As much as ya'll hate feminists...

[electric_fur]

what confuses people is that you have the idea and the principles themselves of what feminism should be, and then you have the people who claim feminism. who really should decide what a movement stands for?

it's kinda like Christianity. You have the people who claim Christianity today and throughout history, some are good and some have done evil stuff. then you have the core principles and teachings of Jesus Christ which are in theory a beautiful thing. So is Christianity a good or a bad thing? is Christianity the idea or is it whatever people have made it throughout time? same could be said with any group or movement. Who really decides and defines the movement? who decided that feminism is XYZ? Who gets to decide the definition?

Yeah that's a problem. But like someone was pointing out earlier it's like people misconstruing Black Panthers. There are so many good things about feminism and what we've done, and I feel like the media have done a good job fukking that up for us. I don't like to judge women as being not feminist enough, but I definitely feel like some women do it the wrong way.

lol, what does that even mean though? Sure i probably couldn't live through the pain of a baby coming out of my penis. But if men had a vagina (which is an impossible scenario) what makes you think we couldn't suffer through the pain of childbirth?

haha I was just trying to give an example of how I don't believe we're naturally equal on all parts. Also women have special chemicals in their bodies that make them forget about the pain.

 

[Wild self]

any man that wants to return to traditional gender roles is insecure and most likely gay.

How is that gay for a man that desires a woman that stays at home and take care of the kids? That type of ignorance is why no one respects feminists. Sound like a hate group to me.

 

[Turbulent]

Yeah that's a problem. But like someone was pointing out earlier it's like people misconstruing Black Panthers. There are so many good things about feminism and what we've done, and I feel like the media have done a good job fukking that up for us. I don't like to judge women as being not feminist enough, but I definitely feel like some women do it the wrong way.



haha I was just trying to give an example of how I don't believe we're naturally equal on all parts. Also women have special chemicals in their bodies that make them forget about the pain.

that's why i always feel weird about identifying with groups or movement. If someone says something i agree with, i'll support their idea. The same person could say something else i disagree with and i'll speak up. But adhering to a group is complicated because the movement is not clearly defined. People project whatever they want on the movement and different people means different projections on the same movement...

 

[Zapp Brannigan]

What argument did I change? I have had the same argument from the beginning. There are multiple facets to the women's movement and that they are equally pertinent. I keep saying the same shyt over and over again and you keep trying to turn it into something else. There is nothing to interpret about that statement. It is very clear and direct.

I won't let it go because you are pretending like I am trying to change something. I was making fun of you for accusing of being a feminist simply because I've read books and have an opinion about it.

Dude. In every single thread I've ever posted in, I have stood by what I said 100% of the time. I don't have a reason to try and change my argument. I keep saying the same thing over and over again. Nothing has changed. The only issue that happens is when you try to twist what I say to mean what you want it to mean. I stand by every single post I have made.

Dude I have been very clear and consistent. There are multiple facets to the women's movement. They are all pertinent. What the fukk is hard to understand about that? Why do you keep trying to spin it to what you want it to be?

You said that I didn't cite anything and when I did you tried to flip what she meant. You can't do that Daygo. Again, liberal feminism is ALIVE AND WELL. It is considered more mainstream than the men hating one. That is the type of feminism that most modern women subscribe too. Electric fur JUST made a comment alluded to that. The only type that has really lost traction is historical materialist feminism and radical continues to become more unpopular.

What have I tried to dodge? When I got home, I cited shyt, explained everything. What else do you want Daygo? You lost. Get over it.

You're trying to act as if the man hating type of feminism isn't the type of feminism that has the most influence or the fact that you're getting this defensive and angry over a type of ideology that you supposedly don't support and that you were so ready to ragequit over a long time ago yesterday but you have to get the last word in because you swear up and down that I don't know the history of feminism rather than actually seeing who has the influence and where feminism in its current state is.

You keep trying to say that feminism has lots of different facets and that it would be too unfair to attack it as man hating, but the man hating part is still a pertinent facet of feminism and still just as important as the rest of it. If it's still important as the rest of it and if you consider the influence that it's had on legislation and culture in the modern era, I think my assessment is fair.

