Could Bootcamp have even been bigger than The Wu ?

Bugzbunny129

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No

Rzas use of pop culture made wu tang bigger than the music

Every album had a theme and alternative branding through already established sub cultures and marketed to different groups… with different sounds.

Bcc didnt have that.
 

WIA20XX

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Every album had a theme and alternative branding through already established sub cultures and marketed to different groups… with different sounds.

You're gonna have to break that down.

Marketed to diff groups?
Different sounds?
 

Bugzbunny129

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You're gonna have to break that down.

Marketed to diff groups?
Different sounds?
36 is a culmination of styles, using kung fu movies to market their music, with an entire brand new defining sound to match. shyt sounded like kung fu fights on wax. The while who is everyone aspect with a solo standout.

Tical is a drug head album with rockish type beats, and had wuropeans remixing the songs into techno/house hits. Meth being so popular had them branching out to pop rap with puff. He became the PROTO rapper, can work with ANYONE. Modern LL. Street to pop.

Return was an old school blaxploitation comedy esque old sound record that could fit with modern rap of the times west coast stuff in a way with catchy tunes. Odb was then marketed to the pop market while having the absolute rawest beats out. He collabed with dozens of rnb singers rock stars southern n west coast rappers.

Cuban linx uses mafia/street culture. This locked down streets snd the nyc white boys. Staple of street rap wnd kept their name good even when they were out the light so rae / ghost stayed working with top street rappers for decades.


Liquid swords is heady shyt for college kids. Marketed on college radio. Got the hipsters. Its dark and lyrical. It uses classic b movie to market off of: japanese style this time. Used the movie theme in full. Comic book cover art. legit MOVIE on wax and sampling its theme. Next level beat shyt. Gza was directing getting into the diy movie vibe of the eras 90s ug movies too. Singles were marketed on those films of the time like fresh.

Ironman was the soul album, marketed using soeed racet cartoons, anime / a combo of all the previous movie brandings, colorful language, clothes/gear… wu wear blew up same time. Marvel comics off branding. Deck was sposed to use spiderman at this time.

Wi tang forever 5% stuff on tour with rage, almost rock group type marketed. by then wu was on skateboards like the misfits and in skate vids, mtv specials and off it went. By then they dominated soundtracks that kept them out there even if the radio in nyc died.


99 it was vudeogames. 10 releases main. 10 ug wu on 20 diff labels. Each in different lane. Killarmy was military… bootcamps gimmivk.

Score / ost sets for big directors. West coast beez + Bobby digital album and film. They put the W on kung fu flicks and re released them all with new names. Belly movie / ost. Black and white movie / ost. Killer beez had hits in europe with la saga and had an entire euro only releases before any act in rap. Eventually that lead to a slew of score / ost side releases and they again dominated the underground market.

Rza basically… worked a deal with EVERY label so wu stayed being promoted.

always had tie ins for every album. On a whole diff level. Hed score. Then have a side ost. Then a solo album. Then a group album. Then a wu comp. Then another solo. And anothrr score. Then a european album / mixtape. Now he does jingles for ad campaigns and promotes all types of products and keeps wus music in commercials like its mtv in 90s.

Everything was carefully crafted to different markets/sub cultures. Even in doing kill bill ghost dog and afro samurai. Which is why i saw gunns wwf thing a mile away and knew some day someone would use that shyt even in 90s.


Bcc could barely hold one consistant sound with 4 diff groups for 4 albums.. It didnt pop like wu. They couldnt compete with wu sonically let alone business wise and rzas vision of sampling
 
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Duck Down was an indie w/ a distro deal through Priority. Priority wouldn't really have any creative control.

And that's the main thing I haven't seen mentioned in the "bigger than" discussion: Wu splitting off and having completely different labels w/ their promotion teams, ad budgets, A&Rs, etc... all pushing the Clan & solos at the same time. Loud, Def Jam, Elektra, Geffen & Sony all having their full efforts throwing up the W to print/radio/TV/etc...

Boot Camp did their thing but they couldn't construct the same machine as that, especially as they were on the same timeline as it was being invented.


Yeah, I know they were distribution, I meant more along the lines of how Dru Ha and Rock have spoken about how Priority's indifference and decision making influenced their career arcs. They dropped everyone from Priority except Rock, which was the beginning of the little rift Rock and Duck Down had in the early 2000s, and also why all his solo work was so heavy on a West Coast sound. Most of that was recorded while he was still signed to Priority.
 
