If approved and the Hunts want to stay in Missouri, the state could pay 50% of the renovations or Kansas could pay for 70% for a new stadium. Neither State should be giving a family 25 billion dollars money for a stadium. Make the pay for them it themselves or let them leave.
If approved and the Hunts want to stay in Missouri, the state could pay 50% of the renovations or Kansas could pay for 70% for a new stadium. Neither State should be giving a family 25 billion dollars money for a stadium. Make the pay for them it themselves or let them leave.
The speedway/Legends is like 15 miles from downtown KSKS.
Power & Light is downtown KCMO.
There's a ton of sh*t further out in Kansas but if you want to be closer to....for lack of a better word, civilization....Missouri is easier to access.
I get that but nightlife doesn’t rely on a downtown presence. I may be mistaken but P& L, outside of huge sporting events, is pretty much for out of towners. Also, KCP&L has been losing more $$ than it actually generates. It stays needing public subsidies. I’ll give it props for jumpstarting downtown revitalization but it’s gonna continue to be a money pit. They need the Royals or Chiefs to relocate downtown to save it IMO
If approved and the Hunts want to stay in Missouri, the state could pay 50% of the renovations or Kansas could pay for 70% for a new stadium. Neither State should be giving a family 25 billion dollars money for a stadium. Make the pay for them it themselves or let them leave.
Wholeheartedly agree, but it’s the one thing Gov. Kelly and the republican led legislature actually agree on. Let Jackson County fukk around. The state of KS will step up and give Hunt whatever subsidies he wants
I get that but nightlife doesn’t rely on a downtown presence. I may be mistaken but P& L, outside of huge sporting events, is pretty much for out of towners. Also, KCP&L has been losing more $$ than it actually generates. It stays needing public subsidies. I’ll give it props for jumpstarting downtown revitalization but it’s gonna continue to be a money pit. They need the Royals or Chiefs to relocate downtown to save it IMO
I get that but nightlife doesn’t rely on a downtown presence. I may be mistaken but P& L, outside of huge sporting events, is pretty much for out of towners. Also, KCP&L has been losing more $$ than it actually generates. It stays needing public subsidies. I’ll give it props for jumpstarting downtown revitalization but it’s gonna continue to be a money pit. They need the Royals or Chiefs to relocate downtown to save it IMO
It's a hot spot for tourists but....for example, when I lived in Independence the people out there would go to Power & Light practically every week end.
And I'm gonna assume you never been to P&L late night breh. Half the city is down there.
And despite losing money, the state will never let P&L fail. They just announced a $10 million expansion like 6 months ago.
That's part of my point. It can't pay for itself and be profitable if people only show up an hr or so before 3AM. That's fine but it should be the go to spot Mon-Thur. But that's not something not exclusive to KC cause if you look around any stadiums with a (insert) District, they lose money and are ghost towns when those arenas/stadiums aren't hosting something. They'll constantly be going back to the state. What are they gonna do when the state gets tired. Isn't it a public/private project as well? Seems like the only people that might be making some scratch on this is Cordish (who operates the district iirc).
But how did the Current get their location but the Chiefs and Royals struggling to get anywhere near downtown? Even the voters don't want it down there
That's part of my point. It can't pay for itself and be profitable if people only show up an hr or so before 3AM. That's fine but it should be the go to spot Mon-Thur. But that's not something not exclusive to KC cause if you look around any stadiums with a (insert) District, they lose money and are ghost towns when those arenas/stadiums aren't hosting something. They'll constantly be going back to the state. What are they gonna do when the state gets tired. Isn't it a public/private project as well? Seems like the only people that might be making some scratch on this is Cordish (who operates the district iirc).
But how did the Current get their location but the Chiefs and Royals struggling to get anywhere near downtown? Even the voters don't want it down there
The test used to evaluate tax incentives is full of holes. Not surprisingly, this has led to problems, and not just in Kansas City. Here’s how to know whether tax incentives will be generating new economic activity…or just moving money around.
www.strongtowns.org
Exactly, KCPNL don’t generate new spending or jobs it just shift money around from other parts of the city. People aren’t going out more and can’t afford to go out multiple times. They are just choosing a new spot, so there’s no real net gain. It’s busy there before or after an event but a ghost towns most of the week and especially when nothing’s going on.
They need downtown stadium to attract tourist cause it is dead sun-thurs. Meanwhile, the public’s on the hook through subsidies and tax breaks, and if the revenue doesn’t meet expectations, the city or state ends up covering the gap over and over. The only ones consistently making money are the developers.
