Be Real, Bret Hart Is Not Top 5

[Liquid]

The problem with Bret Hart is that he got that Hogan attitude in where he was out of control and felt entitled to always being on top or very near the top for his entire career.

The business does not work like that and while I think Bret was one of the very best technical wrestlers his attitude prevents me from putting him top 5 all time. It might seem unfair, but it is what it is.

 

[CJ]

The problem with Bret Hart is that he got that Hogan attitude in where he was out of control and felt entitled to always being on top or very near the top for his entire career.

The business does not work like that and while I think Bret was one of the very best technical wrestlers his attitude prevents me from putting him top 5 all time. It might seem unfair, but it is what it is.

To avoid a long rebuttal based on Bret's terrible place holder regins which would validate why he should have felt that way, I will say this instead: If Austin, Flair, HBK, or HHH are in your top 5, the bolded becomes a very moot point.

 

[R=G]

He's in my personal top 5 of all-time, along with Rock,Austin, Savage and Sting, but i can easily see why someone would have a Angle, Taker, Flair or Steamboat ahead of him on their lists, but he's most DEFINITELY top 10 without question.


He was over HUGE after his heel turn in 97', and was second only to Steve Austin in the entire WWF in terms of crowd reactions, but yea by 98' when he got to WCW he was and an afterthought, which wasn't really his fault.

They were turning on Bret for Austin for the majority of the year. He was over as a whiner anti American heel but he didnt turn the tide, did he? He was forced out and he couldnt carry the screw over heat. It was quite sad to be honest.

 

[Liquid]

To avoid a long rebuttal based on Bret's terrible place holder regins which would validate why he should have felt that way, I will say this instead: If Austin, Flair, HBK, or HHH are in your top 5, the bolded becomes a very moot point.

I think Austin holds a special place in the hearts of WWE fans because he was primarily the reason the WWE was able to stay afloat while WCW was winning the monday night wars. He started the attitude era

HBK/HHH were very important with the DX movement. I wouldn't put HHH in my top 5.

Ric Flair is tough because he has been an important member in many promotions throughout his career, but I would not put him in the top 5.

I cant really comment on anything in the past decade or so, but yeah. I just felt I needed to chime in on Bret Hart...was one my favorites growing up.

 

[Artificial Intelligence]

.......................

 

[Rarely-Wrong Liggins]

Bret saw his talent before anyone else did:

Bret Hart vs Stone Cold Steve Austin - Kuwait 1996 - YouTube

Remember he was now "retired" as he just lost the belt to Shawn. He still did these matches on the World Tour to help StoneGOAT along. They then built the storyline for his return at SS96.

The Harts stay developing talent, even when it's not their own blood I miss when Austin use to sell like this. shyt was comical.

The crowd.
That heel heat for Austin

 

[CJ]

They were turning on Bret for Austin for the majority of the year. He was over as a whiner anti American heel but he didnt turn the tide, did he? He was forced out and he couldnt carry the screw over heat. It was quite sad to be honest.

I'd say he turned over the tide pretty damn well during that feud. Look at the heat he was getting, whether it's cheers or boos, he was over. nikka was getting pennies thrown at him and spit on.

And how could he have carried over his MTL screwjob heat? He was kept off camera for over a month before his WCW debut, and when he was brought on it was in a terribly botched finish at Starrcade. To follow that up, his first feud was with Ric Flair. Talk about a momentum killer. That was on WCW, not Bret. He was booked like absolutely shyt I don't even think D-Bry coulda wiggled his way out of that trash.

 

[Scotch Hall]

Bret saw his talent before anyone else did:

Bret Hart vs Stone Cold Steve Austin - Kuwait 1996 - YouTube

Remember he was now "retired" as he just lost the belt to Shawn. He still did these matches on the World Tour to help StoneGOAT along. They then built the storyline for his return at SS96.

The Harts stay developing talent, even when it's not their own blood I miss when Austin use to sell like this. shyt was comical.

YO I have that wwf tape from 96 they called it world tour in the us though

 

[ecks12]

The Best there is The Best There was The Best there ever will be.

 

[R=G]

I'd say he turned over the tide pretty damn well during that feud. Look at the heat he was getting, whether it's cheers or boos, he was over. nikka was getting pennies thrown at him and spit on.

And how could he have carried over his MTL screwjob heat? He was kept off camera for over a month before his WCW debut, and when he was brought on it was in a terribly botched finish at Starrcade. To follow that up, his first feud was with Ric Flair. Talk about a momentum killer. That was on WCW, not Bret. He was booked like absolutely shyt I don't even think D-Bry coulda wiggled his way out of that trash.

He was Bret Hart and apparently got a BIG CONTRACT..one that Hogan looking disgusted on that DVD. If he wanted to be on TV in a major, he could of pushed it through by WANTING it. That's the difference between guys like him and Austin/Rocks....they couldn't be stopped. Rock shouldn't be who he is. He was, at most, supposed to be midcard face in the eyes of the company but he went to Ross and was turned heel. Then he went buck wild with every opportunity he got. Bret was content to be US Champion and be involved in some wack shyt. The drive and want wasn't there...if they didn't want to play ball, he should of just went home and collected big checks because his legacy and outlook was looking shaky by being involved with Warrior tag team matches and that type of nonsense.

 

[captaincharisma]

but isn't kurt angle a better version of bret hart?

 

[dbp]

He was Bret Hart and apparently got a BIG CONTRACT..one that Hogan looking disgusted on that DVD. If he wanted to be on TV in a major, he could of pushed it through by WANTING it. That's the difference between guys like him and Austin/Rocks....they couldn't be stopped. Rock shouldn't be who he is. He was, at most, supposed to be midcard face in the eyes of the company but he went to Ross and was turned heel. Then he went buck wild with every opportunity he got. Bret was content to be US Champion and be involved in some wack shyt. The drive and want wasn't there...if they didn't want to play ball, he should of just went home and collected big checks because his legacy and outlook was looking shaky by being involved with Warrior tag team matches and that type of nonsense.

In his book, he claimed that he fought over many stupid booking decisions and outright refused certain things because they were such nonsense crash TV. He constantly complained about not being able to contribute.

There's only so much you can do. Austin and Rock had their breakthrough moments, but if the 'E *insisted* that they stay as the ringmaster and blue chipper Rocky Maivia, then they weren't breaking out either.

It's easy to say that either the booker or the talent has total control. It's a mix of both.

 

[krackdagawd]

but isn't kurt angle a better version of bret hart?

Pretty much.

I fukk with Hitman though and he is definitely top 10 MAYBE top 5 if we are strictly coming from a wrestling standpoint.

 

[NkrumahWasRight Is Wrong]

Bret is top 5 in skill and was potentially top 5 all time but didnt sustain that peak. He was a catalyst for their most successful era and held it down during an avg/bad one but didnt do anything in wcw...and probably was indicative of an inability to diversify his character enough to be top 5 even if he stayed in wwf. Lower end of top ten, no lower than 12 or so

 

[CJ]

Is Kurt Angle really a better version though? I fukks with Kurt, and have him slipping in and out of my personal top 5.. but he was only as good as his opponent, unless someone can point out matches he's had with scrubs that turned out to be solid, which Bret was able to do consistently. His mic/promo work was > to Bret, I'll give him that. Anything wrestling match related wise, I give Bret the edge on his ability to craft a match that looked as real as possible. I don't think Kurt's 5 decent years in the E should put him ahead of Bret, and anything I've seen of his in TNA run has been cookie cut.