and dotted i's aren't particularly relevant.

What Warren did here - or at least is attempting to do - is flip the entire media narrative around M4A, how pie-in-the-sky it is, and who will be asked to pay the burden. She used her brand as the most serious thinker to give air cover to M4A from these critics. She drowned them in detail. She did the work. It's why Ady Barkan and Pramilya Jayapal were effusive in their praise of Warren's plan.







So chill, this helps Bernie as well.

 

[A.R.$]

I'm crying at this video and some of the posts made earlier in here. This sounds like someone who has no idea how to defend something she supposedly wrote. This won't stop her medicare for all critics from all angles just so yall know. Doesn't even mention anything about mental health in that long ass post lmao

I'm really dead at dtownrepp saying Bernie's payment plan is pie in the sky when the payment for this is more pie in the sky than anything I've ever seen. Part of it may be contingent on immigration reform, a wealth tax and overhauling the IRS.

The decision to go with a head tax rather than a payroll tax is all I need to know that it is to set it up for failure, blame Republicans for not passing then going "oh gee I tried."

It has so much stuffed into it that's meant to make it easy to block. It’s a plan that fear mongers about raising middle class taxes while... raising middle class taxes through a head tax. How about just be honest and sell to the people that it’s better to pay slightly higher public taxes and no premiums/deductibles/etc. The admission that she thinks people are too dumb to grasp the concept of their public taxes going up but their healthcare costs going down shouldn’t be glossed over either. Bernie isn’t hustling anyone.

When the Center for American Progess, a vehement opposer to single payer health care and who has taken loads of money from big pharma, is pushing your shyt it is a dub. And the Obama medicare guy Andy Slavitt is a family friend who co-founded some sleazy health care group called HealthAllies with Liz's daughter Amelia lol. Sorry I don't buy his spin

Breh,
You are reading way too much into this. None of these plans are going pass. It is just a starting point for the negotiations. The main objective was to cut off the talking points that it couldn’t be paid for. She accomplished that. If she wins, Bernie and Jayapal will be the point people in Congress to pass healthcare (unless they get cabinet positions).

I don’t get you saying she had no idea how to defend it. I personally loved how she defended the proposal. She throughly explained her position, and the way she flip it on Biden was brilliant. And I’m someone who was very critical of the way Liz was talking about M4A. I thought her M4A answers were terrible in the last debate..

 

[A.R.$]

I seen a lot of this online. There is literally nothing Liz can do or say for some people. They just not going to like her. I’m especially seeing it from the online/YouTube Bernie supporters. A lot of Bernie supporters jumped out the window early, by saying it was a 10 year implementation, when the 10 years was only about financing. Then when Jayapal stated that they were spreading false information they had to fallback.

Look I understand trusting Bernie more on healthcare. He is the one who made M4A a serious topic within the Democratic Party. I personally think he is the best when it comes to healthcare, besides Jayapal. But let’s not shyt on someone who is fighting for the right policy just because she is not your preferred candidate.

 

[A.R.$]

Bro...none of this shyt is even getting close to being allowed on the table when either President Bernie or President Warren starts negotiating healthcare. Bernie's plan is set up for failure just as much as any M4A plan is. It's why he can handwave away the massive shortages in funding by just saying a middle-class tax hike will take care of it. None of this shyt is designed to be implemented because Bernie and Warren aren't idiots. It's not happening in the immediate future. So getting bent out of shape about a head tax vs poll tax is some in the weeds shyt.

What's useful about the M4A debate and rhetoric between Bernie and Warren isn't analyzing which plan is better designed to impossibly pass an utterly intransigent Congress, it's to get some insight into Bernie and Warren's priorities and political ideology. There is a burden that must be levied upon some group to get universal healthcare done, Warren wants it to be the business class, Bernie wants it to be the middle class. There are pros and cons to both approaches. Her plan is also yet another piece of evidence that she's a deeply intersectional thinker as she inextricably connects her healthcare push with labor rights, immigration rights, antitrust, reigning in the military-industrial-complex, and collapsing the wealth gap. As long as they both stay committed to the principles of M4A, the crossed t's and dotted i's aren't particularly relevant.

What Warren did here - or at least is attempting to do - is flip the entire media narrative around M4A, how pie-in-the-sky it is, and who will be asked to pay the burden. She used her brand as the most serious thinker to give air cover to M4A from these critics. She drowned them in detail. She did the work. It's why Ady Barkan and Pramilya Jayapal were effusive in their praise of Warren's plan.







So chill, this helps Bernie as well.

Perfectly said. I wish I would of saw this post before I wrote my long ass reply.

 

[wire28]

I seen a lot of this online. There is literally nothing Liz can do or say for some people. They just not going to like her. I’m especially seeing it from the online/YouTube Bernie supporters. A lot of Bernie supporters jumped out the window early, by saying it was a 10 year implementation, when the 10 years was only about financing. Then when Jayapal stared that they were spreading false information they had to fallback.

Look I understand trusting Bernie more on healthcare. He is the one who made M4A a serious topic within the Democratic Party. I personally think he is the best when it comes to healthcare, besides Jayapal. But let’s not shyt on someone who is fighting for the right policy just because she is not your preferred candidate.

Unfortunately it’s all they know. That’s why I can’t take them seriously. It’s always been more about the man than the ideology for them. As we continue to go deeper into the political season this will become more painfully apparent, again.

 

[A.R.$]

Unfortunately it’s all they know. That’s why I can’t take them seriously. It’s always been more about the man than the ideology for them. As we continue to go deeper into the political season this will become more painfully apparent, again.

I definitively have talked to some good Bernie supporters who are not on that bullshyt. But most of them I have met offline in real life. I don’t think most real life Bernie supporters are like that, but I agree with you about most of the online supporters.

