Attention:Old Heads

[Yoda]

When any classic record dropped.
You knew it was a classic,as soon as it dropped.
Classics are and will forever be like that.
Off the first spin, you know it is a classic.

Wu-tang, for instance was so prolific.
I remember in late 92, when the shyt came on hpk.
I still have the tape and its original broadcast.
I still remember waiting a whole year for the twelve inch.
Back then, culturally you knew artist were relevant and skilled in that early part of the nineties.
To the point you knew the record would be crazy or a classic off one single
alone.
Now, the rappers nowadays are all offkey, and technically inferior and dated.
To the point,...finesse with mike smooth sounds like it is forty years in the future lyrically.
Not to mention, how he up'd skill on the awakening.
Also,...
Back then the rise in skill level was also a distinct attraction for an established culturally relevant artist.
So, on the second joint...
You always checked and immediately noticed how dope the skills had gotten.
Now, this Gen of rapper never improves and never champions the culture.
So, you get inferior skilled submissions, with no upside and no further attraction to their draw.
Back then, every emcee improved.
Especially, rae and gf,..who on the original incarnation of the 36, were both offkey and close to the weak link in the clan.
Except they both up'd skill to unseen levels way beyond anyone could have ever thought.
Plus,brought covert slang into rap which pretty much has been decyphered and become standard speak, for rap as a whole on obfcl.
Back then,...
You had no real idea or ability to decipher wu as clearly as you do now.
Ater twenty years of reference.
Plus, the entire industry biting their content and scope after obfcl.
Which also,...allowed the new school way of thought to allow the content.
Which before then was given a negative because of old school way of thought principles after cowboys death.
When, ot came to drugs.
Which is also,..why early southern artist and west coast artist.
Suffered from backlash culturally, as well.
For not adhere'n to the issues of drug and the monumental death of cowboy.
Of which mobb deep provided and got over first, with a bit of negative scrutiny.
Then, obfcl totally by way of intrigue to slang, content,mystique and production.
Allowed the soothing of the lines to allow more dopeboi content and characters to be accepted from a cultural standpoint.
Which then, gave way to sellout jiggy rappers with street content.
Which was all from coc/yaggfu/umc's being labeled the first Wu tang biters.
Where even,...jay arose from.
In his seeking put big l to improve as well.
Who floated the line of credible artist.
Which was added onto the line of nas biters.
Before wu's impact globally.
Only one male rapper and one female rapper were given passes all together, at that exact time.
Fat Joe, and Lauren for lifting nas.
Both were on two sides of the spectrum.
One was the highest selling artist in a group, soon to be the highest selling in all of music as a solo, in Lauren.
The other was the somehow ghostwritten accepted draw of fat joe from ditc.
Besides that, any other artist found out to have culturally damning situations.
before those five artist, was pretty much irrelevemt culturally and a non-draw because of it.
Biz is/still one of the few first exceptions.
Yet, his style of music was so profound and part of a profound collective.
Nobody ever raised or compared biz's situation to fat joe's.
When ideally they are one in the same.
Except, fat joe never had biz's natural mic presence or ability to sell a record to the point you never minded.
So outside of a few situations.
If you were not culturally relevant,mindfull or respectful.
You would not be given the props at all.
Let alone build a career that would draw past your first project.
After hammer and ice were thwarted.

If rap would have kept its cultural connection, as artists and bboys/bgirls artistically.
Rap could have re-righted itself and owned its own real cultural grassroots platinum status.
To the point mad never had to make a sellout iww type of record.
Nas would have went double off the strength of culturally relevance, quality of record and skills.
With no commercial damning record.
Which should have taken a hit like miss Jones did for the original don't take it personal.
Yet, az's sugarhill offered the first debut high selling credible lyricist rnb collab.
Which, probably influenced nas's cover of if I ruled the world with a deploy whodini drop and Lauren.
Nas could have just dropped another large pro, based single with sample hook.
Plus still sold,...platinum.

