Charles Barkley - "The NBA is the worst it's ever been"

[Mantis Toboggan M.D.]

No, the quality of games would decrease rapidly if you have the zone in conjunction with handchecking, they had to get rid of handchecking once the zone was implemented because the scores for games started to plummet. Teams started to use zone principles with handchecking and it led to some horrible playoff series like the 03-04 Pistons/Pacers series where the teams put up these numbers -

Words don't do justice how the league was from 1999-2007 really when it comes to offense save for just a few teams

 

[jwinfield]

20 years from now cats gonna be talking about how Paul's Clippers, PG's Pacers, the Raptors, Atlanta, Memphis and that 57 win Nuggets team were contenders

 

[Mantis Toboggan M.D.]

20 years from now cats gonna be talking about how Paul's Clippers, PG's Pacers, the Raptors, Atlanta, Memphis and that 57 win Nuggets team were contenders

Nah dudes are still gonna be hyping up those 90's Knicks and Pacers struggle ball teams with that same garbage you hear now about they'd get in these kids heads and make them cry

 

[Gravity]

Good look on calming all that silly shyt down and sticking to the points like a man.

How is winning a conference and eventually the entire chip in back to back years not running said conference? Once again how deep is a league if you got 2 teams that win 8 straight chips? It's like talking about how deep a team is but they only play 6 players. In the last 7 seasons 5 different teams from the West have made the Finals and unlike back then 4 of them actually won the whole thing.

These teams below
Eastern Conference W L W/L% GB PS/G PA/G SRS
Atlantic Division
Miami Heat* (2) 61 21 .744 — 94.8 89.3 5.56
New York Knicks* (3) 57 25 .695 4.0 95.4 92.2 3.31
Orlando Magic* (7) 45 37 .549 16.0 94.1 94.5 -0.07
Washington Bullets* (8) 44 38 .537 17.0 99.4 97.7 1.77
New Jersey Nets (13) 26 56 .317 35.0 97.2 101.8 -3.89
Philadelphia 76ers (14) 22 60 .268 39.0 100.2 106.7 -5.89
Boston Celtics (15) 15 67 .183 46.0 100.6 107.9 -6.62
Central Division
Chicago Bulls* (1) 69 13 .841 — 103.1 92.3 10.70
Atlanta Hawks* (4) 56 26 .683 13.0 94.8 89.4 5.52
Detroit Pistons* (5) 54 28 .659 15.0 94.2 88.9 5.45
Charlotte Hornets* (6) 54 28 .659 15.0 98.9 97.0 2.13
Cleveland Cavaliers (9) 42 40 .512 27.0 87.5 85.6 2.32
Indiana Pacers (10) 39 43 .476 30.0 95.4 94.4 1.49
Milwaukee Bucks (11) 33 49 .402 36.0 95.3 97.2 -1.38
Toronto Raptors (12) 30 52 .366 39.0 95.5 98.6 -2.56

Utah Jazz* (1) 64 18 .780 — 103.1 94.3 7.97
Houston Rockets* (3) 57 25 .695 7.0 100.6 96.1 3.85
Minnesota Timberwolves* (6) 40 42 .488 24.0 96.1 97.6 -1.82
Dallas Mavericks (11) 24 58 .293 40.0 90.6 97.0 -6.47
Denver Nuggets (12) 21 61 .256 43.0 97.8 104.1 -6.40
San Antonio Spurs (13) 20 62 .244 44.0 90.5 98.3 -7.93
Vancouver Grizzlies (14) 14 68 .171 50.0 89.2 99.4 -10.17
Pacific Division
Seattle SuperSonics* (2) 57 25 .695 — 100.9 93.2 6.91
Los Angeles Lakers* (4) 56 26 .683 1.0 100.0 95.7 3.66
Portland Trail Blazers* (5) 49 33 .598 8.0 99.0 94.8 3.56
Phoenix Suns* (7) 40 42 .488 17.0 102.8 102.2 0.21
Los Angeles Clippers* (8) 36 46 .439 21.0 97.2 99.5 -2.66
Sacramento Kings (9) 34 48 .415 23.0 96.4 99.8 -3.64
Golden State Warriors (10) 30 52 .366 27.0 99.6 104.4 -4.90
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
These teams below
Eastern Conference W L W/L% GB PS/G PA/G SRS
Cleveland Cavaliers (1) 25 7 .781 — 110.9 103.6 7.68
Toronto Raptors (2) 22 10 .688 3.0 110.8 102.9 8.20
Boston Celtics (3) 20 14 .588 6.0 106.1 104.3 1.97
Charlotte Hornets (4) 19 15 .559 7.0 104.9 102.6 1.67
Atlanta Hawks (5) 17 16 .515 8.5 101.9 103.7 -1.91
Milwaukee Bucks (6) 16 16 .500 9.0 105.1 102.6 2.42
Washington Wizards (6) 16 16 .500 9.0 105.7 106.1 -0.87
New York Knicks (8) 16 17 .485 9.5 105.5 108.3 -2.53
Indiana Pacers (9) 16 18 .471 10.0 104.1 105.8 -2.66
Chicago Bulls (9) 16 18 .471 10.0 100.5 100.6 -1.01
Orlando Magic (11) 15 19 .441 11.0 98.8 103.0 -4.79
Detroit Pistons (12) 15 20 .429 11.5 98.5 98.7 0.31
Miami Heat (13) 10 24 .294 16.0 98.4 101.7 -2.91
Brooklyn Nets (14) 8 24 .250 17.0 106.0 114.4 -7.90
Philadelphia 76ers (14) 8 24 .250 17.0 99.0 106.5 -7.78

