Article: Larry Bird Was Better Than LeBron

[Raw Lyrics]

Who the hell didn't know Bird was better than Lebron?

It's common sense.

- More rings facing tougher competition.
- Better shooter by far
- Better rebounder by far
- Better post-up player by far
- Better passer
- Better footwork
- Better help/team defender
- Better team leader by far
- Better team player by far
- Mentally tougher, by far.
- Better competitor. Bird wanted to compete against Magic, Zeke, Bernard King, Worthy, Jordan, Dominique, etc., not join them.
- More clutch. Bird is the most clutch player in history. Pat Riley on who he would choose to take the last shot: "If I had to win a game, I'll pick Michael Jordan. If I had to bet my life, I'm picking Larry Bird."


So, what's there to talk about? Bird > Bron Bron.

C/S close thread.

 

[Raw Lyrics]

huh?

Did you know that Bird averaged 10(3 more than bron) boards a games for his whole career?
while adding over 6 assists a game(same as Bron)?
both same blocks at .8 per game
they both had same steals 1.7 per game
Bird had less turnovers per game


I just looked up Shooting percentages between the two
both exactly .496 career shooting(how strange is that)
Larry Kills him in FT and 3p shooting though

Larry also played more than him 38+ minutes a game.




Its funny watching all these dudes in here saying how dominant and athletic Bron is compared to Bird yet bird was on par or even out matched him in all those stats.

You would figure Bron would have him beat in steals, blocks, rebounds, even playing time but naw....
So not only was LArry on par stat wise (or better) than Bron
He's got more CHampionships.



So can we end this charade now? Dudes talking like its such an insult that Bird is compared to or better than Bron don't even understand how Bird could be so diminant himself.

I want to see LeBron put up Bird numbers when he no longer has the athleticism or explosiveness - which is how Bird played his entire career NO ATHLETICISM NO EXPLOSIVENESS. Bird was the slowest dude on the court putting up Bron numbers.

 

[Jerz-2]

So what are you saying, Todd?

"To all you bytchES, hoooes and all that shyt...."

Dawg, I say this shyt EVERY DAY....to wifey, to co-workers...

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

dog why still quote me? if you are on his dikk then be on his dikk ... im not saying anything you post is nonsense, but when I post you turn into a "I dont understand" "what do you mean"

Wait, what?

you keep moving the goalposts and shyt with "if lebron was in birds position" and "teammates" but in the same breath act like lebron didnt handpick his teams. I agree with most of what you say, and you are a good poster but how do you want me to respond to you if you are gonna let shyt float over your head?

I'm not moving any goalposts, I'm just explaining to you on how important context is. I'm not acting like LeBron didn't handpick his teammates - I'm talking about his first stint in Cleveland - not Miami, or his first season back with the Cavs. Bird was fortunate in that he was on a team with actual talent; players who could carry the scoring load and sometimes averaged more ppg than he did during the postseason. Look at the difference in starting help between the two players during the playoffs -

Bird could depend on his teammates to carry the load - can't say the same about LeBron's.

the same thing you are saying about bird being trash and overrated apply to lebron too ... I dunno how you cant see it... you replace bird and lebron and the celtics are real dope and lebron would win... but none of that steal the ball and shyt on detroit shyt is happening ... lebron aint beating magic johnson led lakers either .. teammates or not man...

LeBron with those Celtics squads would probably win five rings, and would be looked at entirely differently to what he's looked at today.

dlebron is having trouble with draymond green and igoudala ... Lebron wanted Shumpert and Jr Smith on his team, that really tells you all you need to know about him. Most stars wouldnt want to be anywhere near those clowns

Why are you speaking as if Draymond isn't the best defender in the league, Iggy isn't one of the best wing defenders and the Warriors weren't the best defensive team last season? Why are you speaking as if he wanted Shumpert and JR to be his two main scoring options (and not Love and Kyrie who were both injured)?

It'd be like McHale going to the Finals against the Lakers without D.J. and Parish - do you think he would've beaten them without those two players?

but what it all comes back to is Lebron and Bird both aint shyt, you're just picking sides and dont see that they are both at fault for the same exact shyt ...

