Attention:Old Heads

[CrimsonTider]

IMO if u rewind lets say back to 97,u could walk into a music store and go to the hip hop section,pick up the first album u see and not regret buying it. Do that today and I'm pretty sure that sh!t will be tea coster status by the next week

No the fukk you couldn't.

 

[Wacky D]

So what I've gotten out of this threads responses raises 2 new questions.

Do you think that the 90's is the true Golden Era of Hip Hop?

And do you think that both the MCs and Fans of Hip Hop in the 90's are the cause of today's hip hop lacking lyricism? Because when you think about it, no other genre do you have musicians who had there first record come out in the early 90's still doing shows today and coming out with new records, besides a select few.

It seems as if musicians like Nas, Jay-Z, Busta Rhymes, Wu Tang Clan, Snoop Dogg, etc, have disrupted the whole ushering a new era in, by using their already established names down the road, which has resulted in new up and coming MCs realizing that there will be no future for them until these early 90's rappers are gone, so they settle to make a quick buck by making watered down hip hop.

Do you agree? What's your opinion on my assumption?

you ask some good a$$ questions. you need to do interviews or something.

I don't think that theres 1 true golden era. I'd say that theres 3 or 4 different golden eras. the mid '90s being the latest.

the bolded is incorrect actually.

as for the final question, theres nothing wrong with artists continuing to do shows & drop albums. snoop, busta & wutang are non-factors in the sense that theyre not in anybody's way. theyre not stepping on any toes when they get their money.

but it becomes a problem when certain artists try to stay IN THE WAY, even when they know theyre done. dudes like jay-z and all the low-balling & blackballing hes done in order to stay on top. even hindering his own artists. I knew that rappers like him and their tactics would be a problem for hip-hop in the long run. I realized this as far back as 12 years ago.

up until then, as you remember, there used to be a flow in hip-hop. an influx of new artists coming in every year. I made a thread about this on the old site and the newer fans were looking at me like I was crazy until some of us started listing new artists that blew up year-by-year. nowadays, theres not even enough new artists to fill up a "best new artist" category at an awards show without 1 or 2 names that virtually nobody has ever heard of.

i recall a few months back when buttmaster flex & red alert were doing that big '80s mix on Christmas or something. they were talking about how when run dmc, ll cool j and them were out on tour; artists like BDP, eric b & rakim were stepping up and then eventually going for the throne. that nearly brought a tear to my eye because we don't have this anymore. its like, when run dmc started dwindling from a 5 mic group to a 4 mic group and so on, it was cool because chit didn't stop. there were new artists stepping up and dropping classics. rap fans didn't have to lower their standards when they fell off. fans didn't have to cater to rappers. THE RAPPERS CATERED TO THE FANS. as opposed to now where we're forced to pay attention to all the garbage that jay-z has put out in the past 7 years. while random "mixtape rapper that will never blow up" is dropping way hotter songs.

jay, 50, and to a lesser extent - nas & others killed the flow of hip-hop. when their time was up, they were blackballing & low-balling like crazy. dipset never got the mainstream run that they should've had. state property should've become the marquee act on the roc. dblock couldn't get their chit off because of 50 cent pulling strings behind the scenes. thus, you have the death of east coast hip-hop.

and now the whole game is like that. one big buddy system. the same 6 or 8 rappers making the same albums, songs & collaborations over & over & over. huggin & chit. its f*ckin sad. you have to be a real noob to respect the game now.

and then instead of letting the real thurl niccas in, theyre out left in the cold. instead they bring in these industry plants and parade them around as the up-n-comers. and these rappers are quick to cosign them, because no matter how hard they cosign a drake, Kendrick, j.cole, asap crew, wiz khalifa, etc, the people are only gonna give in and accept them but so much. people will forever be more interested in a washed-up wayne, jay, kanye album than a plant's album. and these big time rappers know this.

 

[Wacky D]

No the fukk you couldn't.

meh, i kinda see what @-Quikness- is saying actually.

there weren't many mainstream releases that were legitimately bad, unless it was some sort of flukey artist or an artist that was already . if i as an adult or at least in high school during that time, i probably would've been more reckless with the albums i bought and probably would've copped a lot of random chit just off g.p.

ive seen it done plenty of times on the reg.