Devoid of the addition of Leo Burnett's hip hop fueled global marketing run.
Plus, rap would have created its own real sales spike era.
Without payola or sellout jiggy acts preying on the emotional loss of big.
To the point,...
Even if all the sellout shyt occurred.
The culture if left unscathed and link to rap.
Would have easily rebounded from this current time as well.
Yet, since commercial jiggy-ism, culture thievery and a revenue cash grab all occurred at the same time.
From a concerted effort with industry support.
It eliminated the culture from using the protection mechanism to put everything back into balance.
Since that was disturbed, it made everything go awry.
Plus allowed for toy nikkas and sellout's bytchassness.
To become the prevalent ideal connected to rap.
Which now acted devoid of hip hop.
Rap is now just pretty much rnb without any cultural connection.
Which means it will fall prey to what the cultureless rnb draw did.
Which is fakkitry/house/disco pagan-fruitbooty garbage.
Which rap and the culture of hip hop was the anti-thesis of.
As far back as herc vs hollywood.
Which is why Hollywood is never credited with being the godfather or originator of this culture.
As he and his parties had no culture.
Whereas herc provided a dancehall/roots/ tribal connection to people socially devoid of commercial highpoat bullshyt.
Now, there really is no way to re-right rap as a draw.
As it has been sucks into rnb.
Which was a business model it was firmly juxtaposed from in creation and inception.
rap was made so,...
As a business it would he backed by a culture.
To prevent the bullshyt that occurred and poisoned the music industry and the world in the first place.
Which was disco fakkitry and malicious business practices.
That ruined the cultural and artistic submissions and integrity of people from impoverished beginnings.





Art Barr

cotdaaaamnnn

 

[wire28]

convention

And the refusal to accept the few good rappers we have today to make themselves feel better about the rappers of the past

 

[RajWatts]

yo like what the fukk is u talmbout i dont even know i noticed u said some shyt about wutang and whatnot namsayin but i aint tryna read thru that whole bullshyt azz paragraph u typed without no breaks in between like i aint tryna read that plehboi this aint the hunga games and i aint finna sit down wit no books but i jus wanna know is u disrespectin the wu cuz that aint cool but wut da fukk was u sayin bout dub c and westside connections cuz them cats right there is legends and u best not be throwin shots at legends cuz they started this shyt and they finna end this shyt so go listen to some lil b or sumshyt cuz u young heads aint no shyt about dis

 

[MartyMcFly]

I was born in 86 and the way I see it, is I'm agreeing with dudes who said that music during that time period, we just absorbed it and enjoyed it and weren't worried about legacy and if something would stand the test of time, we just listened to it and enjoyed it. When I had it was written on cassette or copped aquemini on the same day that vol 2 and the love movement came out, I wasn't worried about if it would change anything or if anyone else would like it, I just liked it and wanted to make sure I absorbed everything. I'd say the big difference with this current generation of fans and the older generation is that we were able to just enjoy the music more and really let it sink in. How can you really get the full weight of an album if you're going to move to to the next album or next mixtape tomorrow or the week after?

Also, we didn't disrespect the cats from the 80s and constantly try to prove that the dudes from the 90s were better. I remember seeing dudes only a couple years older than me discussing if Nas or BIG or Pac could hold a candle to Rakim, KRS-One or Kane and just because Nas BIG and Pac were of our era, not everyone agreed that they were better than the dudes who came before them. Personally, I was always more inclined to see what came before my era in order to get a better understanding of what I'm currently listening to and it seems like a lot of fans now just dismiss what came before them or constantly have a chip on their shoulder to prove their generation is better. When dudes call albums classics out the gate, something ain't right.

 

[AgentGrey]

Its just the natural instinct to give the younger kids a hard time on everything. Look at kids around you, and notice how you shyt on them unnecessarily. Its a right of passage almost.

And in regards to the music, you had party music then just like you do now. I cant stand how yall can compare classic Wu n shyt like that of the 90s to Trinidad James and similar garbage artists as if they are the flagship of our generation
Thats like comparing Sir Mix-a-lot with Kendrick.

