2020 Democratic Primary Thread: Focus on House & Senate races

[King Kreole]

Are we serious here?

Be a “progressive” and support regressive tax structures, brehs. Do you support Neal Boortz Fair Tax too?

Believe it or not there are many private businesses that are far more generous to their employees with health insurance than others.

Wal-Mart gives its workers shytty insurance plans. Some businesses such as the one I work for spends a lot more money on the dollar to get their workers plans that offer better coverage. All the more reason why it’s dumb to make them all pay their current contribution to M4A.

We're talking about an EMPLOYER-SIDE TAX. Asking businesses to pay taxes is not the same thing as asking employees to pay taxes. This conflation is a long-term project of the conservative right to make sure the left cannot ask businesses to contribute more. It's trickle-down economics and the "logic" behind the Trump tax cut.

We see this employer-employee difference when comparing Bernie and Liz's plan. Bernie has said he wants to levy an employee-side tax to pay for M4A. Liz wants businesses to pay for M4A. So unless you're stanning for the right-wing "corporations are people" angle, then this is not a regressive tax structure on actual people. It is, in fact, highly progressive because the only people paying more for M4A under Liz's plan are the wealthy through an additional wealth tax. There is no tax increase on the working class.

Now, if we're concerned about unfair advantages between private businesses, then we need to abandon M4A. Under Bernie's plan where the costs are shifted onto the working class, good businesses, like the one you work for, that have been offering good health care plans will also lose that competitive differentiator. Bad employers with shytty plans like Wal-Mart would not face consequences for pushing their shytty healthcare plans because the whole healthcare issue is removed from consideration. It equalizes bad and good employers when it comes to healthcare.

Looking at those two graphs, I can see pros and cons for both approaches. Under the payroll tax, there is less of an impediment to acquiring low-wage workers, but there is a heavy incentive to keep worker wages down because the taxes you pay rise exponentially the more your workers make. Under the head tax, it's more costly to acquire low-wage workers, but there's no disincentive to increasing the wages once you hire them.

 

[Warren Moon]

I didn’t say Obama was a progress. I stated he ran the country as moderate, but campaigned as a progressive. Obama centered his campaign around being against the Iraq War. He stated he would meet with dictators without preconditions, which was radical at that time. He railed against bad trade deals like NAFTA and trade with China. He promised to close Gitmo with his first year. He vowed to ban lobbyists from his administration. It was Black people and White progressives that voted for Obama in 08. Hillary got almost all of the moderate vote.

Idk anyone who would call Obama a progressive when he ran. I’m fact he’s the only one who calls progressives on their bullshyt in trying to break up the Democratic Party Barack Obama worries about progressives' 'rigidity' leading to party infighting - CNNPolitics

 

[Warren Moon]

We're talking about an EMPLOYER-SIDE TAX. Asking businesses to pay taxes is not the same thing as asking employees to pay taxes. This conflation is a long-term project of the conservative right to make sure the left cannot ask businesses to contribute more. It's trickle-down economics and the "logic" behind the Trump tax cut.

We see this employer-employee difference when comparing Bernie and Liz's plan. Bernie has said he wants to levy an employee-side tax to pay for M4A. Liz wants businesses to pay for M4A. So unless you're stanning for the right-wing "corporations are people" angle, then this is not a regressive tax structure on actual people. It is, in fact, highly progressive because the only people paying more for M4A under Liz's plan are the wealthy through an additional wealth tax. There is no tax increase on the working class.

Now, if we're concerned about unfair advantages between private businesses, then we need to abandon M4A. Under Bernie's plan where the costs are shifted onto the working class, good businesses, like the one you work for, that have been offering good health care plans will also lose that competitive differentiator. Bad employers with shytty plans like Wal-Mart would not face consequences for pushing their shytty healthcare plans because the whole healthcare issue is removed from consideration. It equalizes bad and good employers when it comes to healthcare.

Looking at those two graphs, I can see pros and cons for both approaches. Under the payroll tax, there is less of an impediment to acquiring low-wage workers, but there is a heavy incentive to keep worker wages down because the taxes you pay rise exponentially the more your workers make. Under the head tax, it's more costly to acquire low-wage workers, but there's no disincentive to increasing the wages once you hire them.

How is Medicare for all going to help you @King Kreole ? You canvassing for warren right now?

 

[Warren Moon]

I like Liz for other reasons besides healthcare. She predicted the housing crisis years before it happened. This is when most economists, and the media was saying how great the economy was. She predicted how the bankruptcy bill would hurt the average American, and pointed out the corruption in it. She been in the fronts lines with consumer protections. After all the deregulation Trump has done, I think we are headed for another economic collapse. I think Liz by far has the best record on financial issues, and trust her the most if this happens.

The cfp is great.

The one question I can never get any warren fans to answer.

If elected. What do you believe her two top priorities are that she will get done? Just name two.

 

[King Kreole]

Its a tax on employers that will be funded by putting what are essentially premiums on the employees. And because its virtually a flat tax, the burden will fall on low income earners disproportionately. Changing the financing from a percentage point to a dollar amount to avoid it being labeled as a tax was a huge mistake since the payout per income earner looks to be extremely regressive.