 

[CrimsonTider]

meh, i kinda see what @-Quikness- is saying actually.

there weren't many mainstream releases that were legitimately bad, unless it was some sort of flukey artist or an artist that was already . if i as an adult or at least in high school during that time, i probably would've been more reckless with the albums i bought and probably would've copped a lot of random chit just off g.p.

ive seen it done plenty of times on the reg.

There was not as much music back then.

I also people didn't have access to as much music.

so when you got an album back then you played it over and over until it grew on you.

Now a days people listen to shyt 1 time and determine if it is "trash" or "classic"

 

[DANJ!]

IMO if u rewind lets say back to 97,u could walk into a music store and go to the hip hop section,pick up the first album u see and not regret buying it. Do that today and I'm pretty sure that sh!t will be tea coster status by the next week

That's a got-damn lie

By '97, there was already an influx of subpar shyt... in fact, there was always a fair share of shyt that wasn't quite as good as the classics. Y'all nikkas mislead people with these statements like everything was dope. There was quite a number of wack nikkas, we just don't reminisce on most of those because nobody was coppin' their shyt. Everything was 4 and 5 mics, there was a fair share of 2.5 type shyt too- matter fact, the 4 and 5 mic shyt wouldn't have been held in such importance if there wasn't any 2.5 mic shyt out there.

I can guarantee you if I walked into a record store in the mid-90s and picked up just anything, there's a good chance I'da been regrettin' like a muhfukka... especially when there was much better shyt I coulda bought instead.

 

[Poh SIti Dawn]

you ask some good a$$ questions. you need to do interviews or something.

I don't think that theres 1 true golden era. I'd say that theres 3 or 4 different golden eras. the mid '90s being the latest.

the bolded is incorrect actually.

as for the final question, theres nothing wrong with artists continuing to do shows & drop albums. snoop, busta & wutang are non-factors in the sense that theyre not in anybody's way. theyre not stepping on any toes when they get their money.

but it becomes a problem when certain artists try to stay IN THE WAY, even when they know theyre done. dudes like jay-z and all the low-balling & blackballing hes done in order to stay on top. even hindering his own artists. I knew that rappers like him and their tactics would be a problem for hip-hop in the long run. I realized this as far back as 12 years ago.

up until then, as you remember, there used to be a flow in hip-hop. an influx of new artists coming in every year. I made a thread about this on the old site and the newer fans were looking at me like I was crazy until some of us started listing new artists that blew up year-by-year. nowadays, theres not even enough new artists to fill up a "best new artist" category at an awards show without 1 or 2 names that virtually nobody has ever heard of.

i recall a few months back when buttmaster flex & red alert were doing that big '80s mix on Christmas or something. they were talking about how when run dmc, ll cool j and them were out on tour; artists like BDP, eric b & rakim were stepping up and then eventually going for the throne. that nearly brought a tear to my eye because we don't have this anymore. its like, when run dmc started dwindling from a 5 mic group to a 4 mic group and so on, it was cool because chit didn't stop. there were new artists stepping up and dropping classics. rap fans didn't have to lower their standards when they fell off. fans didn't have to cater to rappers. THE RAPPERS CATERED TO THE FANS. as opposed to now where we're forced to pay attention to all the garbage that jay-z has put out in the past 7 years. while random "mixtape rapper that will never blow up" is dropping way hotter songs.

jay, 50, and to a lesser extent - nas & others killed the flow of hip-hop. when their time was up, they were blackballing & low-balling like crazy. dipset never got the mainstream run that they should've had. state property should've become the marquee act on the roc. dblock couldn't get their chit off because of 50 cent pulling strings behind the scenes. thus, you have the death of east coast hip-hop.

and now the whole game is like that. one big buddy system. the same 6 or 8 rappers making the same albums, songs & collaborations over & over & over. huggin & chit. its f*ckin sad. you have to be a real noob to respect the game now.

and then instead of letting the real thurl niccas in, theyre out left in the cold. instead they bring in these industry plants and parade them around as the up-n-comers. and these rappers are quick to cosign them, because no matter how hard they cosign a drake, Kendrick, j.cole, asap crew, wiz khalifa, etc, the people are only gonna give in and accept them but so much. people will forever be more interested in a washed-up wayne, jay, kanye album than a plant's album. and these big time rappers know this.