Wait, what?

only difference is bird has plays that define his career and lebron's argument is stats.

LeBron has plenty of plays that define his career - the problem is they won't be put on loop (to ingrain in our minds) until he's retired, as he's still writing his story. We'll all start reminiscing about what he did during his career and all his moments when they keep replaying them over and over again, when he's out of the game. You only look at Bird in this way (as every other single past great) because he's no longer playing, and the only way to remember him is through moments where he was at his best. Even moments that at the time probably weren't that special, but through sports romanticism and suggestibility are now perceived as being special.

If his argument is stats, surely you must entertain the possibility that at least some of those stats were career-defining moments -

This was the third time in his career that James hit a game-winning shot at the buzzer during a postseason game, according to ESPN Stats & Info. That's the same number that Michael Jordan hit in his career. LeBron has also now made four go-ahead shots in the "final seconds" of playoffs games, per ESPN Stats & Info. Over the past 15 years no one has hit more.

He's had the same number of game winning shots as Jordan in the playoffs, and more go-ahead baskets in the final seconds of playoff games than ANYBODY in the last 15 year and you're telling me he doesn't have any plays that define his career?

Stats only go so far, doesnt kobe have the 3 point record in a game? But Kobe is fukking trash at shooting 3s so who really cares .. he will never be remembered as a top 20 3 point shooter stats or not

What the hell do you mean stats only go so far? How does Kobe's 3-point record in a game relate to LeBron's stats?

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

I want to see LeBron put up Bird numbers when he no longer has the athleticism or explosiveness - which is how Bird played his entire career NO ATHLETICISM NO EXPLOSIVENESS. Bird was the slowest dude on the court putting up Bron numbers.

 

[#1 pick]

Wait, what?



I'm not moving any goalposts, I'm just explaining to you on how important context is. I'm not acting like LeBron didn't handpick his teammates - I'm talking about his first stint in Cleveland - not Miami, or his first season back with the Cavs. Bird was fortunate in that he was on a team with actual talent; players who could carry the scoring load and sometimes averaged more ppg than he did during the postseason. Look at the difference in starting help between the two players during the playoffs -

Bird could depend on his teammates to carry the load - can't say the same about LeBron's.

LeBron with those Celtics squads would probably win five rings, and would be looked at entirely differently to what he's looked at today.

Why are you speaking as if Draymond isn't the best defender in the league, Iggy isn't one of the best wing defenders and the Warriors weren't the best defensive team last season? Why are you speaking as if he wanted Shumpert and JR to be his two main scoring options (and not Love and Kyrie who were both injured)?

It'd be like McHale going to the Finals against the Lakers without D.J. and Parish - do you think he would've beaten them without those two players?

Wait, what?



LeBron has plenty of plays that define his career - the problem is they won't be put on loop (to ingrain in our minds) until he's retired, as he's still writing his story. We'll all start reminiscing about what he did during his career and all his moments when they keep replaying them over and over again, when he's out of the game. You only look at Bird in this way (as every other single past great) because he's no longer playing, and the only way to remember him is through moments where he was at his best. Even moments that at the time probably weren't that special, but through sports romanticism and suggestibility are now perceived as being special.

If his argument is stats, surely you must entertain the possibility that at least some of those stats were career-defining moments -

​

He's had the same number of game winning shots as Jordan in the playoffs, and more go-ahead baskets in the final seconds of playoff games than ANYBODY in the last 15 year and you're telling me he doesn't have any plays that define his career?




What the hell do you mean stats only go so far? How does Kobe's 3-point record in a game relate to LeBron's stats?

Let's remove the fact that the NBA rules are much different, zone defense and far more complex schemes, better defensive players in the NBA and a much larger talent pool and then let's not include pace of the NBA is much slower with far less possessions but this is the coli, logic not needed here.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Let's remove the fact that the NBA rules are much different, zone defense and far more complex schemes, better defensive players in the NBA and a much larger talent pool and then let's not include pace of the NBA is much slower with far less possessions but this is the coli, logic not needed here.

i) You can't just go by surface stats (especially rebounds - since they're meaningless in this context)
ii) Defense is better today than it was in the 80s, by a considerable margin:

Bird's best seasons ('83-'88) the league average pace was - 103, 101, 102, 102, 100, 99
LeBron's best seasons ('05-'13) the league average pace was - 90, 90, 91, 92, 91, 92, 92, 91, 92

LeBron is playing in a league with 10-13 less possessions per game, yet he was still putting up more production than Bird. Can you imagine the difference in their #s if LeBron had the advantage of playing in an era with 10-13 more possessions a game? Dude would be approaching Wilt numbers.