I said you didn't cite anything when you didn't cite anything. If you as a researcher couldn't back up your statements saying that feminism wasn't about man hating until late last night (and even then you used Andrea Dworkin as a source), I'm going to call out your opinions as unsubstantiated. I have a very difficult time believing that feminism exists as you say it does for reasons I said before. It's one thing to say feminists don't hate men. It's something entirely different when you look at the influence it's had on culture and legislation.

I guess if you really feel desperate you can declare yourself the winner. Just flip the chessboard over. Get really upset?

 

[electric_fur]

that's why i always feel weird about identifying with groups or movement. If someone says something i agree with, i'll support their idea. The same person could say something else i disagree with and i'll speak up. But adhering to a group is complicated because the movement is not clearly defined. People project whatever they want on the movement and different people means different projections on the same movement...

When I introduce myself as a feminist to a lot of people I say I'm a feminist who likes Eminem. Which I feel is going to convey what type of feminist I am to these people.

Favorite eminem song:


Considered his most sexist song by a lot of chicks.

I also like Bukowski but I believe that it might be too obscure to list myself as a feminist who likes Bukowski.

 

[Turbulent]

When I introduce myself as a feminist to a lot of people I say I'm a feminist who likes Eminem. Which I feel is going to convey what type of feminist I am to these people.

Favorite eminem song:
Eminem - Superman (Clean Version) - YouTube

Considered his most sexist song by a lot of chicks.

I also like Bukowski but I believe that it might be too obscure to list myself as a feminist who likes Bukowski.

i feel what you,re saying as far as not being what the mainstream thinks what a feminist is but honestly, if someone presented themselves to me as a feminist, for some reason this wouldn't mean much to me. It gives me a slight idea of your orientation but that's it. At the end of the day, beyond the box and the label, what do you stand for? I'll probably love some of it and disagree with some of it but as long as we can exchange, it's all good.

I could debate with someone but i rarely see it as me vs. you. When ever i debate i feel like it's a quest for truth. We may debate eachother but if i'm debating in good faith, i'm searching for truth (and hopefully you are too) because that's where the devine is. That's where God is. And that goes for any subject we could debate on (science, morality, social issues, etc, etc). If we're both looking for the same thing and just coming from different angles, we're still on the same team. I just feel like a lot of times, putting yourself under an umbrella, you run the risk of becoming a slave to the concept. You're not looking for truth anymore, instead you're a soldier for the movement.

 

[electric_fur]

i feel what you,re saying as far as not being what the mainstream thinks what a feminist is but honestly, if someone presented themselves to me as a feminist, for some reason this wouldn't mean much to me. It gives me a slight idea of your orientation but that's it. At the end of the day, beyond the box and the label, what do you stand for? I'll probably love some of it and disagree with some of it but as long as we can exchange, it's all good.

I could debate with someone but i rarely see it as me vs. you. When ever i debate i feel like it's a quest for truth. We may debate eachother but if i'm debating in good faith, i'm searching for truth (and hopefully you are too) because that's where the devine is. That's where God is. And that goes for any subject we could debate on (science, morality, social issues, etc, etc). If we're both looking for the same thing and just coming from different angles, we're still on the same team. I just feel like a lot of times, putting yourself under an umbrella, you run the risk of becoming a slave to the concept. You're not looking for truth anymore, instead you're a soldier for the movement.

I see what you're saying, but it's a label I choose and I take the good and bad with it.

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

Feminism has outlived it's purpose and usefulness in America.​

 

[SouthernBelle]

You're trying to act as if the man hating type of feminism isn't the type of feminism that has the most influence or the fact that you're getting this defensive and angry over a type of ideology that you supposedly don't support and that you were so ready to ragequit over a long time ago yesterday but you have to get the last word in because you swear up and down that I don't know the history of feminism rather than actually seeing who has the influence and where feminism in its current state is.

You keep trying to say that feminism has lots of different facets and that it would be too unfair to attack it as man hating, but the man hating part is still a pertinent facet of feminism and still just as important as the rest of it. If it's still important as the rest of it and if you consider the influence that it's had on legislation and culture in the modern era, I think my assessment is fair.

