2020 Democratic Primary Thread: Focus on House & Senate races

[NkrumahWasRight Is Wrong]

Moderate vs centrist definition discussion is interesting

Id probably say on the spectrum from left to right its moderate dems-->centrist-->moderate repubs

 

[A.R.$]

Neither Carter nor Kennedy wanted single payer in the late 70’s. Kennedy was pushing for an individual mandate and Carter didn’t even want that. Kennedy proposed single payer around 1970 but had been off that by the Carter presidency.

I don’t see what’s wrong with a debate on the best way to implement single payer.

I also don’t understand Warren supporters touting her brilliance at policy, then when valid criticisms of her magnum opus legislative plan are presented, saying shut up and stop complaining about details...especially when her whole campaign messaging is centered around her touting her technocratic genius.

Ted Kennedy still wanted single payer in the late 70s. He introduced single payer legislation in 71. Nixon was the one pushing the individual mandate. Kennedy, and Nixon couldn’t make a deal because Kennedy wouldn't compromise. Kennedy was still pushing single payer as late as 77. In 77 he stated he would compromise with Carter, but then went back on this promise in 79.

Carter campaigned on a single payer plan (however he left himself with some wiggle room), but backed off of it once he got elected, and initially didn’t want to do a big healthcare bill.

Carter proposed a national insurance plan in 79 that would of been similar to a public option. Kennedy opposed the bill because he still wanted single payer even though he agreed to change his single payer bill in 77 to work with carter. This is one of the reasons Kennedy primaried Carter in 1980.

If they didn’t do their petty infighting we would of had a public option at a minimal, and probably single payer by now.

 

[A.R.$]

Neither Carter nor Kennedy wanted single payer in the late 70’s. Kennedy was pushing for an individual mandate and Carter didn’t even want that. Kennedy proposed single payer around 1970 but had been off that by the Carter presidency.

I don’t see what’s wrong with a debate on the best way to implement single payer.

I also don’t understand Warren supporters touting her brilliance at policy, then when valid criticisms of her magnum opus legislative plan are presented, saying shut up and stop complaining about details...especially when her whole campaign messaging is centered around her touting her technocratic genius.

I think she is brilliant when it comes to financial policy. I think she is good but not brilliant in most other areas. I have repeatedly stated that I think Bernie is better on healthcare than Liz.

I think people are missing the big picture. It is not about Liz or Bernie personally. It’s is about pushing forward progressive policies. Bernie being critical of Liz’s M4A plan is a political mistake. Paramila Jayapal understands this, that is why she came to Liz defense, even though her plan is more expansive than Bernie/Liz plan.

What is going to happen is all of the other candidates are going to unite against M4A. Bernie and Liz are going to be infighting about of to pay for it, and the average person is not going to understand the details. The average person is not going to understand the difference of a head tax vs a payroll tax. What they are going to see is the moderates having a clear united message, and Liz and Bernie having a disjointed message. It is going to look like supporters of M4A can’t even agree on it.

What Bernie should of said is I will let Liz explain her funding plan, here is how I plan to pay for it.

 

[No1]

Ted Kennedy still wanted single payer in the late 70s. He introduced single payer legislation in 71. Nixon was the one pushing the individual mandate. Kennedy, and Nixon couldn’t make a deal because Kennedy wouldn't compromise. Kennedy was still pushing single payer as late as 77. In 77 he stated he would compromise with Carter, but then went back on this promise in 79.

Carter campaigned on a single payer plan (however he left himself with some wiggle room), but backed off of it once he got elected, and initially didn’t want to do a big healthcare bill.

Carter proposed a national insurance plan in 79 that would of been similar to a public option. Kennedy opposed the bill because he still wanted single payer even though he agreed to change his single payer bill in 77 to work with carter. This is one of the reasons Kennedy primaried Carter in 1980.

If they didn’t do their petty infighting we would of had a public option at a minimal, and probably single payer by now.

Carter should have just passed Kennedy’s bill. He just lacked political awareness. But that was his flaw the entire time. Kennedy did later regret not just passing the Nixon bill.

 

[A.R.$]

Carter should have just passed Kennedy’s bill. He just lacked political awareness. But that was his flaw the entire time. Kennedy did later regret not just passing the Nixon bill.

Facts. They both were being petty, but Carter should of at least attempted to pass Kennedy bill, then compromise once it was clear it wasn’t going to pass.

 

[No1]

Moderate and centrists are different groupings.

Moderates are the people who exist in between centrists and leftists.

Deifning them incorrectly doesn't make you right.

You kind of just created this out of nowhere. This is not how it is used in most conversations.

As for swing voters, the largest group concerning something like Medicare for all is basically white guys that economically left but culturally right. Basically them dudes who feel left behind and are privileged as fukk.

 

[Warren Moon]

I think she is brilliant when it comes to financial policy. I think she is good but not brilliant in most other areas. I have repeatedly stated that I think Bernie is better on healthcare than Liz.