Imagine Brons #s back then

 

[Black Ball]

A ngga who cant run or jump shouldn't be compared to Lb

Who are you taking both in their prime

If you gotta win 1 gm

nikka is you serious? To win 1 game? Bird who relishes pressure and big games? Bird who talks big shyt and puts one in your eye? Or Bron who many times finds a way to shrink in the big games & gets shut down by Fat Diaw in Finals games?

I wonder what kind of numbers Bird would put up, 1-on-1, against Fat Diaw with a championship on the line

 

[TrebleMan]

The funny thing is watching Bird play, I think of that unathletic cat that always seems to score and light the gym up. Yes dude could shoot, but he still shouldn't be able to score that much. But somehow he does and he's scoring on cats with what looks like a bag of tricks. However you realize that's his basketball IQ: Just knowing the right time to hesitate, when to take an extra step back on his jump shot which is automatic, the best way to come off the screen at that moment.

Bird was that cat, but on the NBA level.

The following has nothing to do with legacy, and really this debate, but is still interesting when analyzing players imo:
Anybody into studying those personality types may be familiar with Bird was an ISTP and LeBron an ESTP. As an ISTP Bird was a technician and mastered skills while being cold-blooded and non-emotional, Jordan was the same type. This makes them somewhat better under pressure vs someone like LeBron who's an ESTP and who focuses slightly more on opinions of him.

While Most Athletes Possess Great Physical Skills, It's the Mind That Separates the Best From the Rest : BRAIN MATTERS

 

[Greenhornet]

Wait, what?



I'm not moving any goalposts, I'm just explaining to you on how important context is. I'm not acting like LeBron didn't handpick his teammates - I'm talking about his first stint in Cleveland - not Miami, or his first season back with the Cavs. Bird was fortunate in that he was on a team with actual talent; players who could carry the scoring load and sometimes averaged more ppg than he did during the postseason. Look at the difference in starting help between the two players during the playoffs -

Bird could depend on his teammates to carry the load - can't say the same about LeBron's.

LeBron with those Celtics squads would probably win five rings, and would be looked at entirely differently to what he's looked at today.

Why are you speaking as if Draymond isn't the best defender in the league, Iggy isn't one of the best wing defenders and the Warriors weren't the best defensive team last season? Why are you speaking as if he wanted Shumpert and JR to be his two main scoring options (and not Love and Kyrie who were both injured)?

It'd be like McHale going to the Finals against the Lakers without D.J. and Parish - do you think he would've beaten them without those two players?

Wait, what?



LeBron has plenty of plays that define his career - the problem is they won't be put on loop (to ingrain in our minds) until he's retired, as he's still writing his story. We'll all start reminiscing about what he did during his career and all his moments when they keep replaying them over and over again, when he's out of the game. You only look at Bird in this way (as every other single past great) because he's no longer playing, and the only way to remember him is through moments where he was at his best. Even moments that at the time probably weren't that special, but through sports romanticism and suggestibility are now perceived as being special.

If his argument is stats, surely you must entertain the possibility that at least some of those stats were career-defining moments -

​

He's had the same number of game winning shots as Jordan in the playoffs, and more go-ahead baskets in the final seconds of playoff games than ANYBODY in the last 15 year and you're telling me he doesn't have any plays that define his career?