Western Conference W L W/L% GB PS/G PA/G SRS
Golden State Warriors (1) 29 5 .853 — 117.0 104.3 12.08
San Antonio Spurs (2) 27 6 .818 1.5 105.2 97.8 7.17
Houston Rockets (3) 26 9 .743 3.5 114.9 107.1 7.45
Utah Jazz (4) 21 13 .618 8.0 98.9 94.7 3.85
Oklahoma City Thunder (4) 21 13 .618 8.0 106.4 104.6 1.29
Memphis Grizzlies (6) 22 14 .611 8.0 98.6 97.6 1.05
Los Angeles Clippers (6) 22 14 .611 8.0 108.0 103.1 4.52
Sacramento Kings (8) 14 19 .424 14.5 101.8 104.3 -2.66
Denver Nuggets (8) 14 19 .424 14.5 107.8 109.7 -2.13
Portland Trail Blazers (10) 14 21 .400 15.5 107.6 111.5 -2.95
New Orleans Pelicans (10) 14 21 .400 15.5 102.9 105.9 -2.76
Minnesota Timberwolves (12) 11 22 .333 17.5 104.2 105.6 -1.23
Los Angeles Lakers (12) 12 24 .333 18.0 103.9 110.1 -5.53
Phoenix Suns (14) 10 24 .294 19.0 106.2 112.9 -6.23
Dallas Mavericks (14) 10 24 .294 19.0 95.1 100.6 -3.85

No amount of spin or "you're just being nostalgic" bullshyt changes it either.

 

[GetInTheTruck]

No, the quality of games would decrease rapidly if you have the zone in conjunction with handchecking, they had to get rid of handchecking once the zone was implemented because the scores for games started to plummet. Teams started to use zone principles with handchecking and it led to some horrible playoff series like the 03-04 Pistons/Pacers series where the teams put up these numbers -

I liked it better back when you could actually touch guards without a foul being called. More proof that MJ was the goat.

 

[Mantis Toboggan M.D.]

I liked it better back when you could actually touch guards without a foul being called. More proof that MJ was the goat.

You say that like defenders were allowed to touch MJ

 

[Big Boss]

That's simply made up. Barkley himself demanded a trade in 1992 and almost joined up with Magic before ending up joining forces with KJ in Phoenix.

Way back in 1968, Wilt Chamberlain was the MVP but demanded a trade to join forces with Jerry West and Elgin Baylor in LA.

In 1971 Earl Monroe (1st-team all-NBA the year before), refused to play and demanded a trade to a Knicks team that had just won a ring a year earlier.

In 1980, Magic purposely left college when he knew that the Lakers had the #1 pick and he could join forces with the reigning MVP and literally the greatest player in NBA history to that point, Kareem. He openly said that if Chicago had won the pick, he would have stayed another year.

In 1982, Moses Malone won the MVP and then signed with a Sixers team that had just made the Finals.

In 1985, Bill Walton demanded a trade to Boston even though they were already stacked with Bird, Parish, and McHale.

In 1995, Clyde Drexler was only 32 and in the middle of an All-NBA season when he campaigned to join Hakeem, coming off an MVP and NBA championship. Then Barkley and Pippen tried to join forces with him after that.

In 1996 MJ, who already had Scottie Pippen, lobbied hard for the Bulls to pick up Rodman.

In 2000, Grant Hill went to sign with the Magic while they were also pursuing Tracy McGrady and Tim Duncan at the same time in an attempt to build a super-team.


The only difference between then and now is that players have a lot more power now, so they have the ability to make the decision themselves, whereas before they could only demand a trade, refuse to play, or say they wouldn't enter the league.