I said you didn't cite anything when you didn't cite anything. If you as a researcher couldn't back up your statements saying that feminism wasn't about man hating until late last night (and even then you used Andrea Dworkin as a source), I'm going to call out your opinions as unsubstantiated. I have a very difficult time believing that feminism exists as you say it does for reasons I said before. It's one thing to say feminists don't hate men. It's something entirely different when you look at the influence it's had on culture and legislation.

I guess if you really feel desperate you can declare yourself the winner. Just flip the chessboard over. Get really upset?

I only mentioned Dworkin to show you that they truly were talking about ALL the facets of feminism (if you can't possibly understand that from that post then something is clearly wrong with you because it is not hard to comprehend that I was giving you sources that covered all of feminism). Saying they "even" have an article by Dworkin was to show you that they "even" discuss the only viewpoint that you seem to know about. The only sources you had were some quotes that you googled. That does not prove your point that radical feminism is the only perspective that counts.

Also, You can attack feminsim as much as you like if that makes you happy (that does not upset me...the only thing that upset me was you twisting my words and I've said that a million times); however, you will get called out on misinformation and I am not the only person who has called you out about it. Being called out on misinformation will happen to you and everyone else in life...deal with it. I gave you books to read. If you don't want to read them then so be it. STAY MISINFORMED. However, there is no doubt you ARE MISINFORMED and multiple people in this thread have said it. It's just sad that you plan to stay that way.

Also, it took you 12 hours to come up with this response? You were still in the thread last night after I posted this response. I know you read it because you were in here for a long time and then left. This is all you can think of. Again, I gave you what you wanted. I didn't write those books myself. They very credible sources. You can google it to see if they are credible. It's not hard. The only other thing you can come up with is that same silly argument that I am angry because I am a feminist. AGAIN, THAT IS SILLY AS HELL. If I were a feminist I wouldn't have any problem admitting it. There is nothing wrong with feminism or being a feminist; however, I simply happen to not be one of them. My responses to you are about the ignorance that you continue to show. If that is the only retort you can come up with because I know about feminism then you are just as simple as I thought you were before. You clearly need to be schooled. Hell if you want to use that logic then I am going to call you a woman hater and a fan of oppression for hating feminism and knowing so much about it (again...do you see how silly that sounds).


I also know you read Electric Fur's response last night that highlights the same point I was making all day yesterday. You are misinformed about feminism; however, I see you didn't respond to her (I wonder why). You just want to argue at this point because you don't want to admit you are wrong. EVERYONE sees that you are wrong Daygo.

 

[Zapp Brannigan]

I only mentioned Dworkin to show you that they truly were talking about ALL the facets of feminism (if you can't possibly understand that from that post then something is clearly wrong with you because it is not hard to comprehend that I was giving you sources that covered all of feminism). Saying they "even" have an article by Dworkin was to show you that they "even" discuss the only viewpoint that you seem to know about. The only sources you had were some quotes that you googled. That does not prove your point that radical feminism is the only perspective that counts.

Also, You can attack feminsim as much as you like if that makes you happy (that does not upset me...the only thing that upset me was you twisting my words and I've said that a million times); however, you will get called out on misinformation and I am not the only person who has called you out about it. Being called out on misinformation will happen to you and everyone else in life...deal with it. I gave you books to read. If you don't want to read them then so be it. STAY MISINFORMED. However, there is no doubt you ARE MISINFORMED and multiple people in this thread have said it. It's just sad that you plan to stay that way.

Also, it took you 12 hours to come up with this response? You were still in the thread last night after I posted this response. I know you read it because you were in here for a long time and then left. This is all you can think of. Again, I gave you what you wanted. I didn't write those books myself. They very credible sources. You can google it to see if they are credible. It's not hard. The only other thing you can come up with is that same silly argument that I am angry because I am a feminist. AGAIN, THAT IS SILLY AS HELL. If I were a feminist I wouldn't have any problem admitting it. There is nothing wrong with feminism or being a feminist; however, I simply happen to not be one of them. My responses to you are about the ignorance that you continue to show. If that is the only retort you can come up with because I know about feminism then you are just as simple as I thought you were before. You clearly need to be schooled. Hell if you want to use that logic then I am going to call you a woman hater and a fan of oppression for hating feminism and knowing so much about it (again...do you see how silly that sounds).


