Could Jay-z ever do a record like Poison/What Goes Around?

[Budda]

I stopped fukking with nas like that on I AM, not because it was outright wack or anything it was just meh, the perception of Nas at that time wasn't that great and this was BEFORE nastradamus. If you try comparing him to Jay at that time it wouldn't really have been much of a debate.

You mean around the times people used to argue who was the best 'biggie jay or Nas?

 

[OG Talk]

So are albums on classics if they were deemed so at the time? Maybe you don't like IWW enough to rate it that high though....

But your whole argument of RD not being a classic because nobody was calling it that when it came out is irrelevant to the actual definition of what a classic is

classic
"judged over a period of time to be of the highest quality and outstanding of its kind."

A classic isn't - "something that people thought was a classic when it first came out." If that were the case all sorts of bullshyt albums would be classics from people overrating them from the novelty of first hearing them.

And you saying "find someone calling RD a classic before 2001" isn't easy to do with any album. I can't find anyone calling The Infamous a classic before the age of the internet either.

I think the term classic has become overused and people can't seperate it from "really good" "great" or "sh1t I really like"

I'm the wrong person to try to pass boderline albums as classic to because I feel there have only been about 15 classic albums in the entire history of hip hop...

To me a classic is genre defining, revolutionary body of work that has to be innovative and creative to a level that we haven't experienced before..Nobody I know felt that way when RD came out...It was just another dope album..

OB4CL owns the lane for "classic" in the genre of New York drug dealer/mafioso rap...Thats why as good as Doe or Die, IWW or RD were they still are viewed as carbon copy or OB4CL Lite....


To me The Infamous is classic because it revolutionized lyrical Eastcoast gangster rap on a level we hadn't heard before...

IWW and RD didn't do any of this.. It was just two collections of dope songs mixed in with R&B Hook fueled filler...

I've never been able to listen to either album without skipping tracks...

 

[mobbinfms]

I think the term classic has become overused and people can't seperate it from "really good" "great" or "sh1t I really like"

I'm the wrong person to try to pass boderline albums as classic to because I feel there have only been about 15 classic albums in the entire history of hip hop...

To me a classic is genre defining, revolutionary body of work that has to be innovative and creative to a level that we haven't experienced before..Nobody I know felt that way when RD came out...It was just another dope album..

OB4CL owns the lane for "classic" in the genre of New York drug dealer/mafioso rap...Thats why as good as Doe or Die, IWW or RD were they still are viewed as carbon copy or OB4CL Lite....


To me The Infamous is classic because it revolutionized lyrical Eastcoast gangster rap on a level we hadn't heard before...

IWW and RD didn't do any of this.. It was just two collections of dope songs mixed in with R&B Hook fueled filler...

I've never been able to listen to either album without skipping tracks...

The bolded is all you needed to say in response to my initial question. Under that criteria - I agree that RD isn't classic. And that is a reasonable way to approach the whole classic issue.

So besides Infamous and OBFCL (my #1 and #3 albums of all time) what are the other 13 classics?

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

'm the wrong person to try to pass boderline albums as classic to because I feel there have only been about 15 classic albums in the entire history of hip hop...

To me a classic is genre defining, revolutionary body of work that has to be innovative and creative to a level that we haven't experienced before..

I consider RD a classic and I think there are more than 15 classic albums...more like 25. But the gist of this is how I feel. This is what I was basically saying to @BarNone when hewas trying to tell me the fukking Black Album is an indisputable classic.

 

[OG Talk]

The bolded is all you needed to say in response to my initial question. Under that criteria - I agree that RD isn't classic. And that is a reasonable way to approach the whole classic issue.

So besides Infamous and OBFCL (my #1 and #3 albums of all time) what are the other 13 classics?

Aww man you put me on the spot...


