Coli, who do you think is higher on the all time list, Kawhi Leonard or Scottie Pippen

[Luke Cage]

Your overall point is correct but you're swinging the pendulum too far in the other direction. Pippen was never thought of as the second best player alive in real time. At his peak he was maybe a Top 5 guy. Maybe at the very crescent of his abilities...

But he was absolutely viewed as a Top 10 player thru his prime. He deserves his respect for that and if he was a Top 10 player playing next to Mike, it isn't at all a stretch to believe he could've been a more evolved, more dynamic player if he had a longer rope.

As it is Kawhi is the better player because we saw what a modern version of Pippen looked like when he got to become a #1. But we're talking about Kawhi, a guy who never truly dominated the sport himself, he has one title as a #1, he didn't have some extended decade-long run of dominance (he barely had a 5-year run); there's a bit of revisionism and exaggeration that goes on with Kawhi, too.

The years he finished highest in MVP (2nd in '16, 3rd in '17), think about those years. 2016 and 2017. Nobody in real time thought Kawhi was better than Durant, LeBron, or Curry. He was the new hotness and we watched him evolve from a historically great defensive player to "the best two way player", but like Pippen, he was never the second best player alive.

The year he won his title in Toronto, he had the benefit of a load-managed 60 games on a team that was elite before he got there (who just needed a closer); in a season that lost LeBron to injury, lost Durant to injury and he got to play that Finals vs a team down two of its three best players.

He was breaking down by the end of that series himself, in a loaded managed season. The revisionist exaggeration pieces went nuts after the W but we knew he wasnt better than the three guys we all knew were better players.

So like Pippen there's a similar archetype, albeit with a higher peak---because at peak Kawhi WAS a Top 5 player no doubt---but the gap between the two isnt so insane that you can't make this comparison.

I think pippen is closer to jimmy butler than Kahwi. to be honest. Pippen peak was nowhere near kahwi's peak

 

[Harry B]

I wonder how Pippens stats didn't change with or without Jordan.

Was it just didn't have it in him to be a leader? Although he was probably the best all-round player in the league after Jordan

 

[murksiderock]

I think pippen is closer to jimmy butler than Kahwi. to be honest. Pippen peak was nowhere near kahwi's peak

I mean this is fair. Even in that case though, could you envision an alternate reality where Pippen has his own team and leads them to a Finals or two? I can.

I agree with the, more Jimmy than Kawhi thing though!

 

[AlbertPullhoez]

I wonder how Pippens stats didn't change with or without Jordan.

Was it just didn't have it in him to be a leader? Although he was probably the best all-round player in the league after Jordan

Cause he didn't have it in him. That 2000 Portland choke in Game 7 vs LA proved that

 

[NYC Rebel]

People run that fluke ass 93-94 season into the ground when discussing Scottie

What made it a fluke?

 

[RubioTheCruel]

Kawhi. Two Finals MVPs on two different franchises.

Pippen is an all time great no doubt - but benching himself because Big Chief Triangle dared to call the last play in the ECSF for Kukoc is unforgivable.

 

[RedBull]

"FLUKE" LOL

HIS SECOND OPTION WAS BJ ARMSTRONG AND HE TOOK THE KNICKS TO 7 GAMES IN THE ECF

THE KNICKS LOST IN 7 GAMES VS HOUSTON IN THE FINALS THAT YEAR

THAT WAS PIPPENS ONLY CHANCE TO LEAD A TEAM IN HIS PRIME

U WASNT THERE IN REAL TIME IF U DONT THINK
HE WAS LEGIT

Pippen took the Bulls to the Semis, not the ECF

 

[Sccit]

You are reaching with the mvp votes. He never won the MVP. How does getting 7 first place votes place him over actual winners?
Cool your right though, he average maybe like 1 or 2 points over 20 maybe like 2 or 3 times in his career

STILL LYIN

HE AVERAGED 20+ 4 TIMES

HE FINISHED TOP 5 IN MVP VOTING TWICE (U CLAIMED IT NEVER HAPPENED ONCE)

HE GOT 7 FIRST PLACE MVP VOTES MEANING HE WAS CONSIDERED BY SOME THE BEST IN THE LEAGUE THAT YEAR

JUST ADMIT U DIDNT KNOW THIS STUFF.. ITS ALL GOOD HOMIE

 

[Sccit]

Pippen took the Bulls to the Semis, not the ECF

MY BAD, MEANT TO PUT EC SEMI-FINALS

POINT REMAINS

 

[Luke Cage]

STILL LYIN

HE AVERAGED 20+ 4 TIMES

HE FINISHED TOP 5 IN MVP VOTING TWICE (U CLAIMED IT NEVER HAPPENED ONCE)

HE GOT 7 FIRST PLACE MVP VOTES MEANING HE WAS CONSIDERED BY SOME THE BEST IN THE LEAGUE THAT YEAR

JUST ADMIT U DIDNT KNOW THIS STUFF.. ITS ALL GOOD HOMIE

Fine still don't see how this puts him above any MVP winners.

 

[Gotright]

U WERENT THERE IN REAL TIME

IN 94 SHAQ GOT SWEPT OUT THE FIRST ROUND

FORGET OPINION PIECES, I REMEMBER THESE DISCUSSIONS AS THEY WERE HAPPENING

nikka u is not that dam old to remember sports discussions from 94.

 

[RedBull]

SHAQ WASNT PEAK YET TIL HE JOINED THE LAKERS.. HAKEEM, D-ROB, BARKLEY, PIPPEN WAS DEF CONSIDERED ON THE SAME TIER... PERSONALLY I GOT HAKEEM ABOVE EM ALL, BUT IY WAS DEFINITELY A DISCUSSION

Scottie Pippen was the 2nd-best player of the ‘90s

Michael Jordan was unquestionably the best player of the 90s, but his teammate was right behind him.

www.sbnation.com

https://fadeawayworld.net/michael-jordan-said-he-and-scottie-pippen-were-the-two-best-players-in-the-nba-after-playing-on-the-1992-dream-team

https://www.basketballnetwork.net/old-school/phil-jackson-remembers-the-moment-when-jordan-realized-pippen-is-the-best-all-around-player-in-the-nba

You forgot Mailman Malone who won 2 MVPs and went to the finals twice. I don’t care about his personal life.

Pippen wasn’t a leader of his own team like the ones you mentioned. He was on that “tier “ because of him winning with Mike. In reality he wasn’t in their tier.

 

[Sccit]

nikka u is not that dam old to remember sports discussions from 94.

YES I AM.. I WAS WATCHING BASKETBALL RELIGIOUSLT IN ELEMNTARY

AND WE WOULD TALK BOUT THAT SHIIT AS KIDS ON THE PLAYGROUND

EVEN TEACHERS ETC. WOULD CHIME IN

IF U KNOW U KNOW

 

[Sccit]

You forgot Mailman Malone who won 2 MVPs and went to the finals twice. I don’t care about his personal life.

Pippen wasn’t a leader of his own team like the ones you mentioned. He was on that “tier “ because of him winning with Mike. In reality he wasn’t in their tier.

U MAKIN MY POINT FOR ME

THE ONE YEAR HE DID HAVE HIS OWN TEAM HE FINISHED ABOVE MALONE IN MVP VOTING

 

[RedBull]

People run that fluke ass 93-94 season into the ground when discussing Scottie

U MAKIN MY POINT FOR ME

THE ONE YEAR HE DID HAVE HIS OWN TEAM HE FINISHED ABOVE MALONE IN MVP VOTING

I’m not trying to dispel your point, just pointing out the whole story.