 

[afterlife2009]

I seen a lot of this online. There is literally nothing Liz can do or say for some people. They just not going to like her. I’m especially seeing it from the online/YouTube Bernie supporters. A lot of Bernie supporters jumped out the window early, by saying it was a 10 year implementation, when the 10 years was only about financing. Then when Jayapal stared that they were spreading false information they had to fallback.

Look I understand trusting Bernie more on healthcare. He is the one who made M4A a serious topic within the Democratic Party. I personally think he is the best when it comes to healthcare, besides Jayapal. But let’s not shyt on someone who is fighting for the right policy just because she is not your preferred candidate.

Information also was being spread because Warren called medicare for all a "long term goal" four times in her medium article. It should be addressed from the jump, not clarified hours in a tweet from someone that is not Liz. And we still don't know the year yet other than a few tweets from random journos



Making the claim that she's the "only primary campaign to release a detailed plan to pay for M4A" is nuts. Idk how you can watch the first minute of that video and think she looks anything other than a deer in headlights. Who's shytting on anyone? The entire blue check wonk brigade is fawning over it and some people are pushing back. This is politics and who gets resources to live lol. Democratic party ghouls like Neera Tanden should not be backing your health care plan that's all I'll say. People want serious commitments

Tying it to Pentagon spending, IRS overhauling and a bunch of other questionable technocratic schemes being passed is nuts. And again her health care plan makes no mention of mental health therefore it's not exactly like Bernie or Pramila's

@King Kreole I saw Pramila and Ady's posts. Salute to them obviously but it's not black and white and I don't agree with their framing on this issue. Calling it the "greatest piece of public policy jiu-jitsu that I have ever seen" is bullshyt spin and trying to make her the champion of the issue is nuts when she's been running the longest out of anybody. Sorry no one is buying that.

Ady is a hero but(Liz Jaff) the person who runs his foundation/Twitter is not and was hating on medicare for all during the 2015 debates in old tweets so I have my reservations with her.

 

[A.R.$]

Information also was being spread because Warren called medicare for all a "long term goal" four times in her medium article. It should be addressed from the jump, not clarified hours in a tweet from someone that is not Liz. And we still don't know the year yet other than a few tweets from random journos



Making the claim that she's the "only primary campaign to release a detailed plan to pay for M4A" is nuts. Idk how you can watch the first minute of that video and think she looks anything other than a deer in headlights. Who's shytting on anyone? The entire blue check wonk brigade is fawning over it and some people are pushing back. This is politics and who gets resources to live lol. Democratic party ghouls like Neera Tanden should not be backing your health care plan that's all I'll say. People want serious commitments

Tying it to Pentagon spending, IRS overhauling and a bunch of other questionable technocratic schemes being passed is nuts. And again her health care plan makes no mention of mental health therefore it's not exactly like Bernie or Pramila's

I never said that. You are confusing me with another poster. I have clearly stated on several occasions that Bernie is the best when it comes to healthcare.

She didn’t look like a deer in the headlights to me. I think she did a great job in flipping the framing of M4A.

Breh,
Are you seriously going tell me that hardcore online Bernie supporters haven’t been going out of there way to shyt on Liz? They have erased her entire history of standing up to big money interest. If you listen to them you would think she was a republican, then switched to becoming a Democrat out of nowhere, and then became a senator. I’m not saying Bernie don’t get hit with unfair attacks because he do. It is obvious the establishment/mainstream media hates him. But that is not Liz fault. The establishment likes Liz better than Bernie, but they don’t love her either. Why do you think she wasn’t able to run The CFPB when she is the won who created it? They don’t like the fact that she been fighting the banks since the mid 2000s. I think the anger that some of Bernie supporters have towards Liz is misdirected.

 

[the next guy]

Lesson from Beto is that just because youre good on racial issues doesnt make you all that...

 

[the next guy]

 

[Worthless Loser]

Kamala bae slowly closing up shop so she can support Big Boy Biden in hopes for being appointed Attorney General.

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

Hmm. So Liz’ plan wants to make employer contributions to private insurance for their workers go to M4A instead. That would unfairly penalize good employers who currently pay generously for better insurance plans (like mine) and force them to essentially subsidize employers who give their workers cheap shytty healthcare plans.

And it uses a flat head tax instead of a payroll tax, so a worker making 30k and a worker making 200k pay the same amount in taxes for it. Employers would probably just avoid this by hire more contractors to keep from paying it, then the Medicare contribution would have to go up to maintain revenue, which would lead to more outsourcing work to contractors.

Rest of the cost would be paid for a stock transaction fee, somehow increasing the funding of the IRS so that they generate revenue, and project new incomes from immigration reform. I’m fine with the transaction fee but I don’t know how the fukk you’re supposed to reform the IRS and immigration as part of a healthcare bill. Wtf?

Liz is cool with me but this just exemplifies why I don’t understand why anyone with left wing politics would support her over Bernie.
I have heard from the Liz supporters here that the reason to vote for her is that she is more technocratically-skilled when it comes to drafting and implementing legislation than Bernie. Well this doesn’t support that premise.

And it comes after her going back to the drawing board just because she’s terrified of just saying under a robust effective M4A program would increase middle class income taxes despite being offset by savings. So she created a worse plan that penalizes good employers, implements a regressive flat head tax that puts a disproportionate employer tax burden on lower paid workers, allows easy evasion by outsourcing/contracting and is supposedly paid for by improbable IRS restructuring and comprehensive immigration reform. And when it’s pointed out that Bernie’s M4A is much more sensible, Warren supporters response is “Well neither of them are gonna get M4A passed so who cares?”

I thought the reason to support Warren was because she’s this wonk-supreme who has a plan for everything? Now it’s who cares about the details?