Classics Discussion: Jay-Z

[A.V.]

I think the only thing that pushes TBA into classic discussions is that at the time everyone thought Jay was done, it was a damn good farewell album. Most people weren't left feeling like Jay had to do any more. He displayed lyricism, diversity in production, (great production at that) and influence (Button ups, stock rims dressing more maturely), which in turn, caused the whole game, and fans to follow suit. It's not a personal favorite, but objectively speaking, definitely deserves to be in classic discussions for those reasons, if no others.

Still feel like What More Can I Say should've been the outro. The intro, subject matter, lyricism, hook, and how the song ends is just

 

[RichForever]

Still feel like What More Can I Say should've been the outro. The intro, subject matter, lyricism, hook, and how the song ends is just

I thought I was the only one who thought this. Either that or Encore should have ended the album in my book. I thought My 1st Song was an odd way to end the album.

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

...magna carta?

The Cac album is when a lot of Spin magazine-type critics and hipsters started praising Jay Z for making high art while probably dismissing he previous better work like RD and BP as ghetto jungle music.

 

[the cac mamba]

I thought I was the only one who thought this. Either that or Encore should have ended the album in my book. I thought My 1st Song was an odd way to end the album.

looking back, this is such an obvious choice

 

[No1]

looking back, this is such an obvious choice

I get the my first song ending, he wanted to say goodbye with using some of his older flows and to have his last song be titled "my first song" in an ironic manner. The song also serves to summarize his career in a way and talks about him leaving the game. But ending with the Hova chants would have made sense too. The funny thing about the black album is that he spends like the first 4 songs telling you he's retiring. Like 4 songs on the black album could be an album ender

 

[Inspect Her Deck]

Although I don't believe influence has any bearing on whether something is a classic (believer in quality only side of coin), I have to ask- what is TBA's influence?

(I'm not even sure that RD's influence hasn't been overstated, ppl quote it but what more?- just immaculate quality, timelessness, and is never finished saying what it has to say s/o calvino)

Not so much influence perhaps but also relevance. As Billy Ocean said before, if RD was judged late 90's or early 2000's, it may not have been deemed a classic (though it would be premature anyway). Some albums like Ready to Die were just huge on release and Reasonable Doubt was more of a slow burner, it took time for people to appreciate its greatness.

TBA, in terms of influence, stems from everything related to the big songs on the album such as 99 Problems or Dirt Off Your Shoulder. All it did for pop culture, how many times it has been referenced, also songs like Moment of Clarity. Album is hugely relevant, maybe more so than his others.

 

[jimihendrixheadband]

Is the problem not then that it was a moment and therefore is diminished outside of that moment? Its too temporal, too generation-specific.

Too concerned with the moment, context of said moment is front and centre of TBA, doesn't relegate context of the moment to background noise. (more time capsule than classic imo)

Jays has no classics.
This is low key a kinda troll the community thread.
So, I am out.
If you nikkaz try to change history with that revisionist bullshyt and I peep it.
Chu catching that table on sight,...just know dat.

Art Barr

I want to know how is the blueprint not a classic album. Reasonable doubt wasnt a classic in real time which I explained in my other post. blueprint is undeniable. The other ones are up for debate. I respect your knowledge and insight I just want to know your reasoning. He has three in my opinion

 

[Inspect Her Deck]

Alright fellas, I'm gonna work out the votes now and list the classic albums in the OP of the initial thread I made. I think it's obvious at this point which albums made it. So I'm sorry but I won't take anymore votes from here.

I will also proceed onto the next thread as well.

 

[arel]

I want to know how is the blueprint not a classic album. Reasonable doubt wasnt a classic in real time which I explained in my other post. blueprint is undeniable. The other ones are up for debate. I respect your knowledge and insight I just want to know your reasoning. He has three in my opinion

Have I been quoted by accident or is this also directed at me?

 

[Inspect Her Deck]

Reasonable Doubt: 136/143 - 95%
The Blueprint: 128/142 - 90%
The Black Album: 97/136 - 71%

The TWO classics are certified and listed in bold.

 

[scarlxrd]

Reasonable Doubt and Black Album are definite classics.