I think people are missing the big picture. It is not about Liz or Bernie personally. It’s is about pushing forward progressive policies. Bernie being critical of Liz’s M4A plan is a political mistake. Paramila Jayapal understands this, that is why she came to Liz defense, even though her plan is more expansive than Bernie/Liz plan.

What is going to happen is all of the other candidates are going to unite against M4A. Bernie and Liz are going to be infighting about of to pay for it, and the average person is not going to understand the details. The average person is not going to understand the difference of a head tax vs a payroll tax. What they are going to see is the moderates having a clear united message, and Liz and Bernie having a disjointed message. It is going to look like supporters of M4A can’t even agree on it.

What Bernie should of said is I will let Liz explain her funding plan, here is how I plan to pay for it.

Why do u think Liz isnt doing well in battleground states?

 

[King Kreole]

This is stupid as fukk. Nobody has “smoke” for Liz. We just think there’s a better way to do M4A.

You Warren stans need to get your narrative straight.

Her whole campaign is centered around her being a technocrat supreme. Then she puts out a plan that is very wanting from a wonk perspective. Some other progressives raise valid criticisms and offer what they think are better proposed solutions and you tell us to shut up and get in line.

Warren stan: Liz just dropped the GOAT M4A plan!

Logical human being: I don’t know. The tax distribution is regressive and a head tax can be avoided easily. Maybe we should have payroll tax? I have some other concerns about its workability as well.

Warren stan: No. The plan is perfect. How dare you critique her infinite wonk wisdom?

Logical human being: Nah I think it’s better than what we have, but there are some issues. For one, she doesn’t sound like its urgent. It may take years before...

Warren stan: BERNIE SYCOPHANT!

"Her whole campaign is centered around her being a technocrat supreme" is some bullshyt framing that Bernie stans made up to widen artificial divisions between Bernie and Liz. Almost every single one of her campaign speeches is filled with calls for civic engagement and the masses rising up and exerting people power. Her theory of change is her pushing from the inside while activists and the public pull from the outside. She constantly says she can't do this alone and bigs up the grassroots. But y'all always leave that part out because you wish Bernie had a monopoly on calls for grassroots engagement

 

[No1]

Facts. They both were being petty, but Carter should of at least attempted to pass Kennedy bill, then compromise once it was clear it wasn’t going to pass.

I wouldn’t call it petty. Carter lied about supporting single payer and Kennedy was up against him in polls by 2-1. If not for war time issues, he would’ve won the primary and passed the single payer bill (or at least a public option) It was a rational political calculation. He also had no choice because the entire labor movement was behind it and they would not stand for anything less. Carter had the architect of the great society quit his administration over his refusal to come up with a real plan. He was a free market clintonite policy wise back then. Democrats never expected him to win.

 

[A.R.$]

I wouldn’t call it petty. Carter lied about supporter single payer and Kennedy was up against him in polls by 2-1. If not for war time issues, he would’ve won the primary and passed the single payer bill (or at least a public option) It was a rational political calculation. He also had no choice because the entire labor movement was behind it and they would not stand for anything less. Carter had the architect of the great society quit his administration over his refusal to come up with a real plan. He was a free market clintonite policy wise back then. Democrats never expected him to win.

Fair enough. I think Carter is a great post president, but could of did a lot more when he was actually president. I think Ted Kennedy would of done a lot better in the 1980 election than Carter. Carter had little to no charisma. That didn’t matter in 76 because Ford had even less charisma than Carter. Reagan was a different animal. Ted Kennedy might of still loss, but I think he would of had a better chance.

 

[Pressure]

You kind of just created this out of nowhere. This is not how it is used in most conversations.

As for swing voters, the largest group concerning something like Medicare for all is basically white guys that economically left but culturally right. Basically them dudes who feel left behind and are privileged as fukk.

It's a more accurate portrayal. moderate presidential candidates aren't running on policy positions that crossover with the republican party.

Dems are still left of center.

Republicans have moved further right.


Challenge, what major policies are

 

[A.R.$]

Why do u think Liz isnt doing well in battleground states?

I didn’t say she isn’t going to win them. Or are you asking me that as a fact, because you think she can’t win them?

 

[King Kreole]

What Bernie should of said is I will let Liz explain her funding plan, here is how I plan to pay for it.

This is exactly what he should have said, but he can't because the man doesn't even have a plan to pay for it yet but sees fit to start popping off against the only one out there

Liz never pulls shyt like this. Not when she was struggling down there in the single digits, and not now as she's surging into the lead. She's running her own race, not tearing down her fellow progressives to get ahead.

 

[Warren Moon]

I didn’t say she isn’t going to win them. Or are you asking me that as a fact, because you think she can’t win them?

I don’t think in her current state she has a chance. Voters there don’t like her at all

 

[JMurder]

hillary had the most progressive nominee platform in history

The Hillary problem I'm referring to is her extreme unpopularity outside of the left wing (and even within the left wing)