Thank you.


I think that there's a problem with artists like Snoop and the Wu sticking around, why? Because it prevents fans from moving on and discovering new up & comers. Coming from a West Coast perspective, we've been able to rely on Snoop for mainstream without having to search for up & comers. Can you imagine how the West Coast scene would be if Snoop were to retire? I could see A&Rs being forced to go out and discover new talent that has some sort of longevity, rather than going online and finding the next "big thing". Excuse me if my statement seems far fetched, but I can imagine Hip Hop being like Frances revolution in 1789, the French would not have been able to progress if King Louis wasn't executed, I'm not saying Snoop or various 90's artists should be killed but still lol.

As for the Jay, 50, etc black balling in the industry, do you think this is particularly a New York thing? Is it New York MCs that are preventing up & comers from flourishing? Is New York to blame for Hip Hop being stuck and not evolving?

 

[hex]

Thank you.

I think that there's a problem with artists like Snoop and the Wu sticking around, why? Because it prevents fans from moving on and discovering new up & comers. Coming from a West Coast perspective, we've been able to rely on Snoop for mainstream without having to search for up & comers. Can you imagine how the West Coast scene would be if Snoop were to retire? I could see A&Rs being forced to go out and discover new talent that has some sort of longevity, rather than going online and finding the next "big thing". Excuse me if my statement seems far fetched, but I can imagine Hip Hop being like Frances revolution in 1789, the French would not have been able to progress if King Louis wasn't executed, I'm not saying Snoop or various 90's artists should be killed but still lol.

I disagree 100%. If people want the "old guard" to retire, young cats need to make them retire. Nas was seen as "the next Rakim". Who is the next Wu-Tang? Or the next Snoop? These guys are supposed to just give up and step aside, even though nobody did that for them? Even though they made a name for themselves and became legends in an era when everybody was trying to be #1 ?

Fred.

 

[Yoda]

There was not as much music back then.

I also people didn't have access to as much music.

so when you got an album back then you played it over and over until it grew on you.

Now a days people listen to shyt 1 time and determine if it is "trash" or "classic"

realest shyt i ever seen you post, and you a homo dikk suciking fool.

 

[tremonthustler1]

that hasn't evolved either.

most of the beats now sound cheap, cheesy, simple & shabby. and that's mostly because everybody is a "producer" now. its nothing to see somebody with a bum @$$ beat program on their computer. and these are the type cats that are getting on now. nobody even knows the names of the producers anymore. lol. nobody cares.

I mean theres always a few beats that come out every year that are str8 pushing the envelope and make me go . and then theres always a few tapes out there where a producer may have knocked most of the beats out and got his chit off.

but on the overall tip, the production game is

Production HAD to evolve. You can't just layer sample on top of a sample the way it used to be. That played such a major role in how rap sounds. Now you have to sound futuristic to a fault. The way beats are made now simply can't match what they used to be inherently.

Could you imagine hip-hop now if it weren't for sample clearance rules?

 

[Taadow]

I was born in 86 and the way I see it, is I'm agreeing with dudes who said that music during that time period, we just absorbed it and enjoyed it and weren't worried about legacy and if something would stand the test of time, we just listened to it and enjoyed it. When I had it was written on cassette or copped aquemini on the same day that vol 2 and the love movement came out, I wasn't worried about if it would change anything or if anyone else would like it, I just liked it and wanted to make sure I absorbed everything. I'd say the big difference with this current generation of fans and the older generation is that we were able to just enjoy the music more and really let it sink in. How can you really get the full weight of an album if you're going to move to to the next album or next mixtape tomorrow or the week after?