 

[arel]

Not so much influence perhaps but also relevance. As Billy Ocean said before, if RD was judged late 90's or early 2000's, it may not have been deemed a classic (though it would be premature anyway). Some albums like Ready to Die were just huge on release and Reasonable Doubt was more of a slow burner, it took time for people to appreciate its greatness.

TBA, in terms of influence, stems from everything related to the big songs on the album such as 99 Problems or Dirt Off Your Shoulder. All it did for pop culture, how many times it has been referenced, also songs like Moment of Clarity. Album is hugely relevant, maybe more so than his others.

I think you are right re: relevance moreso than influence.

(and seems more like tba singles are relevant moreso than the album)

 

[jimihendrixheadband]

Have I been quoted by accident or is this also directed at me?

My fault breh. I wanted to holla at the god art barr

 

[No1]

Reasonable Doubt: 136/143 - 95%
The Blueprint: 128/142 - 90%
The Black Album: 97/136 - 71%

The TWO classics are certified and listed in bold.

70% of people saying something is a classic = classic.

Side note:

@arel how old are you? This is not even a diss, but someone asking about the Black Album's impact cannot be in their 20s. The Black Album had monster singles "Dirt Off Your Shoulder" "99 Problems" (and a classic music video). It had songs that are still performed to this day by Jay and are part of hip hop and pop culture to the point where Tom Brady's entrance music is December 4th. It also had Threat which put 9th Wonder on the map. Then other classic album cuts like Moment of Clarity that was debated forever because of the "if skills sold" line. "I don't wear jerseys I'm 30+." Jerseys ended shortly thereafter and cats started wearing those awful button ups. More importantly, an entire generation of today's current crop of rap's elite believe it is a classic (from Drake to J. Cole to Wale to Kendrick who says it is better than the Blueprint). Like I said, if you don't think TBA is a classic then you have to be in your mid to late 30s. Not only was it great rapping, it basically transitioned Jay Z into the next phase of his career as "rap mogul Jay." TBA is as much a pop culture classic as it is a hip hop classic. (See Rollingstone rating it as the 14 best album of the 2000s).

I could argue TBA did more for Jay's career than the Blueprint did. TBA is what he tries to recreate with BP3 and MCHG but fails at doing.

 

[Art Barr]

I want to know how is the blueprint not a classic album. Reasonable doubt wasnt a classic in real time which I explained in my other post. blueprint is undeniable. The other ones are up for debate. I respect your knowledge and insight I just want to know your reasoning. He has three in my opinion

Dawg, the blueprint is one of the softest change of career direction based records.
That signal a career damaging outing if there was one in rap.
Like if someone said to me, that this record was the record that was gonna dispense nas.
I would have told them the track listing and direction sonically.
Even in nas's current state would have resulted in a draw damaging release for jayz.
Just the fact jay was trying to pull a coup with lyor and blame it on everyone else in pr as to why rocafella was destroyed also comes to mind during this.
As it is obvious the street element and input of biggs to jay's music.
so it would not be soft was missing on the release.
Including an obvious disconnect to dame dash and his wings of rcafella as well.
Blueprint is the hold the trickbag dame but I fukked it up for myself jay album.
shyt was soft when it came out with no replay value and it was reviewed as such back then and also in real reviews said that it was to soft direction wise to stand up to a commercial sellout focused nas.
Let alone a culturally content driven and focused nas and the rest is history.
Not to mention the entire series as a whole if we rated them say as much.
As the blueprint is a failed quality of record series.
that masquerades as a quality record release series.
that is really a failed pop direction based attempt series of records.
That really only have at the most two to three quality records a piece.
That either were not on the original track listing.
Or just was a pisspoor album release submission.
That had to be re-released, with additional b sides after the fact.
To save face on what should have been rated as a low quality pop submission series of records.

If not for show you how, bytches, and the mop revisit album, which is the only replayable record on the first bp.
It is to the point I can't even remember the record because it is only one replayable record on the first blueprint.
If the record was great I would actually get up and look in my phone for what the name of the record is.
Yet, it is jayz and quality of record wise since vol III.
There really is no reason to exert any energy talking or looking up jayz records, after ether.


Art Barr