Coli, who do you think is higher on the all time list, Kawhi Leonard or Scottie Pippen

[RedBull]

People run that fluke ass 93-94 season into the ground when discussing Scottie

They do and it does him no good. He had a great year, but they act like he won MVP and the chip. All he did is what other star players did, lose in the playoffs. Only does he get props for losing in the 2nd round. He wasn’t a bum, he was just in Mike’s shadow.

 

[duckbutta]

Pippen sister never beat an elderly person to death in a bathroom. That gives him the edge over Kawhi.

 

[FTBS]

People run that fluke ass 93-94 season into the ground when discussing Scottie

What was flukey? 2019 was the fluke and its the only thing Kawhi has in his favor. If anything, folks act like Scottie was JAG that Mike carried to 6 rings.

Kawhi had the higher ceiling but due to injuries we didn't to see it for long enough so I'm taking Scottie

 

[10bandz]

His standing has gradually increased in the years since his retirement.
Hence the reason they are writing opinion pieces decades later annoucing he was second best. IF they calling him second best at the time, that writer wouldn't have been trying to argue that point in the 2015.
Moreover i think his subsecquent overrating begin as a response to modern players team hopping for more help.
They assume because lebron needed so much help to win it all. MJ must of had help to win his six. So now we are at a place where a player who never even averaged 20ppg in his career and finish top 5 in mvp voting is being lifted up over players putting up 30 that actually won MVPs. Its crazy. Nobody in the 90s thought that.

Yeah, just like Kobe and Pau. Now you see the bullshyt.

 

[10bandz]

They do and it does him no good. He had a great year, but they act like he won MVP and the chip. All he did is what other star players did, lose in the playoffs. Only does he get props for losing in the 2nd round. He wasn’t a bum, he was just in Mike’s shadow.

plus the East was weak as hell that season. You look at the next season and about 3 younger teams in the East made big leaps. Like +10 wins type shyt

 

[Art Barr]

People run that fluke ass 93-94 season into the ground when discussing Scottie

That kawhi eclipsed in one playoff finals win run. By besting the mystique of the phantom foul. With arguably a goat buzzer beater in the plinko finish against joel and the sixers. Then also sealing.
the deal and beating the warriors. Whom when healthy.
pre the bogut target injury to kawhi.
kawhi had the warriors' number. Then in kawhi next change of scenary. Leonard willed the raptors to a ship in one season. Over the new look more powerful warriors team roster.


Art Barr

 

[Art Barr]

Your overall point is correct but you're swinging the pendulum too far in the other direction. Pippen was never thought of as the second best player alive in real time. At his peak he was maybe a Top 5 guy. Maybe at the very crescent of his abilities...

But he was absolutely viewed as a Top 10 player thru his prime. He deserves his respect for that and if he was a Top 10 player playing next to Mike, it isn't at all a stretch to believe he could've been a more evolved, more dynamic player if he had a longer rope.

As it is Kawhi is the better player because we saw what a modern version of Pippen looked like when he got to become a #1. But we're talking about Kawhi, a guy who never truly dominated the sport himself, he has one title as a #1, he didn't have some extended decade-long run of dominance (he barely had a 5-year run); there's a bit of revisionism and exaggeration that goes on with Kawhi, too.

The years he finished highest in MVP (2nd in '16, 3rd in '17), think about those years. 2016 and 2017. Nobody in real time thought Kawhi was better than Durant, LeBron, or Curry. He was the new hotness and we watched him evolve from a historically great defensive player to "the best two way player", but like Pippen, he was never the second best player alive.

The year he won his title in Toronto, he had the benefit of a load-managed 60 games on a team that was elite before he got there (who just needed a closer); in a season that lost LeBron to injury, lost Durant to injury and he got to play that Finals vs a team down two of its three best players.

He was breaking down by the end of that series himself, in a loaded managed season. The revisionist exaggeration pieces went nuts after the W but we knew he wasnt better than the three guys we all knew were better players.

So like Pippen there's a similar archetype, albeit with a higher peak---because at peak Kawhi WAS a Top 5 player no doubt---but the gap between the two isnt so insane that you can't make this comparison.

There is no point in my life. Where pip was the best player for seasons like kawhi.

Never.
I watched every bulls game of pip.
Even select years of him.
being boringly wack and taking false credit in portland. Without ever ramping portland with insider trading to beat phil. To draw conparison.

Now granted pip has a great legact in print.
Yet as far as being this world beater skill player. Dude is the rampup brad sellers 2.o. that was large beneficiary of mike.
being the arguable goat pg in timeline history.


I get people have this love for the sidekick.
I know so. I live that actualized life. Yet in this sidekick life. On no day. Have i ever thought pip was this held back sidekick. Dude was a schlup. Lucky krause had been a cheapskate. That probably never paid pearl on time. Yet i am supposed to believe pip is more than a guy. Who fell for rhe reinsdork meets krause okie doke. Even at the behest of krause and reinsdork saying. We don't even wanna do that to you.


Art Barr

 

[Ethnic Cleansing]

Pip would have a heavy case if he could've pulled off that 3-1 comeback vs. The Lakers and took the chip in '00

 

[Art Barr]

Pip would have a heavy case if he could've pulled off that 3-1 comeback vs. The Lakers and took the chip in '00

Shoulda
Coula
Woulda


Kawhi did all those hypotheticals and stopped three all time greats from three peats. In bron durant and curry.

Art Barr

 

[Trav]

Idk but it's closer than what some will act like. A large part of that is due to injuries for the Board Man but it is what it is.

 

[god shamgod]

Yall aren’t gonna keep gassing Scottie pipoen when you never watched him play

It’s an insult to compare these two ,kahwi has locked up stars and carried teams in the playoffs pippen NEVER did that or dropped 40 in the playoffs multiple times for multiple teams like kahwi

 

[RedBull]

Yall aren’t gonna keep gassing Scottie pipoen when you never watched him play

Exactly. Wasn’t even there to know exactly what was going on and what was being said about him in real time. Revisionists born in the late 90’s ans 2000s

 

[BigTyme Records]

Kawhi don’t even play. Pippen off the strength of being available

 

[Ethnic Cleansing]

Yall aren’t gonna keep gassing Scottie pipoen when you never watched him play

It’s an insult to compare these two ,kahwi has locked up stars and carried teams in the playoffs pippen NEVER did that or dropped 40 in the playoffs multiple times for multiple teams like kahwi

Pippen never blew a 3-1 lead or had multiple games of 40+ hung on him in the same playoff series either

 

[Gotright]

Kawhi don’t even play. Pippen off the strength of being available

Very underrated quality