Also, we didn't disrespect the cats from the 80s and constantly try to prove that the dudes from the 90s were better. I remember seeing dudes only a couple years older than me discussing if Nas or BIG or Pac could hold a candle to Rakim, KRS-One or Kane and just because Nas BIG and Pac were of our era, not everyone agreed that they were better than the dudes who came before them. Personally, I was always more inclined to see what came before my era in order to get a better understanding of what I'm currently listening to and it seems like a lot of fans now just dismiss what came before them or constantly have a chip on their shoulder to prove their generation is better. When dudes call albums classics out the gate, something ain't right.

This is the most succint and accurate awnser for myself.

 

[-Quikness-]

That's a got-damn lie

By '97, there was already an influx of subpar shyt... in fact, there was always a fair share of shyt that wasn't quite as good as the classics. Y'all nikkas mislead people with these statements like everything was dope. There was quite a number of wack nikkas, we just don't reminisce on most of those because nobody was coppin' their shyt. Everything was 4 and 5 mics, there was a fair share of 2.5 type shyt too- matter fact, the 4 and 5 mic shyt wouldn't have been held in such importance if there wasn't any 2.5 mic shyt out there.

I can guarantee you if I walked into a record store in the mid-90s and picked up just anything, there's a good chance I'da been regrettin' like a muhfukka... especially when there was much better shyt I coulda bought instead.

No the fukk you couldn't.

@ the hate LOL

I'm only speaking from personal experience. Obviously u couldn't buy absolutely anything and not regret it,but I'm sayin back then compared to now those stores had ALOT more quality on offer

 

[FreshAIG]

Why is this stickied?

 

[Wacky D]

There was not as much music back then.

I also people didn't have access to as much music.

so when you got an album back then you played it over and over until it grew on you.

Now a days people listen to shyt 1 time and determine if it is "trash" or "classic"

there was more music back then actually.

and yes, people had access to the music. if you didn't buy it out the store, you either bought a bootleg for cheap, or you caught a dub. of if you wanted to be a bad-a$$, you stole the chit.

I disagree 100%. If people want the "old guard" to retire, young cats need to make them retire. Nas was seen as "the next Rakim". Who is the next Wu-Tang? Or the next Snoop? These guys are supposed to just give up and step aside, even though nobody did that for them? Even though they made a name for themselves and became legends in an era when everybody was trying to be #1 ?

Fred.

nah. that aspect of the game is dead. the competitive & cultural aspects are gone.

rakim didn't force his way into staying in the spotlight when his time was up. he didn't blackball anybody. he didn't put money on big daddy kane's head. he didn't sign up other rappers and have them sit on the shelf while he shined. and as soon as he dropped an album that was generally received as a dud, he started to dwindle. if the game was the way it was back then, illmatic would be a classic mixtape, and most of the newer fans that hold illmatic in high-regard, would instead be downplaying its legacy and referring to him as just some mixtape rapper. hell, most of them wouldn't even know about nas.

lets be real: jay, nas, 50, etc. these guys have been washed for a decade now. why are they still the main ones making headlines and getting all the camera time? on a street level, theres been 2 - going on 3 eras of rappers that done came out and outclassed them. and theyre not getting any shine. meek millz is the only exception and that's because rick ross had the foresight to put down somewhat of a new blueprint for how rap labels could be run, which is why MMG is the definitive crew of this era(which isn't hard to come by, but still). otherwise, meek would've still been a dude with radio hits in the Delaware valley and youtube's videos posted on message boards that never got that shot.

Thank you.


I think that there's a problem with artists like Snoop and the Wu sticking around, why? Because it prevents fans from moving on and discovering new up & comers. Coming from a West Coast perspective, we've been able to rely on Snoop for mainstream without having to search for up & comers. Can you imagine how the West Coast scene would be if Snoop were to retire? I could see A&Rs being forced to go out and discover new talent that has some sort of longevity, rather than going online and finding the next "big thing". Excuse me if my statement seems far fetched, but I can imagine Hip Hop being like Frances revolution in 1789, the French would not have been able to progress if King Louis wasn't executed, I'm not saying Snoop or various 90's artists should be killed but still lol.

As for the Jay, 50, etc black balling in the industry, do you think this is particularly a New York thing? Is it New York MCs that are preventing up & comers from flourishing? Is New York to blame for Hip Hop being stuck and not evolving?

meh, I would leave wutang out of this. theyre not a factor. they have a dedicated army of die-hard fans that will support them no matter what, and theyre cashing in. outside of that, nobody is really checking for them, nor are they holding other rappers back. let them eat.