 

[Atsym Sknyfs]

I don't think its a matter of us thinking about somebody being a GOAT or an album being a classic. For me it was always about whether or not it was dope. Plus we had the variety to go along with it. Besides with no innernet to download from my money was way more valuable and the artists knew that. Now they release so much much free stuff i dont even think they value their own product anymore.

We didnt pick something to be the greatest... if its dope its dope.. and dopeness will always stand the test of time. ex. Thriller was plain hot... and almost 30 years later its still hot and new generations experience it and feel the same way.

 

[CHITLING flavored CEREAL]

as far as joey badass & the pro era dudes go, I wouldn't say that theyre raising the bar. theres alot of spitters. that aspect of the game never died out. dudes just aint getting deals no more because these labels wanna push bullchit. joey was just fortunate enough to be down with a major management team. not trying to downplay him. I think he has a bright future, but hes not light-years ahead of his peers. just the ones that are actually on.


as for the thread, i was born in '85. have always been in tune with hip-hop as well. been listening since the '80s. during that time period in the '90s that you speak of, we generally weren't concerned with legacies of the newer rappers. we waited until they got more years & albums under their belts. just like now with football: as great as calvin Johnson is, nobody is comparing him to the all-time greats yet.

as far as classic albums go, people weren't quick to call something classic either. just the all-time elite stuff that you just knew were classics right away. basically just the albums that end up in your top 10 or close to it. the rest of the classics became classics over time, while other albums that were loved, may not have aged well enough to earn that classic title over time.

nowadays, I think alot of younger fans are quick to label something a classic or someone as legendary because they see older cats talking about the '80s & '90s and want to feel like theyre apart of something great as well. especially on this board where people will call an average album a classic before it even hits stores. its just forced and not organic.

this sums it up perfectly.....only time proves whats classic and whats not

I dont have the time to type the paragraphs it would take to break it down but I just had a debate about this on Memorial Day. The bar is really low and the potency of it lessens everyday. That is what happens when art forms become businesses controlled by corporations. They take something thats 100% use 60% of it and try to pass it off as the whole 100% when its actually a strained 60% but to the untrained eye its the full 100%

When wu-tang dropped it was different but is was good. They all had skills and they moved to the beat of their own drum. They were undeniable as a force. All their classics they got were not called classic instantly like cats say now. I was bumping enter the 36 chambers like it came out yesterday for years. thats a classic.Classics stand the test of time.

Most of the rappers now are go with the flow rappers with no lyrical ability backed by a machine telling you that they're hip-hop. They've watered down the value of skill. An average rapper from 94 can out rap any rapper popping now. They dumbed the people down so hard now.

dumbed the people down to the point where its divided hip hop...

The men are talking. lipstick alley is way

 

[Wacky D]

convention

And the refusal to accept the few good rappers we have today to make themselves feel better about the rappers of the past

do you realize that you completely obliterated your "argument" with the bolded?

 

[Dzali OG]

I'm bout to give yall some reall spit...I was born in 74 so I was a grown man in the 90's, not a jit listening to my big brother play wu.

In 94 if you put on Kane or Biz or even a lot of the other classic 80's stuff nikkas would look at you like you were stupid. Reason being...their time had passed and we were on to the next shyt. So we shytted on our elders too (at that point) just keeping it funky. Now we would admit that it was hittin in their day at least.

Our elders had to be believed to be able to make the jump into the current generation as we believed artists like Rakim could. That's why he was ol skool but we thought he could transition into the 90's.

There were artists we thought COULDN'T make the jump but they did such as LL and EPMD. Both of which were considered old skool shyt and irrelevant in the 90's but they show and proved. So yeah we were just as rebellious!

We weren't concerned with labeling anything classic. All we wanted was that fresh shyt and it better be hittin! If not we moved on to the next.

Problem with this generation is artist don't know who to market too. Back then you knew who the hip hop audience was and what they wanted to hear. Now, in pursuit of the dollar, artists trying to capture everyones dollar which is impossible. The hip hop circle is so small, people concentrating on getting POP fans money. In other words the crossover. Rappers then were wary of that and not trying to go Diamond!