Just to name a few

N.W.A.-Straight Outta Compton

Public Enemy - It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back

A Tribe Called Quest - The Low End Theory


Boogie Down Productions - Criminal Minded

Dr. Dre - The Chronic

2Pac - Me Against the World

Run-D.M.C. - Raising Hell

Outkast-Aquemini

Kanye West-The College Dropout

Biggie-Ready To Die


It's more about albums that shook up and changed the landscape, not just did a good job of piggy backing off of the ones that did...To me those are just good or great albums...

 

[Julius Skrrvin]

I consider RD a classic and I think there are more than 15 classic albums...more like 25. But the gist of this is how I feel. This is what I was basically saying to @BarNone when hewas trying to tell me the fukking Black Album is an indisputable classic.

TBA is a classic to people our age (and hov stanleys ). like I said a lot of us think it's Jay's greatest album. When it came out it was huge, especially the street singles like 99 problems, Dirt off your shoulder, PSA.... Plus the remixes and all the shyt that's come off it since is huge. I think it's the most remixed hip hop album ever along with 36 chambers. I honestly think it sums up Jay as an artist. It has the swag raps, the hustler stories, the rare touches of personal tracks... And it showcases his (former) greatest talent; which is his ability to make it work over any kind of production..

When the general public thinks of Jay-Z, IMO that's the album they think of.

I don't distinguish between personal and 'objective' classics, because I can't empirically determine how influential something is.

 

[OG Talk]

I consider RD a classic and I think there are more than 15 classic albums...more like 25. But the gist of this is how I feel. This is what I was basically saying to @BarNone when hewas trying to tell me the fukking Black Album is an indisputable classic.

The only reason you can even enjoy The Black Album in 2014 is if you suspend all sense of reality or go under some type of hypnosis that makes forget the past 10 years ever occured..If you listen to it in the original context that it was meant to be presented as it's one of the most unintentionally hilarious pieces of art you'll ever process imo...

 

[Prae]

I think the term classic has become overused and people can't seperate it from "really good" "great" or "sh1t I really like"

I'm the wrong person to try to pass boderline albums as classic to because I feel there have only been about 15 classic albums in the entire history of hip hop...

To me a classic is genre defining, revolutionary body of work that has to be innovative and creative to a level that we haven't experienced before..Nobody I know felt that way when RD came out...It was just another dope album..

OB4CL owns the lane for "classic" in the genre of New York drug dealer/mafioso rap...Thats why as good as Doe or Die, IWW or RD were they still are viewed as carbon copy or OB4CL Lite....


To me The Infamous is classic because it revolutionized lyrical Eastcoast gangster rap on a level we hadn't heard before...

IWW and RD didn't do any of this.. It was just two collections of dope songs mixed in with R&B Hook fueled filler...

I've never been able to listen to either album without skipping tracks...

Would MMLP be considered a classic under that description?

 

[OG Talk]

Would MMLP be considered a classic under that description?

Yes its in the discussion..I think his first album Slim Shady LP would be a better candidate though..

 

[No1]

I consider RD a classic and I think there are more than 15 classic albums...more like 25. But the gist of this is how I feel. This is what I was basically saying to @BarNone when hewas trying to tell me the fukking Black Album is an indisputable classic.

You weren't telling me, @Broletariat or anyone else in that thread anything. Everyone understood what you were saying, but none of us agreed (Jay haters alike) with you conflating genre-defining\changing classic with how the term "classic" has been and is presently used in all walks of society. You adding a smiley to your post doesn't make what everyone said in that thread any more laughable. Just like how I didn't think your stance was laughable (just wrong). Have a good one breh

 

[No1]

TBA is a classic to people our age (and hov stanleys ). like I said a lot of us think it's Jay's greatest album. When it came out it was huge, especially the street singles like 99 problems, Dirt off your shoulder, PSA.... Plus the remixes and all the shyt that's come off it since is huge. I think it's the most remixed hip hop album ever along with 36 chambers. I honestly think it sums up Jay as an artist. It has the swag raps, the hustler stories, the rare touches of personal tracks... And it showcases his (former) greatest talent; which is his ability to make it work over any kind of production..

When the general public thinks of Jay-Z, IMO that's the album they think of.

I don't distinguish between personal and 'objective' classics, because I can't empirically determine how influential something is.

