Could Jay-z ever do a record like Poison/What Goes Around?

[Prae]

RD is a classic. Amazing album. But it is not in the same strata as Illmatic. Illmatic is a top ten hip hop album. RD is not.
That's not my opinion. That is simply how the two albums are perceived by the hip hop community. You may not agree, but to question that is to demonstrate a lack of knowledge and awareness of hip hop.
I will say this. Jay is rhyming on the same level as Illmatic Nas on RD. The production is what holds it back.

I'm not even a big Jay fan but I have RD as my #2 album behind Illmatic. Dope album - great lyricism, content, flow, production, style, cohesiveness, etc. Only bad track is Ain't No nikka.

 

[mobbinfms]

I'm not even a big Jay fan but I have RD as my #2 album behind Illmatic. Dope album - great lyricism, content, flow, production, style, cohesiveness, etc.

I hear you. It's not about what we as individuals think though. It's about the perception of the two albums by the community. Illmatic has always been held in a higher regard.

 

[SunZoo]

That's actually pretty clever

And how did Hov give him life when he was still selling platinum records a mere 2 years before Stillmatic? Both I Am and Nastradamus went platinum in 1 month each, and were both released the same year. And I Am is a dope record.

This came out 2 years before Stillmatic so I really don't see where you're coming from. I wasn't listening to rap then or aware of how Nas was being perceived, but I kind of doubt dudes were forgetting he could spit.

I stopped fukking with nas like that on I AM, not because it was outright wack or anything it was just meh, the perception of Nas at that time wasn't that great and this was BEFORE nastradamus. If you try comparing him to Jay at that time it wouldn't really have been much of a debate.

 

[Big Mel]

As good as Illmatic though?

No. It's a hybrid of illmatic & Ready To Die. Totally different monster. Illmatic is in a category all it's own. RD is a classic though. And the people who say that's revisionist are ironically revising history themselves.


did i use ironically properly there? i have such trouble with that word.

 

[Prae]

I stopped fukking with nas like that on I AM, not because it was outright wack or anything it was just meh, the perception of Nas at that time wasn't that great and this was BEFORE nastradamus. If you try comparing him to Jay at that time it wouldn't really have been much of a debate.

He would've looked a lot better with the original double disc and without the leaks

This shyt would've been

Disk 1
1. Fetus (Belly Button Window)
2. NY State Of Mind Pt. II
3. Life Is What You Make It
4. Small World
5. Hardest Thing To Do Is Stay Alive
6. Poppa Was a Playa
7. Nas Is Like
8. Blaze A 50
9. Favor For A Favor
10. We Will Survive
11. Some Of Us Have Angels
12. Project Windows
13. Day Dreaming, Stay Scheming
14. Sometimes I Wonder
15. Undying Love

Disk 2
1. After Life (Intro)
2. Amongst Kings
3. Life We Chose
4. Drunk By Myself
5. Pray
6. God Love Us
7. Ghetto Prisoners
8. Last Words
9. Family
10. Come Get Me
11. Find Your Wealth
12. U Gotta Love It
13. Wanna Play Rough
14. The Rise And Fall
15. My Worst Enemy

 

[mobbinfms]

No. It's a hybrid of illmatic & Ready To Die. Totally different monster. Illmatic is in a category all it's own. RD is a classic though. And the people who say that's revisionist are ironically revising history themselves.


did i use ironically properly there? i have such trouble with that word.

Yep. Sounds like we're saying the same thing.

 

[OG Talk]

RD is a classic..

Naw...

 

[mobbinfms]

Naw...

How you figure?

 

[OG Talk]

How you figure?

Had classic songs but was never mentioned as a classic album at anytime before 2001 and by anyone but Jay-Z...

I've been asking people for years to show me examples of someone calling this album a classic before Jay said it was on Blueprint...Still havent seen any...

Whether it's him and Kanye pioneering "looping the soul" (years after Marley Marl and RZA did it) or making Yankee hats popular.. Jay is master of creating his own narrative and rewriting history..