The attitude was you will like my shyt or you won't. If you do, cool we can rock and if you don't well fukk you, you're not hip hop any way! Now artists are chasing the fans on some please like my shyt! I need to go Diamond in sales!

In closing...really there are very few classic albums and most people don't know what a classic is. To me, a classic is can I throw it on at a family reunion and every one enjoy and bow down to it! Like some of Pac's songs like "Keep Ya Head Up". Though most people are referring to hip hop classic which opens the door wider.

 

[muzikfrk75]

I had a homie who's brother dj'ed, and I remember when he played Protect Your Neck for us. that shyt was amazing. it had that 'old school' feel, but it was fresh and new at the same time. then he played us the b-side...

When i first heard 'M.E.T.H.O.D. M.A.N.' i literally felt like it was the best rap song i'd ever heard at the moment. I can't even really describe how important that feel was. Wu took all the 80's aesthetics and brought it right up to a 90's speed.

I knew they were the GOAT instantly.

Protect Ya Neck was dope, but B-Side won again with "Method Man" the first time I heard that (was on college radio) I knew they were gonna be a problem. Plus Wu was repping their elders in interviews saying that they were inspired by the Juice Crew.

First time I heard the beat to Criminology

 

[daze23]

B-Side won again

 

[wire28]

do you realize that you completely obliterated your "argument" with the bolded?

what did i argue? that our generation was killin it? my argument is era hates on everything today

 

[-Quikness-]

IMO if u rewind lets say back to 97,u could walk into a music store and go to the hip hop section,pick up the first album u see and not regret buying it. Do that today and I'm pretty sure that sh!t will be tea coster status by the next week

 

[Poh SIti Dawn]

I was born in 86 and the way I see it, is I'm agreeing with dudes who said that music during that time period, we just absorbed it and enjoyed it and weren't worried about legacy and if something would stand the test of time, we just listened to it and enjoyed it. When I had it was written on cassette or copped aquemini on the same day that vol 2 and the love movement came out, I wasn't worried about if it would change anything or if anyone else would like it, I just liked it and wanted to make sure I absorbed everything. I'd say the big difference with this current generation of fans and the older generation is that we were able to just enjoy the music more and really let it sink in. How can you really get the full weight of an album if you're going to move to to the next album or next mixtape tomorrow or the week after?

Also, we didn't disrespect the cats from the 80s and constantly try to prove that the dudes from the 90s were better. I remember seeing dudes only a couple years older than me discussing if Nas or BIG or Pac could hold a candle to Rakim, KRS-One or Kane and just because Nas BIG and Pac were of our era, not everyone agreed that they were better than the dudes who came before them. Personally, I was always more inclined to see what came before my era in order to get a better understanding of what I'm currently listening to and it seems like a lot of fans now just dismiss what came before them or constantly have a chip on their shoulder to prove their generation is better. When dudes call albums classics out the gate, something ain't right.

So what I've gotten out of this threads responses raises 2 new questions.

Do you think that the 90's is the true Golden Era of Hip Hop?

And do you think that both the MCs and Fans of Hip Hop in the 90's are the cause of today's hip hop lacking lyricism? Because when you think about it, no other genre do you have musicians who had there first record come out in the early 90's still doing shows today and coming out with new records, besides a select few.

It seems as if musicians like Nas, Jay-Z, Busta Rhymes, Wu Tang Clan, Snoop Dogg, etc, have disrupted the whole ushering a new era in, by using their already established names down the road, which has resulted in new up and coming MCs realizing that there will be no future for them until these early 90's rappers are gone, so they settle to make a quick buck by making watered down hip hop.

Do you agree? What's your opinion on my assumption?

 

[Wacky D]

what did i argue? that our generation was killin it? my argument is era hates on everything today

that's not true.

and the gripes aren't even with the era specifically. its with the industry.

the longer people keep brushing this off as "old people complaining" instead of addressing the real issues, things will continue to get worst.

if people keep smoking dirt weed, im gonna continue to sell it to them. why would I care about quality?