This is not an inevitability. We're talking about a radical reformation of the entire employee-employer healthcare paradigm. There will be savings for these businesses, and Liz has added incentives to push those savings to the employees instead of the coffers of businesses. Bernie has faced this argument a lot and responded well too.

As I mentioned in my previous posts, there are pros and cons to progressive vs flat employer taxes in this case. And the whole point of this for Warren wasn't to avoid raising taxes, it was to avoid raising taxes on the middle/working class. One of her key signatures is a tax hike on the wealthy. This M4A funding plan is definitely a tax, it's just one on directly on businesses as opposed to directly on working people.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

He backtracked and ran on civil unions.

TIMELINE: Tracking Barack Obama’s Position On Marriage Equality

Yeah, in order to win.

Are you stupid?

Some of y'all kids who weren't there forget George Bush literally ran his reelection on basically hating gay people.

 

[King Kreole]

How is Medicare for all going to help you @King Kreole ? You canvassing for warren right now?

I like living in a society where people aren't dying of easily preventable diseases and ailments. I believe the current healthcare system is both a moral crime and horribly inefficient. I would much prefer my tax dollars going to giving the people around me quality healthcare instead of lining the pockets of the military industrial complex amongst other horrible institutions.

And of course I'm canvassing for Warren, as well as doing voter registration drives. Bare minimum.

 

[Warren Moon]

I like living in a society where people aren't dying of easily preventable diseases and ailments. I believe it's the current healthcare system is both a moral crime and horribly inefficient. I would much prefer my tax dollars going to giving the people around me quality healthcare instead of lining the pockets of the military industrial complex amongst other horrible institutions.

And of course I'm canvassing for Warren, as well as doing voter registration drives. Bare minimum.

Where at

 

[A.R.$]

Idk anyone who would call Obama a progressive when he ran. I’m fact he’s the only one who calls progressives on their bullshyt in trying to break up the Democratic Party Barack Obama worries about progressives' 'rigidity' leading to party infighting - CNNPolitics

This is from 2019. I’m talking about 08. Also his own team try to say he was a progressive president (even though he wasn’t) here is David Axelrod

I disagree with him. I think Obama was definitely a moderate president. But, his campaign was progressive for that time.

 

[Warren Moon]

Yeah, in order to win.

Are you stupid?

Some of y'all kids who weren't there forget George Bush literally ran his reelection on basically hating gay people.

Dont forget what we're talking about. if obama was progressive. he wasn't progressive on that and most issues he ran on?

 

[Oville]

Because Bernie's bill is bullshyt.

The ACA is like 900+ pages. Bernie's is like...40/50? and there's a whole other Jayapal bill out there.

Bernie even co-opted John Conyers Medicare for All bill!

What Rep. John Conyers’s sweeping single-payer health care bill would actually do

They all staked out positions on a progressive piece of legislation that would never pass. Stop acting so politically naive.

Dude first of all the past 5 years all your centrist neo-liberal ass has done is preach that such and such isn't possible because its to left. Well during that time the whole entire policy platform has shifted left. The problem with your insight and that of the conventional wisdom of the Democratic establishment is that they tried to coddle to "moderate" Republicans rather than growing and responding to the fervor in their base which by the numbers far outweighs anything they can get out of moderate Republicans who have never been a lock to vote Dem anyway.

Aside from that, polls have shown that even among Trump voters they prefer Bernie over any of the other establishment Dems. Reason for this is best expressed by what kyle kulinski said on Joe Rogan recently. The divide isn't so much about liberals and conservatives but about elitism and populism. Trump won in part, cuz at least on the economy and labor issues he ran left of Hillary. People want big changes not tinkering.

Your whole perspective of shytting on Bernie's bill for the number of pages it has to the ACA is a perfect example of how blinded you are by surface level details over substance. A plan like the ACA that tinkers within the system by its nature is going to need to be drawn out longer due to having to find ways to split hairs here and there. Medicare For All simplifies the system which is one of the benefits of a single payer system. How many pages you need to say your going to transition from private insurance to publicity funded care within four years and we will fund it primarily through a percentage of the income employees make. All those pages Obama wrote and he still couldn't get 30 million people ensured or negotiate with pharmaceutical companies over drug prices.

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

I like Liz for other reasons besides healthcare. She predicted the housing crisis years before it happened. This is when most economists, and the media was saying how great the economy was. She predicted how the bankruptcy bill would hurt the average American, and pointed out the corruption in it. She been in the fronts lines with consumer protections. After all the deregulation Trump has done, I think we are headed for another economic collapse. I think Liz by far has the best record on financial issues, and trust her the most if this happens.

I agree, that’s why I think Young Bern should make her his chief economic advisor and Treasury Secretary.

 

[Warren Moon]

This is from 2019. I’m talking about 08. Also his own team try to say he was a progressive president (even though he wasn’t) here is David Axelrod

I disagree with him. I think Obama was definitely a moderate president. But, his campaign was progressive for that time.

I know many moderates and progressives that say he was a moderate. If anything this speaks to why Obama won. He was able to convince some people he was moderate and others he was progressive. Perfect candidate for the party.

Bidens voting record has many progressive votes "ON RECORD" once the field is wittled down. He will be able to show that but doesn't need to yet.

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

Where at

The Caucasus mountains.

 

[Warren Moon]

Trump ran the most explicitly pro-black campaign in modern Republican history.

is that what they're saying in Serbia?