But I have a dad so I'm not falling for it...

 

[Prae]

Had classic songs but was never mentioned as a classic album at anytime before 2001 and by anyone but Jay-Z...

I've been asking people for years to show me examples of someone calling this album a classic before Jay said it was on Blueprint...Still havent seen any...

Whether it's him and Kanye pioneering "looping the soul" (years after Marley Marl and RZA did it) or making Yankee hats popular.. Jay is master of creating his own narrative and rewriting history..

But I have a dad so I'm not falling for it...

Yes everyone who thinks Reasonable Doubt is a classic only thinks that because Jay said it. It has absolutely nothing to do with the album/music itself
He also calls Vol 2 a classic and I don't see a lot of people thinking that.

IDK if you're the same person who is always makes this dumb comment, but I've addressed it before. shyt sometimes gets overlooked when it first comes out, and it takes time to let it sink in and appreciate it. There was tons of amazing music coming out at that time, and a lot of it was of similar style too. I've said this before but I'll say it again - The Shawshank Redemption flopped at the box office and wasn't getting any attention when it came out - but years later it has become one of the most highly regarded movies out there.


IWW wasn't thought of as a classic when it came out either from what I can tell.
http://www.xxlmag.com/news/2012/01/nas-remembers-the-impact-of-it-was-written-15-years-later/

What a difference 15 years make. Upon its release on July 1, 1996, Nas’s It Was Written was met with mixed reviews. The complaint was that the Nasty MC—who now fancied his Escobar nickname—had traded his gritty sound in favor of the Trackmaster’s more radio-friendly backdrops. The approach worked, commercially at least. Featuring the Lauryn Hill-assisted “If I Ruled the World” and “Street Dreams,” the record sold 2, 557, 455 and stands as Nas’s best-selling album to date. Now, a decade and a half later, It Was Written is considered one of Nas’s best works. Rolling Stone Magazine, who initially rated the LP two stars, re-graded it with four stars in 2004.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It_Was_Written#Reception

It Was Written received generally positive reviews from critics. The Source called it an "audio anthology of ghetto stories told by one of hip-hop's most prolific writers." Vibe magazine's Krisex criticized the album's "consistently aggressive attempts at pop music", but also wrote that Nas "shines through". Despite calling the album "adequate" and commending Nas for his lyricism and flow, Krisex concluded that It was Written "isn't nearly as satisfying as his first one." NME wrote that "Nas' neat, considered lyrics treat the violence that surrounds him with a mixture of remorse, resignation and ebullience." Christopher John Farley of Time stated "The lyrics in It Was Written could be sharper, but the music, energetic and engaging on many tracks, helps drive his message home." Q magazine called Nas's performance "angry, lean and full of drive." Both the Chicago Tribune and Chicago Sun-Times were favorable of the album's sound and gave the album 3½ out of 4 stars. Los Angeles Times writer Cheo Coker called the album "poetic", writing that it "demonstrates a continuing lyrical maturity that makes his already potent beats and rhymes all the more compelling". Spin magazine preferred the "reach" of It Was Written to Nas's "more suavely rapped debut", praised the production, and described the songs' choruses as "grainy, pop-savvy".

The album's release followed the commercial success of other mafioso-themed rap albums with similar subject matter, including Raekwon's Only Built 4 Cuban Linx… (1995), Jay-Z's Reasonable Doubt (1996) and AZ's Doe or Die (1995). Music writers criticized its mainstream, R&B and pop-leaning sound, as well as the enlistment of a top production unit and popular guest artists. The album's lyrics and themes were also poorly received and heavily dismissed as an attempt by Nas to follow the popularity of gangsta and mafioso rap. Rolling Stone's Mark Coleman wrote negatively of Nas's themes and called it "the latest blatant example of trashy tough-guy talk", writing "Certainly he strikes a note of creepy realism in his stories of heavyweight dealing and literally cutthroat competition. 'The Set Up', 'Shootouts' and 'Affirmative Action' [...] are chilling in their how-many-grams-to-a-kilo detail and utter amorality. On 'Watch Dem nikkas', Nas cites as inspirations both the boxing coach Cus D'Amato and the murderous drug lord Pablo Escobar. What is this guy thinking?". Jon Pareles of The New York Times commented that he "continually shifts perspective" and called it "late-stage gangsta rap, starting to buckle under its own contradictions." The Village Voice's Robert Christgau gave the album a "neither" ((neither)) rating, indicating "may impress once or twice with consistent craft or an arresting track or two. Then it won't."