That's part of my point. It can't pay for itself and be profitable if people only show up an hr or so before 3AM. That's fine but it should be the go to spot Mon-Thur. But that's not something not exclusive to KC cause if you look around any stadiums with a (insert) District, they lose money and are ghost towns when those arenas/stadiums aren't hosting something. They'll constantly be going back to the state. What are they gonna do when the state gets tired. Isn't it a public/private project as well? Seems like the only people that might be making some scratch on this is Cordish (who operates the district iirc).
But how did the Current get their location but the Chiefs and Royals struggling to get anywhere near downtown? Even the voters don't want it down there
I mentioned late night because you said night life.
I gotta ask how often you cats are downtown. This thread feels like The Twilight Zone.
I'm in P&L fairly often, sometimes multiple times a week, and it's never a "ghost town". Unless it's like 6 am or some sh*t.
The whole reason locals don't want the Chiefs downtown is it's already busy as f*ck. There's something like 30,000 people in P&L....add another 60k+ from a stadium and it's gonna be a nightmare. I don't know how you cats are in that area at any point during midday, dealing with the traffic....and saying it's dead down there.
All that aside, things like the NFL draft and the World Cup most likely have a 0% chance of coming here, if not for P&L.
Lastly, P&L not being profitable seems to be due to corporate f*ckery. Someone on Reddit broke it down. Gonna spoiler tag it because it's a block of text:
Back in 2009 KCBJ reported that Cordish sued the city over its property valuation, and was able to get it reduced from $160m to $12m (the Business Journal article is paywalled -- I was able to find those numbers in an article that linked to it, but that was from a fukky right-wing MO think tank that I won't give the satisfaction of a link to). That lower valuation seems to be derived from so-called "dark store theory" -- another pro-corporate gimme that's cheating cities out of tax revenues -- but even at that it's hilariously low. Power and Light District's appraised value remains at $12m today which on a $/sf basis is roughly equivalent to what you'd pay to buy a shed kit from Home Depot and stick it in your back yard, not anything like what it would cost to build or buy high-end commercial real estate.
Now of course the tax appraisal on P&L doesn't actually lead to tax revenues to the city thanks to the TIF package that Cordish got from the city to build the place (funny, that...) but it apparently does impact what percentage of Cordish's take it has to pay back out to cover the bond payments, which means the absurdly low valuation of the district is a big part of why the city is paying out the nose so that Cordish can hoard the profits for itself.
Just another cautionary tale of why TIF incentives and public/private partnership development proposals deserve a very skeptical eye, and you should always beware of zillionaires bearing gifts.
I mentioned late night because you said night life.
I gotta ask how often you cats are downtown. This thread feels like The Twilight Zone.
I'm in P&L fairly often, sometimes multiple times a week, and it's never a "ghost town". Unless it's like 6 am or some sh*t.
The whole reason locals don't want the Chiefs downtown is it's already busy as f*ck. There's something like 30,000 people in P&L....add another 60k+ from a stadium and it's gonna be a nightmare. I don't know how you cats are in that area at any point during midday, dealing with the traffic....and saying it's dead down there.
All that aside, things like the NFL draft and the World Cup most likely have a 0% chance of coming here, if not for P&L.
Lastly, P&L not being profitable seems to be due to corporate f*ckery. Someone on Reddit broke it down. Gonna spoiler tag it because it's a block of text:
Back in 2009 KCBJ reported that Cordish sued the city over its property valuation, and was able to get it reduced from $160m to $12m (the Business Journal article is paywalled -- I was able to find those numbers in an article that linked to it, but that was from a fukky right-wing MO think tank that I won't give the satisfaction of a link to). That lower valuation seems to be derived from so-called "dark store theory" -- another pro-corporate gimme that's cheating cities out of tax revenues -- but even at that it's hilariously low. Power and Light District's appraised value remains at $12m today which on a $/sf basis is roughly equivalent to what you'd pay to buy a shed kit from Home Depot and stick it in your back yard, not anything like what it would cost to build or buy high-end commercial real estate.
Now of course the tax appraisal on P&L doesn't actually lead to tax revenues to the city thanks to the TIF package that Cordish got from the city to build the place (funny, that...) but it apparently does impact what percentage of Cordish's take it has to pay back out to cover the bond payments, which means the absurdly low valuation of the district is a big part of why the city is paying out the nose so that Cordish can hoard the profits for itself.
Just another cautionary tale of why TIF incentives and public/private partnership development proposals deserve a very skeptical eye, and you should always beware of zillionaires bearing gifts.
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www.strongtowns.org
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