Alright so lets say Kakarot NEVER existed

[Anti-Anime]

Every dbz thread ends up back there cant blame the kakarot stans for feeling some kind of way...they arent used to seeing a low level saiyan being treated like a low level saiyan

Nah, we're just not used saiyan royalty with feminine tendencies.

 

[VegetasHairline]

There is no Piccolo if Goku never exists. Only King Piccolo.

 

[lutha]

your wrong on this 100%

for starters, the timeline for the movie in question movie 8 is between the 10 day gap before the cell games.

There were no SSJ2's at this time in the manga and in the movie they were all SSJs. What your confusion comes from is different SSJ1 forms so i will break them down to you one by one.

Normal SSJ - Goku on Namek when he fought frieza
SSJ Grade 1 (Ascended SSJ) - Vegeta when he fights 2nd form cell on earth
SSJ Grade 2 (Ascended SSJ) - Trunks when he fought perfect cell on earth
LSSJ - Brolly in movie 8 and movie 10
Mastered SSJ (Full Power SSJ) - Goku and Gohan when they fought cell

Wow you just said only vegeto gogeto or gotenks can beat brolly, yet brolly lost to a tired ssj1 goku in movie 8, and lost to a rusty ssj1 gohan, new ssj1 goten, and the spirit of ssj1 goku.

I'm through here

you really need to go back and look at the timeline and the power levels, cause you're off...and i'm not confused about the ss forms, i own the whole series, have read a good protion of the mangas, i know the forms...i know people like to add all kinds of levels to try to say who was stronger than who, but there are only 3 (4 if you include dbgt) major ss levels, it's goes:

ss1 - when they first turn; their hair just turns blonde
ss2 - ascended (their hair stands up straighter, looks longer, but it isnt) (goku and gohan against cell)
ss3 - when they get the long hair (goku & gotenks against buu) [this is the original highest level]
ss4 - their hair goes long and black (goku & vegeta in dbgt) [this form isnt really true to the universe, it was kinda just added cause of gt]

now, characters that dont fit into those categories: mystic gohan and piccolo after he becomes a super namek...mystic gohan is between a ss2 and ss3; while piccolo is a lil less than a ss1

yes, those are the only 3 characters that could beat broly in a 1 on 1 fight....cause they are the strongest characters cause of the merging...you really dont understand the power he had as the legendary super saiyan...he was what the legends were about...he was what vegeta always wished he was....i mean seriously, the cat was so powerful in that form, he had to release energy so his body could handle it...if he didnt, he wouldve blown up cause his body wouldnt have been able to handle it....he blew up planets without having to transform into the monkey...

also, you're wrong about how he 'lost' to goku...goku hit him with a punch after he absorbed all the energy from everyone else after they had just gotten they ass whopped again by broly...he beat they asses twice, including after they ate sensu beans...which goes to show how strong he was....cause if saiyans get stronger after eating the beans and recovering from the first ass whopping, they shouldve been stronger than him right?...but they werent, why is that?...cause the cat was the legendary ss...he got stronger just by being pissed off, he didnt need to get his ass whopped....he was hulk times 10....go back and look at the movie cause obviously you dont remember it correctly....

 

[Jplaya2023]

you really need to go back and look at the timeline and the power levels, cause you're off...and i'm not confused about the ss forms, i own the whole series, have read a good protion of the mangas, i know the forms...i know people like to add all kinds of levels to try to say who was stronger than who, but there are only 3 (4 if you include dbgt) major ss levels, it's goes:

ss1 - when they first turn; their hair just turns blonde
ss2 - ascended (their hair stands up straighter, looks longer, but it isnt) (goku and gohan against cell)
ss3 - when they get the long hair (goku & gotenks against buu) [this is the original highest level]
ss4 - their hair goes long and black (goku & vegeta in dbgt) [this form isnt really true to the universe, it was kinda just added cause of gt]

now, characters that dont fit into those categories: mystic gohan and piccolo after he becomes a super namek...mystic gohan is between a ss2 and ss3; while piccolo is a lil less than a ss1

yes, those are the only 3 characters that could beat broly in a 1 on 1 fight....cause they are the strongest characters cause of the merging...you really dont understand the power he had as the legendary super saiyan...he was what the legends were about...he was what vegeta always wished he was....i mean seriously, the cat was so powerful in that form, he had to release energy so his body could handle it...if he didnt, he wouldve blown up cause his body wouldnt have been able to handle it....he blew up planets without having to transform into the monkey...