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Dope. Never saw this. Reminds of an interview Wu did on Urban X-Pressions (classic Philly based hip-hop and R&B show in the 90s). It was always stuck with me when they asked Cappadonna what he listens to and who he's feeling and his face just lit up and he screamed "B Double O!!!!" and said Boot Camp was his favorite hip-hop act outside of the Wu.

Meth always showed them love. The name he calls Rockness is "twin", which speaks of how much respect he has for him. And he personally credits Sean Price for sparking his rejuvenation of the past 10 years. Rock said he performed at the Sean Price memorial show last year and did an entire set free of charge and never asked for anything in return. Did it 100% off his love for Price and BCC.
 

TheDarceKnight

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No, respectfully. Wu-Tang just had too much eccentric and wild shyt going for it. Crazy Kung-Fu samples and other weird movie samples from John Woo, etc. Tons of different members that all sounded different. Crazy style of beats that sounded different from each other that no one had ever heard before. Insane slang and crazy words and terminology. Each album sounded different. Weird branding and a logo that stood out. Different members getting different solo deals with different record labels. Meth and ODB were all legit stars, and Ghost and Rae just bled charisma.

And they just had a special X-Factor that you almost never see.

Just the perfect package to blow up worldwide and cross over with everyone.
 

CrossBones

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Boot Camp had humor, also some of the hardest beats, smoothest beats, different flows, diverse groups, and was the closest thing next to Wu. Hits and classics around the same era. Their military theme was more mainstream ready than the Kung Fu shyt, especially after Fu Shnickens did the same thing a year before and it was comical. They were connected to Mobb Deep, Biggie, 2pac, Funkmaster Flex and should have had more presence on their shyt than what they had. Their label was trash as fukk and was holding them back when Black Moon and Smif n Wessun were really starting to heat up. Listen to their loosies that didn't make each of their second albums. It's almost like how Nas scrapped his Illmatic sequel and we didn't get more songs like Deja Vu. What could have been.

Sonically BCC doesn't match Rza's most creative peaks, but overall they should have been in the same stratosphere of the Wu instead of falling off with those wack beats on their second go round. Also version 2 of the Wu Tang (when they lived at the Wu Mansion with a million other MCs and producers) stepped it up lyrically on their next phase, while BCC didn't match them. Them torpedoing Beatminerz was some goofy shyt and that's on Rock and Ruck. The team is stronger when they work all together. They called them the Sweetminerz in the Source and acted like they don't need em. Boot Camp was on the verge of holding it down on a bigger level and fukked it up. I can't see them being the international sensation the Wu became, but they had so much more potential that was wasted. Also the beef with Bad Boy got them blacklisted as Diddy controlled NY radio, and that Big diss from OGC hurt them. Rock admitted to the blacklisting on his show a while ago. And also Starang getting hit up and them doing nothing was looking crazy so heads looked at them differently.

Also, OGC and Representativez were borderline amateur aside from Starang. Him and the beats held them up a lot. Top Dogg and Louisville needed more time to develop and the others aside from Illanoize were generic af.
 
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Duck Down Records was the East Coast version of Suave House…

They had enough for everyone and was doing their own thing
Priority didn’t really push em enough considering that they was eating good off of Master P.


BCC could have joined forces with Wu at least

Unfortunately, the first actual posse cuts between Wu and Boot Camp didn't happen until after both ODB and Sean Price had passed ("Clans and Clicks" & "Camp Wu"), but they have a bunch of tracks together featuring 1 or two members from each crew over the years. I was gonna list all of them but there's a good 25-30 songs they've collaborated on (if not more). Tek also did a group album a few years ago with Timbo King from Royal Fam.
 

prophecypro

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The good question actually

I guess I'll say no cause Wu had the logo and the cross culture reference with the kung fu flicks and guys like Meth an ODB had that crossover superstar factor

But the whole Boot Camp had deep hits from 92-98 especially that I think should be considered East Coast Old School staples. Black Moon and Smiff in Whessun kinda get their props but it feels like people forgot their importance
 

Mac Ten

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The good question actually

I guess I'll say no cause Wu had the logo and the cross culture reference with the kung fu flicks and guys like Meth an ODB had that crossover superstar factor

But the whole Boot Camp had deep hits from 92-98 especially that I think should be considered East Coast Old School staples. Black Moon and Smiff in Whessun kinda get their props but it feels like people forgot their importance

Black Moon made it cool to wear Jansport and Timbs…


Them Adam 22 ass fans are fickle anyways.


To me, BCC was like the East Coast version of the DF. They had a movement of their own using all the resources they have.


Dru Ha and them had a sponsorship with Ecko plus I liked their Comic book covers for their 2005 albums.
 
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