What the hell do you mean stats only go so far? How does Kobe's 3-point record in a game relate to LeBron's stats?

everything you say about bird can be said about lebron and most of what you are typing to me is your opinion and not fact... you keep trying to tell me how i feel about bird and how hes only remembered for the good shyt ... but i could give a fukk less about larry bird. Dude was nonathletic trash that doesnt change the fact that he is a winner man ... teammates or not. fukk Lebron's first stint ... you arent even listening to anything, you say lebron would win 5 titles with the celtics... but at the same time say Celtics were about team... so in your opinion basically lebron would be interchangable with bird "Since kevin mchale carried the load" who do you think is gonna carry lebrons load man? Lebron hasnt carried his own load since that first stint.... saying draymond green is the best defensive player in the league is retarded man, and saying iggy is one of the best wing players all of a sudden is redundant too, Iggy has been nice since philly man.... Kawhi is better than both of those cats .. I dont understand where you're coming from but I feel you. If Lebron is so dope in your eyes, then why are you making excuses now when I bring up Draymond Green, Andre Igoudala, Kawhi Leonard, Jason Kidd shutting him down in the finals, Shawn Marion talking that shyt and putting him in the cup, Kobe making him feel some type of way at the allstar game, Cleveland just got manhandled like 3 days ago and Lebron quit. If he is dope like you are fighting for, than why are you sticking up for the defensive players shutting him down? You cant stick up for a dude and at the same time say "well draymond green is so good, oh and iggy is one of the best" which is it man? then who is better Lol the dude being shut down or the guy shutting him down? cause like i keep saying man... you can bring up who shut weak ass larry bird down. But he won in the end, he didnt quit or run from being a loser he fought, team or not and brought those larry o'briens home. Lebron has never gotten revenge on anyone worth noting, game winners over weak ass chicago and shyt dont matter to me, it just reminds me how garbage the bulls are when I look back 10 years from now. Mentally Lebron would be in the locker room, he wouldnt have made it in that era ... look at what he did with Dirk yelling in his face ... this man treated him like shyt and he folded like wet clothes man... you think larry who was saying everything foul besides calling someone the n word, wouldnt have had a bigger effect than this? Deshawn fukking Stevenson shut him down and was talking shyt man. He is just not about that life when someone steps up to him... He would rather not look at all, than look bad and thats cool though. Statistically hes a legend and one of the best to do it ... but that does not matter in a game decided by victory .. you get a glass paperweight when you do something statistically ... like kevin durant's whole closet pretty much. To your point about stats, if KD never wins... scoring titles or not ... he wont be remembered at all. People already dont talk about Dominique or shyt on him (like you did lol) so how are they gonna talk about KD if he doesnt win? Nobody is gonna bring up his scoring titles and shyt, just a limited highlight reel with a few important game winners and nothing really as exciting as Nique who is already forgotten.

 

[Roadie pipeher]

People lose their cotdamn minds when talking about bron..like father time is just gonna be like..i'ma take everything else now play basketball..

 

[Mr_X]

Lebron is fatherless and a hoe ass nikka. Larry is a legend.

Bird>Lebron

 

[Goatpoacher]

The level of mental retardation prevalent in this thread..


Bird was a "great" defender now...


Dr J > Bird


KG > Bird

 

[JYoung24]

Outside shooting

He does everything better

Bird is a better passer and rebounder lebron is a better ball handler

 

[MAKAVELI25]

The funny thing is watching Bird play, I think of that unathletic cat that always seems to score and light the gym up. Yes dude could shoot, but he still shouldn't be able to score that much. But somehow he does and he's scoring on cats with what looks like a bag of tricks. However you realize that's his basketball IQ: Just knowing the right time to hesitate, when to take an extra step back on his jump shot which is automatic, the best way to come off the screen at that moment.

Bird was that cat, but on the NBA level.

The following has nothing to do with legacy, and really this debate, but is still interesting when analyzing players imo:
Anybody into studying those personality types may be familiar with Bird was an ISTP and LeBron an ESTP. As an ISTP Bird was a technician and mastered skills while being cold-blooded and non-emotional, Jordan was the same type. This makes them somewhat better under pressure vs someone like LeBron who's an ESTP and who focuses slightly more on opinions of him.

While Most Athletes Possess Great Physical Skills, It's the Mind That Separates the Best From the Rest : BRAIN MATTERS

What evidence led you to conclude their specific personality types?

Edit: the article you picked puts Shaq as an ISTP. Does Shaq strike you as someone who leads with Introverted thinking?