also, you're wrong about how he 'lost' to goku...goku hit him with a punch after he absorbed all the energy from everyone else after they had just gotten they ass whopped again by broly...he beat they asses twice, including after they ate sensu beans...which goes to show how strong he was....cause if saiyans get stronger after eating the beans and recovering from the first ass whopping, they shouldve been stronger than him right?...but they werent, why is that?...cause the cat was the legendary ss...he got stronger just by being pissed off, he didnt need to get his ass whopped....he was hulk times 10....go back and look at the movie cause obviously you dont remember it correctly....

dawg i'm sorry you're wrong here is the reference point. Again SSJ1 has different sub forms associated to it but it's not SSJ2. Goku and Gohan initially against cell were FPSSJ1, only gohan went ssj2 against cell when he stepped on 16's head.

■False Super Saiyan: a pseudo-Super Saiyan form resembling a glorified Kaio-ken, with a orange-yellowish surge of aura. It only appears in the movie Dragon Ball Z: Lord Slug, in which King Kai refers to it as the real Super Saiyan form.
■Super Saiyan: the standard Super Saiyan transformation. It is achieved when a Saiyan has a lot of anger, as shown by Goku when Frieza killed Krillin, Vegeta when Goku surpassed his abilities, and Future Trunks when the Androids killed Future Gohan. Broly's Super Saiyan has blue and/or purple hair due the use of a Mind Control Device; his hair has the regular Super Saiyan hair color without it.
■Ascended Super Saiyan: an advancement in the power of the original Super Saiyan state. This is Vegeta's primary state in the Perfect Cell Saga.
■Ultra Super Saiyan: an even stronger advancement in the power of the original Super Saiyan state, however lacks speed as increased muscle size restricts movement. Future Trunks uses this form in the Perfect Cell Saga.
■Full-Power Super Saiyan: the state of mental and physical perfection of the Super Saiyan transformation itself, rather than an advanced stage.
■Legendary Super Saiyan: a level of Super Saiyan which magnifies its user's strength capacity, without drawbacks. Broly is the only user of this Super Saiyan variant, and does not appear in the manga.
■Super Saiyan 2: the second Super Saiyan transformation.
■Super Saiyan 3: the third Super Saiyan transformation. Broly's version in video games was once called Legendary Super Saiyan 3.
■Super Saiyan God: a Saiyan form that grants the user enough power to fight on par with a god, but only for a limited time. It occurs when five pure-hearted Saiyans hold hands and transfer energy to the host. Only appears in the movie Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Gods.
■Golden Great Ape: a Saiyan Great Ape in Super Saiyan form. Appears in Dragon Ball GT and Vegeta's flashback on Namek in the Dragon Ball Z anime.
■Super Saiyan 4: a Saiyan transformation which occurs when a Saiyan is able to regain control while in Golden Great Ape form. Introduced in Dragon Ball GT.


http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Super_Saiyan

 

[lutha]

Remember it took Goku punching Broly in the chest (with a little help from the crew) to take Broly to a STALEMATE.

And this is a stalemate after Broly had whooped everyone out, Piccolo showed up with Senzu (Saiyan Cheat Code Activated) and then he beat their asses AGAIN.

Think about how strong that is. Beat Goku, Trunks and Gohan to a pulp. Goku and the team gets a senzu and heals. And then he beats them to a pulp again.