Classic's literal definition is "of the first or highest quality." People may overuse the term "classic" for every hot album, but to pretend that it is only reserved for albums that changed the course of trends or styles is just being ignorant of history. Every genre of art has artists with works that are less transformative than even THEIR OWN prior works but they are regarded as classic because they were superior pieces of work. When people say this is a "classic" or quintessential PIcasso painting they are not just referring to his first usage of cubism. Your instincts are right. When Rolling Stone ranks the 500 greatest albums of all time and calls them classic, every Beatles album on there was not as genre-defining or shifting as the other. Changing the entire course of music is not a necessary component of a classic album as defined by critics and the masses alike, it just happens to do so frequently. It never has been, and it never will be. Your instincts were right.

 

[Julius Skrrvin]

The only reason you can even enjoy The Black Album in 2014 is if you suspend all sense of reality or go under some type of hypnosis that makes forget the past 10 years ever occured..If you listen to it in the original context that it was meant to be presented as it's one of the most unintentionally hilarious pieces of art you'll ever process imo...

that's interesting, because when I listen to TBA I hear razor tight flows from one of the best emcees ever over lush production that holds up from a variety of some of the best producers to ever do it. I hear songs that run the gamut, from radio-friendly celebrations of life like Change Clothes to personal regret like in Lucifer. I hear retrospection and introspection, that manages to stray away from being maudlin and corny like my 1st Song, December 4th, Moment of Clarity. I hear some of the best street singles to ever drop in Public Service Announcement, Dirt Off Your Shoulder, and 99 Problems. But I guess I should listen to music less and arbitrarily say it's trash because Jay decided to come out of retirement

 

[OG Talk]

that's interesting, because when I listen to TBA I hear razor tight flows from one of the best emcees ever over lush production that holds up from a variety of some of the best producers to ever do it. I hear songs that run the gamut, from radio-friendly celebrations of life like Change Clothes to personal regret like in Lucifer. I hear retrospection and introspection, that manages to stray away from being maudlin and corny like my 1st Song, December 4th, Moment of Clarity. I hear some of the best street singles to ever drop in Public Service Announcement, Dirt Off Your Shoulder, and 99 Problems. But I guess I should listen to music less and arbitrarily say it's trash because Jay decided to come out of retirement

I didn't say it was trash.. I said it made me laugh...And I can't get pass the goofiness and unintentional irony of it all enough to enjoy it as much as you do...

It's like watching the Weather Channel on DVR from last week listening to them hype up a big winter storm that never came...I've got better things to do..But if you came of age in the oughts I realize the album holds some special sentimal value to you, so I'm not gonna try to make you come to my side on this opinion...

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

You weren't telling me, @Broletariat or anyone else in that thread anything. Everyone understood what you were saying, but none of us agreed (Jay haters alike) with you conflating genre-defining\changing classic with how the term "classic" has been and is presently used in all walks of society. You adding a smiley to your post doesn't make what everyone said in that thread any more laughable. Just liike how I didn't think your stance was laughable (just wrong). Good a have one breh

I didn't use "genre changing" in my definition of classic. But regardless of one's criteria, The Black Album isn't a classic to me because it's not near "of the highest order." It's just a very good album, like 100 more. Maybe one day you'll wisen up and realize that music experience and how we rank and rate album is a completely subjective exercise and understand the silliness of telling someone "you're wrong" when they state how they qualify the term classic.

You can think TBA is a classic and that's fine. Where you went off the rails was when you went into this hyperbole about how it's an indisputable consensus classic and people who say otherwise are wrong. Most hip-hop fans do not consider it a classic. I am exponentially more knowledgeable and more credible on hip-hop than you, for example, and I say it doesn't even register as a blip in the classic discussion, so therefore it's not an indisputable classic.

 

[Digga38]

Two different lanes, one's a drug dealer and one's a nikka trying to make it to Africa.

It'll just be weird for Jay Z to make songs like that, it's not in his character.

jay hasnt sold a drug in like 20 years