Facts

 

[FunkDoc1112]

No, the quality of games would decrease rapidly if you have the zone in conjunction with handchecking, they had to get rid of handchecking once the zone was implemented because the scores for games started to plummet. Teams started to use zone principles with handchecking and it led to some horrible playoff series like the 03-04 Pistons/Pacers series where the teams put up these numbers -

That '03-04 season in general was just pure . I mean look at this fukking shyt:

2003-04 NBA Season Summary | Basketball-Reference.com

League average: 93.4 PPG, 43.9% FG, 34.7% 3FG, 102.9 ORtg
Only two teams averaging over 100
Over half the league not even putting up 95 a game

That was the season that made Stern decide enough is enough. In that offseason we saw two significant moments that planted the seeds for today's era: Stern eliminated handchecking, and Steve Nash signed with the Suns. Scoring bumped up 4 points the next season

 

[FTBS]

These teams below
Eastern Conference W L W/L% GB PS/G PA/G SRS
Atlantic Division
Miami Heat* (2) 61 21 .744 — 94.8 89.3 5.56
New York Knicks* (3) 57 25 .695 4.0 95.4 92.2 3.31
Orlando Magic* (7) 45 37 .549 16.0 94.1 94.5 -0.07
Washington Bullets* (8) 44 38 .537 17.0 99.4 97.7 1.77
New Jersey Nets (13) 26 56 .317 35.0 97.2 101.8 -3.89
Philadelphia 76ers (14) 22 60 .268 39.0 100.2 106.7 -5.89
Boston Celtics (15) 15 67 .183 46.0 100.6 107.9 -6.62
Central Division
Chicago Bulls* (1) 69 13 .841 — 103.1 92.3 10.70
Atlanta Hawks* (4) 56 26 .683 13.0 94.8 89.4 5.52
Detroit Pistons* (5) 54 28 .659 15.0 94.2 88.9 5.45
Charlotte Hornets* (6) 54 28 .659 15.0 98.9 97.0 2.13
Cleveland Cavaliers (9) 42 40 .512 27.0 87.5 85.6 2.32
Indiana Pacers (10) 39 43 .476 30.0 95.4 94.4 1.49
Milwaukee Bucks (11) 33 49 .402 36.0 95.3 97.2 -1.38
Toronto Raptors (12) 30 52 .366 39.0 95.5 98.6 -2.56

Utah Jazz* (1) 64 18 .780 — 103.1 94.3 7.97
Houston Rockets* (3) 57 25 .695 7.0 100.6 96.1 3.85
Minnesota Timberwolves* (6) 40 42 .488 24.0 96.1 97.6 -1.82
Dallas Mavericks (11) 24 58 .293 40.0 90.6 97.0 -6.47
Denver Nuggets (12) 21 61 .256 43.0 97.8 104.1 -6.40
San Antonio Spurs (13) 20 62 .244 44.0 90.5 98.3 -7.93
Vancouver Grizzlies (14) 14 68 .171 50.0 89.2 99.4 -10.17
Pacific Division
Seattle SuperSonics* (2) 57 25 .695 — 100.9 93.2 6.91
Los Angeles Lakers* (4) 56 26 .683 1.0 100.0 95.7 3.66
Portland Trail Blazers* (5) 49 33 .598 8.0 99.0 94.8 3.56
Phoenix Suns* (7) 40 42 .488 17.0 102.8 102.2 0.21
Los Angeles Clippers* (8) 36 46 .439 21.0 97.2 99.5 -2.66
Sacramento Kings (9) 34 48 .415 23.0 96.4 99.8 -3.64
Golden State Warriors (10) 30 52 .366 27.0 99.6 104.4 -4.90
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
These teams below
Eastern Conference W L W/L% GB PS/G PA/G SRS
Cleveland Cavaliers (1) 25 7 .781 — 110.9 103.6 7.68
Toronto Raptors (2) 22 10 .688 3.0 110.8 102.9 8.20
Boston Celtics (3) 20 14 .588 6.0 106.1 104.3 1.97
Charlotte Hornets (4) 19 15 .559 7.0 104.9 102.6 1.67
Atlanta Hawks (5) 17 16 .515 8.5 101.9 103.7 -1.91
Milwaukee Bucks (6) 16 16 .500 9.0 105.1 102.6 2.42
Washington Wizards (6) 16 16 .500 9.0 105.7 106.1 -0.87
New York Knicks (8) 16 17 .485 9.5 105.5 108.3 -2.53
Indiana Pacers (9) 16 18 .471 10.0 104.1 105.8 -2.66
Chicago Bulls (9) 16 18 .471 10.0 100.5 100.6 -1.01
Orlando Magic (11) 15 19 .441 11.0 98.8 103.0 -4.79
Detroit Pistons (12) 15 20 .429 11.5 98.5 98.7 0.31
Miami Heat (13) 10 24 .294 16.0 98.4 101.7 -2.91
Brooklyn Nets (14) 8 24 .250 17.0 106.0 114.4 -7.90
Philadelphia 76ers (14) 8 24 .250 17.0 99.0 106.5 -7.78