And then? Broly shows up years later, healed. And he has Saiyan blood as well. Dude has to be SSJ2 and better because recall that the 2nd time around they needed Goku to come down to help with the Triple Kamehemeha.

thank you...that cat is tripping with how weak he thinking broly was....it's a reason they called him the legendary super saiyan and he made everyone shyt bricks...including goku and no one ever made goku shyt bricks...he mightve thought they were strong and would be fun to fight 9i.e frieza, cell, buu), but he never worried about beating them...broly on the other hand, had him worried....

 

[Jplaya2023]

yes, those are the only 3 characters that could beat broly in a 1 on 1 fight....cause they are the strongest characters cause of the merging...you really dont understand the power he had as the legendary super saiyan...he was what the legends were about...he was what vegeta always wished he was....i mean seriously, the cat was so powerful in that form, he had to release energy so his body could handle it...if he didnt, he wouldve blown up cause his body wouldnt have been able to handle it....he blew up planets without having to transform into the monkey...

also, you're wrong about how he 'lost' to goku...goku hit him with a punch after he absorbed all the energy from everyone else after they had just gotten they ass whopped again by broly...he beat they asses twice, including after they ate sensu beans...which goes to show how strong he was....cause if saiyans get stronger after eating the beans and recovering from the first ass whopping, they shouldve been stronger than him right?...but they werent, why is that?...cause the cat was the legendary ss...he got stronger just by being pissed off, he didnt need to get his ass whopped....he was hulk times 10....go back and look at the movie cause obviously you dont remember it correctly....

Brolly in movie 8 is probably as strong as initial perfect cell against trunks. Again he fought against weaker ssjs in the movie and he slaughtered them. Zenkai's essentially became obsolete after SSJ forms were discovered so they werent getting stronger after eating those beans.

The movie was trash but goku gathered energy of 4 dying powers + his own beat brolly. Perfect cell would've eradicated everyone instantly.

 

[lutha]

dawg i'm sorry you're wrong here is the reference point. Again SSJ1 has different sub forms associated to it but it's not SSJ2. Goku and Gohan initially against cell were FPSSJ1, only gohan went ssj2 against cell when he stepped on 16's head.

■False Super Saiyan: a pseudo-Super Saiyan form resembling a glorified Kaio-ken, with a orange-yellowish surge of aura. It only appears in the movie Dragon Ball Z: Lord Slug, in which King Kai refers to it as the real Super Saiyan form.
■Super Saiyan: the standard Super Saiyan transformation. It is achieved when a Saiyan has a lot of anger, as shown by Goku when Frieza killed Krillin, Vegeta when Goku surpassed his abilities, and Future Trunks when the Androids killed Future Gohan. Broly's Super Saiyan has blue and/or purple hair due the use of a Mind Control Device; his hair has the regular Super Saiyan hair color without it.
■Ascended Super Saiyan: an advancement in the power of the original Super Saiyan state. This is Vegeta's primary state in the Perfect Cell Saga.
■Ultra Super Saiyan: an even stronger advancement in the power of the original Super Saiyan state, however lacks speed as increased muscle size restricts movement. Future Trunks uses this form in the Perfect Cell Saga.
■Full-Power Super Saiyan: the state of mental and physical perfection of the Super Saiyan transformation itself, rather than an advanced stage.
■Legendary Super Saiyan: a level of Super Saiyan which magnifies its user's strength capacity, without drawbacks. Broly is the only user of this Super Saiyan variant, and does not appear in the manga.
■Super Saiyan 2: the second Super Saiyan transformation.
■Super Saiyan 3: the third Super Saiyan transformation. Broly's version in video games was once called Legendary Super Saiyan 3.
■Super Saiyan God: a Saiyan form that grants the user enough power to fight on par with a god, but only for a limited time. It occurs when five pure-hearted Saiyans hold hands and transfer energy to the host. Only appears in the movie Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Gods.
■Golden Great Ape: a Saiyan Great Ape in Super Saiyan form. Appears in Dragon Ball GT and Vegeta's flashback on Namek in the Dragon Ball Z anime.
■Super Saiyan 4: a Saiyan transformation which occurs when a Saiyan is able to regain control while in Golden Great Ape form. Introduced in Dragon Ball GT.


http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Super_Saiyan

thanks for the link, but i'm not wrong...there were only 3 levels originally....all those sub levels were added cause people wanted bs reasons to say whom was stronger than whom, that's it...seriously, look at the differences between the so called 'levels'...they naming 1 person without really stating a difference....that's cause there wasnt, they just wanted such and such to be stronger than such and such....hell, they included a 'ss god' level, even though that movie just came out lol....come on man, i'm telling you what i know...