I don't know about snoop. I know west coast rappers were mad at the elder statesmen for not putting people on, but I havnt heard much about them being held back.

That's a got-damn lie

By '97, there was already an influx of subpar shyt... in fact, there was always a fair share of shyt that wasn't quite as good as the classics. Y'all nikkas mislead people with these statements like everything was dope. There was quite a number of wack nikkas, we just don't reminisce on most of those because nobody was coppin' their shyt. Everything was 4 and 5 mics, there was a fair share of 2.5 type shyt too- matter fact, the 4 and 5 mic shyt wouldn't have been held in such importance if there wasn't any 2.5 mic shyt out there.

I can guarantee you if I walked into a record store in the mid-90s and picked up just anything, there's a good chance I'da been regrettin' like a muhfukka... especially when there was much better shyt I coulda bought instead.

yea, but you pretty much knew what albums to stay away from, and there were a plethora of albums that you could've randomly purchased with no regret.

that's what I took from buddy's post, at least.

Production HAD to evolve. You can't just layer sample on top of a sample the way it used to be. That played such a major role in how rap sounds. Now you have to sound futuristic to a fault. The way beats are made now simply can't match what they used to be inherently.

Could you imagine hip-hop now if it weren't for sample clearance rules?

it evolved into what tho?

when something evolves, it improves. it moves on to some next-level chit.

change & evolution aren't necessarily the same.

I mean, theres always some next-level beats floating around but as a whole, the production game is sub-par now. most people don't even care who produces most of these records anymore.

 

[CrimsonTider]

there was more music back then actually.

and yes, people had access to the music. if you didn't buy it out the store, you either bought a bootleg for cheap, or you caught a dub. of if you wanted to be a bad-a$$, you stole the chit.



nah. that aspect of the game is dead. the competitive & cultural aspects are gone.

rakim didn't force his way into staying in the spotlight when his time was up. he didn't blackball anybody. he didn't put money on big daddy kane's head. he didn't sign up other rappers and have them sit on the shelf while he shined. and as soon as he dropped an album that was generally received as a dud, he started to dwindle. if the game was the way it was back then, illmatic would be a classic mixtape, and most of the newer fans that hold illmatic in high-regard, would instead be downplaying its legacy and referring to him as just some mixtape rapper. hell, most of them wouldn't even know about nas.

lets be real: jay, nas, 50, etc. these guys have been washed for a decade now. why are they still the main ones making headlines and getting all the camera time? on a street level, theres been 2 - going on 3 eras of rappers that done came out and outclassed them. and theyre not getting any shine. meek millz is the only exception and that's because rick ross had the foresight to put down somewhat of a new blueprint for how rap labels could be run, which is why MMG is the definitive crew of this era(which isn't hard to come by, but still). otherwise, meek would've still been a dude with radio hits in the Delaware valley and youtube's videos posted on message boards that never got that shot.



meh, I would leave wutang out of this. theyre not a factor. they have a dedicated army of die-hard fans that will support them no matter what, and theyre cashing in. outside of that, nobody is really checking for them, nor are they holding other rappers back. let them eat.

I don't know about snoop. I know west coast rappers were mad at the elder statesmen for not putting people on, but I havnt heard much about them being held back.



yea, but you pretty much knew what albums to stay away from, and there were a plethora of albums that you could've randomly purchased with no regret.

that's what I took from buddy's post, at least.



it evolved into what tho?

when something evolves, it improves. it moves on to some next-level chit.

change & evolution aren't necessarily the same.

I mean, theres always some next-level beats floating around but as a whole, the production game is sub-par now. most people don't even care who produces most of these records anymore.

Are you seriously telling me there was more rap music in 97 verses 2013?

 

[Wacky D]

Are you seriously telling me there was more rap music in 97 verses 2013?

when I say that there was more music coming out in '97, im talking music.

im not counting the joe schmoe's that buy a bunch of blank discs, create an album cover and upload their music and cam-corder videos to youtubes.