I also know you read Electric Fur's response last night that highlights the same point I was making all day yesterday. You are misinformed about feminism; however, I see you didn't respond to her (I wonder why). You just want to argue at this point because you don't want to admit you are wrong. EVERYONE sees that you are wrong Daygo.

So what you're saying is that you want to have your cake and eat it, too. You want me to take feminism seriously despite Dworkin's influence and others like her. You say that my disagreeing with you doesn't upset you, yet you haven't let this go despite you saying that you were going to since yesterday. You insist on "educating" me with some ivory tower lip-service bullshyt, yet you don't really seem to want to see how the ideas of feminism have manifested into the culture and legislation sphere. Seems pretty disingenuous to me.

I guess that I don't have the time that you have to devote to an internet argument on the coli, but that wouldn't really make me less correct than I already am. You are purposefully dismissing the grievances that I had with feminism that I had listed way, way before and how it's about disingenuous man hating, and your only rebuttal is again, a couple feminist scholars who have little to no influence on how the modern state of feminism manifests into reality. Again, you're going to have to leave you office to really see it.

You can't run away from reality. You can't run away from the man hating nature of feminism. You can't run away from the fact that my disagreeing with you upsets you this much because your fervent defense of this ideology certainly says something about it. You can't hide behind a bunch of ad-hominem attacks on me calling me ignorant, because I'm the one who's actually living in reality. I can't take this seriously as a subject of study or an ideology because of what it does to people.

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

So @DaygoTaco how can women get equality without making you feel uncomfortable/angry?

 

[Zapp Brannigan]

So @DaygoTaco how can women get equality without making you feel uncomfortable/angry?

I don't have a problem with equality at all. Maybe you should read my past posts. Oh wait, everyone who disagrees with the fundifeminists is obviously threatened by women having an equal place to men. :wobadass:

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

I don't have a problem with equality at all. Maybe you should read my past posts. Oh wait, everyone who disagrees with the fundifeminists is obviously threatened by women having an equal place to men. :wobadass:

You are the one painting all of feminism as "fundifeminism"

This is like painting Islam as terrorism. Very goofy

Not to mention, where are all the harsh words for all the men crying about wanting to have their cake and eat it too (demanding that their women be breadwinners, traditional housewives, and virgins)

Your whole diatribe here is just another notch on the choppy ass belt of The Coli's anti-female sentiment

 

[Zapp Brannigan]

You are the one painting all of feminism as "fundifeminism"

This is like painting Islam as terrorism. Very goofy

Not to mention, where are all the harsh words for all the men crying about wanting to have their cake and eat it too (demanding that their women be breadwinners, traditional housewives, and virgins)

Your whole diatribe here is just another notch on the choppy ass belt of The Coli's anti-female sentiment

My saying that as a quasi-tongue-in-cheek thing shows that you really can't take things within context and that you haven't read my past posts.

I never once said that I wanted a woman that was a breadwinner (I've almost never seen this), traditional housewife, or a virgin, so don't apply those arguments to me. I never made them.

Being anti-feminist is not the same thing as being anti-female, but I know that the coli feminists like to pretend that people that criticizing feminism is the same thing as hating women to try and shame men out of criticizing feminism. All my criticism was valid and again, the only rebuttal that the feminists have had are unfounded allegations of ignorance and hatred.

Try harder.

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

My saying that as a quasi-tongue-in-cheek thing shows that you really can't take things within context and that you haven't read my past posts.

I never once said that I wanted a woman that was a breadwinner (I've almost never seen this), traditional housewife, or a virgin, so don't apply those arguments to me. I never made them.

Being anti-feminist is not the same thing as being anti-female, but I know that the coli feminists like to pretend that people that criticizing feminism is the same thing as hating women to try and shame men out of criticizing feminism. All my criticism was valid and again, the only rebuttal that the feminists have had are unfounded allegations of ignorance and hatred.

Try harder.

Again, feminism != "fundafeminism", you told on yourself twice in 2 posts.

Hating an ideology by taking its fringe + extreme elements as all its about is pretty silly.

But you go ahead and get the last word in.