 

[Jplaya2023]

thanks for the link, but i'm not wrong...there were only 3 levels originally....all those sub levels were added cause people wanted bs reasons to say whom was stronger than whom, that's it...seriously, look at the differences between the so called 'levels'...they naming 1 person without really stating a difference....that's cause there wasnt, they just wanted such and such to be stronger than such and such....hell, they included a 'ss god' level, even though that movie just came out lol....come on man, i'm telling you what i know...

it's not BS it's in SEG guide and the Daizenshuu. This is canon by Toryiama.

again SSJ1 has different forms associated to it which was my point.

here is a better link showing my point.

http://www.daizex.com/guides/transformations/saiyan/

 

[lutha]

Brolly in movie 8 is probably as strong as initial perfect cell against trunks. Again he fought against weaker ssjs in the movie and he slaughtered them. Zenkai's essentially became obsolete after SSJ forms were discovered so they werent getting stronger after eating those beans.

The movie was trash but goku gathered energy of 4 dying powers + his own beat brolly. Perfect cell would've eradicated everyone instantly.

not true....broly wouldve slaughtered cell....he fought against weaker ss? they were full health when he whopped their asses....and he then whopped they asses again after they regained full health cause of the beans...which also made them stronger cause of saiyan blood...you can keep downplaying him all you want, but broly was the truth

 

[lutha]

it's not BS it's in SEG guide and the Daizenshuu. This is canon by Toryiama.

again SSJ1 has different forms associated to it which was my point.

here is a better link showing my point.

http://www.daizex.com/guides/transformations/saiyan/

it is bs because it's just fans trying to justify why such and such is stronger than such and such....the canon created by toryiama didnt separate the levels into all those sub groups, it was fans...that's what i'm trying to tell you...he had 3 original levels: ss1, ss2, ss3....now, could the charaters get stronger inbetween levels? yes, but they were still considered whatever ss level....ex: gohan was obviously stronger before he went ss2 against cell, but he was still considered a ss1 until he made the complete transformaton...

with that: i have to make a correction to what i said eariler: when they fought broly, vegeta and goku werent ascended (ss2), they were just stronger than normal ss1s, but they hadnt made the transformation yet...goku made it while travelling before the cell saga, vegeta after the cell saga, but before he became majin...

 

[Mic-Nificent]

Best thing about DBZ threads is watching people trying to defend ole Punching bag

 

[VegetasHairline]

Stop derailing this thread arguing about Super Saiyan forms. Get back to the original topic.

 

[Ed MOTHEREFFING G]

Stop derailing this thread arguing about Super Saiyan forms. Get back to the original topic.

Yup

Just think of the Plant Trade organization's depth chart in this imaginary scenario

King Cold
Cooler - Frieza

Zarbon - Didoria

Vegeta - Raditz - Nappa - Turles - Brolly
Ginyu - Jeice - Recoome - Guldo - Burter
Apul - Cui - Nail [face it he would've bowed down]

simply put nobody we've discussed besides theoretically Dabura stands a chance against them in this alternate future...until bills

 

[VegetasHairline]

I'd put Captain Ginyu above Zarbon and Dodoria. Possibly every Ginyu Force member but Guldo about them as well. That's just me tho.

 

[Ed MOTHEREFFING G]

I'd put Captain Ginyu above Zarbon and Dodoria. Possibly every Ginyu Force member but Guldo about them as well. That's just me tho.

That wasn't really a power ranking but a 'who the organization would value' ranking.

the saiyans would be like a force for hire like the ginyus...hell they'd be more of a cleaning crew than anything..lol