Western Conference W L W/L% GB PS/G PA/G SRS
Golden State Warriors (1) 29 5 .853 — 117.0 104.3 12.08
San Antonio Spurs (2) 27 6 .818 1.5 105.2 97.8 7.17
Houston Rockets (3) 26 9 .743 3.5 114.9 107.1 7.45
Utah Jazz (4) 21 13 .618 8.0 98.9 94.7 3.85
Oklahoma City Thunder (4) 21 13 .618 8.0 106.4 104.6 1.29
Memphis Grizzlies (6) 22 14 .611 8.0 98.6 97.6 1.05
Los Angeles Clippers (6) 22 14 .611 8.0 108.0 103.1 4.52
Sacramento Kings (8) 14 19 .424 14.5 101.8 104.3 -2.66
Denver Nuggets (8) 14 19 .424 14.5 107.8 109.7 -2.13
Portland Trail Blazers (10) 14 21 .400 15.5 107.6 111.5 -2.95
New Orleans Pelicans (10) 14 21 .400 15.5 102.9 105.9 -2.76
Minnesota Timberwolves (12) 11 22 .333 17.5 104.2 105.6 -1.23
Los Angeles Lakers (12) 12 24 .333 18.0 103.9 110.1 -5.53
Phoenix Suns (14) 10 24 .294 19.0 106.2 112.9 -6.23
Dallas Mavericks (14) 10 24 .294 19.0 95.1 100.6 -3.85

No amount of spin or "you're just being nostalgic" bullshyt changes it either.

All you had to say is that you had no answer for my questions and admit that I thorough refuted your point about the 92-99 seasons.

 

[Gravity]

All you had to say is that you had no answer for my questions and admit that I thorough refuted your point about the 92-99 seasons.

You haven't anything, all you do is deflect. Your questions are silly that's why I didn't answer. I acknowledged that Houston went back to back but I'm not going to agree that that's "running the west" when I'm basically talking about that decade. I'm also not going to pretend as if you saying that because the Bulls won 6 and the Rockets won 2 that means that there were no other contenders, is a valid point either. Those aren't valid points. My point remains, there were more quality teams 20 years ago compared to now. Nothing you've said refutes that.

 

[Draje]

I liked it better back when you could actually touch guards without a foul being called. More proof that MJ was the goat.

nikka, touch Jordan? I think you confused but Jordan was the beneficiary of loads of touch fouls.

 

[FTBS]

You haven't anything, all you do is deflect. Your questions are silly that's why I didn't answer. I acknowledged that Houston went back to back but I'm not going to agree that that's "running the west" when I'm basically talking about that decade. I'm also not going to pretend as if you saying that because the Bulls won 6 and the Rockets won 2 that means that there were no other contenders, is a valid point either. Those aren't valid points. My point remains, there were more quality teams 20 years ago compared to now. Nothing you've said refutes that.

2 teams winning 8 straight chips does. You had more quality teams and contenders but yet fewer teams broke through to actually win?

Speaking of refuting things:

I just pointed out that 5 different teams from the west made the NBA finals from the 92-93 season to the 98-99 season.

In the last 7 seasons 5 different teams from the West have made the Finals and unlike back then 4 of them actually won the whole thing.

How should a man respond to this?

 

[daboywonder2002]

Yeah let's go back to the 90's when the Bulls and Rockets combined for 8/10 titles in the decade. Or the 80s where the champion was a flip of the coin between the Celtics and Lakers. Do these old nikkas even think?

Please STOP it. Yes the bulls were dominant but there was competition. Are u gonna tell e those jazz, suns, spurs, Knicks, pacers, magic, etc teams weren't good. The teams in the 90s were watchable. These teams are horrible record and watching wise. It's too much talent for these teams to look this bad.

 

[Gravity]

2 teams winning 8 straight chips does. You had more quality teams and contenders but yet fewer teams broke through to actually win?

You're a fukking idiot.

Speaking of refuting things:

How should a man respond to this?

2 teams winning 8 straight chips does. You had more quality teams and contenders but yet fewer teams broke through to actually win?

Speaking of refuting things:





How should a man respond to this?

We're not talking about the last 7 years tho fakkit, we're talking right now. Barkley's quote is in reference to the quality of play right now. Like I said, you're an idiot. A grown man should know how to rea and comprehend.

 

[daboywonder2002]

That's like sayin nas, pac, big and Jay z are the only rappers cause they went platinum.