The album was ranked number 41 in NME's critics' poll of 1996, and Jim Farber of the New York Daily News named it the sixth best album of 1996. German-based magazine Spex ranked it number four on its "End of Year" list, while the UK-based magazine The Face named it the twenty-fourth best album of 1996. "If I Ruled the World (Imagine That)" was ranked number 29 on NME's Singles of the Year list, and number 20 on The Village Voice's Pazz & Jop critics' poll. It was nominated for a Grammy Award for Best Rap Solo Performance in 1997.

It also got 4 mics in the source, same as RD.

The Infamous didn't appear to receive flawless/classic ratings when it first came out either.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Infamous

Upon its release, The Infamous received mostly positive reviews. Entertainment Weekly's Tiarra Mukherjee gave it a B+ rating, stating "Over mostly self-produced, bare-bones beats, the pair's hard-edged rhymes paint a chilling picture of life on their mean streets, New York City's Queensbridge Housing Projects. Underground rap-heads, and those who can break away from Jeep beats will rejoice." In its initial review, The Source gave The Infamous four and a half out of five "mics", with Dimitry Leger stating "Mobb Deep earn credibility, winning the crucial battle between style and substance, who's real and who's a move-faker. Havoc and Prodigy simply report what they know." Elliott Wilson from Vibe wrote a favorable review of the album as well, and stated "Each song is a different chapter in the hard street life Havoc and Prodigy have experienced in their Queensbridge neighborhood ... While describing their lives with brutal realism and raw imagery, Havoc's love for his hometown hits you in the head like a Mike Tyson comeback punch." NME gave the album an eight out of 10 rating, and described it as "Shuttering nitro beats and scratchy jazz samples (that) cut back to reverberating piano chords and odd squealing horn breaks. As rappers they bring the clipped, rolling style of Rakim or EPMD, adding a chill menace to neighborhood boasts like 'Right Back at You' and 'Eye For a Eye.'" Rolling Stone magazine originally rated the album three and a half out of five stars, and called it "a darkly nihilistic masterpiece".

Compare those ratings to Reasonable Doubt
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reasonable_Doubt_(album)#Reception

The album was well received by music critics upon its release. Entertainment Weekly gave it a B+ rating, while Charlie Braxton of The Source gave it four out of five mics. The magazine later revised it to its "classic" five mic rating, and in 1998, it was listed one of The Source's 100 Best Rap Albums.

It Was Written
The Source: 4/5
Entertainment Weekly: A-
Rolling Stone: 2/5

The Infamous
The Source: 4.5/5
Entertainment Weekly: B+
Rolling Stone: 3.5/5

Reasonable Doubt
The Source: 4/5
Entertainment Weekly: B+

 

[blackslash]

I thought the Friend or Foes were brilliant

Dnt forget Coming of Age series

 

[OG Talk]

Yes everyone who thinks Reasonable Doubt is a classic only thinks that because Jay said it. It has absolutely nothing to do with the album/music itself
He also calls Vol 2 a classic and I don't see a lot of people thinking that.

IDK if you're the same person who is always makes this dumb comment, but I've addressed it before. shyt sometimes gets overlooked when it first comes out, and it takes time to let it sink in and appreciate it. There was tons of amazing music coming out at that time, and a lot of it was of similar style too. I've said this before but I'll say it again - The Shawshank Redemption flopped at the box office and wasn't getting any attention when it came out - but years later it has become one of the most highly regarded movies out there.


IWW wasn't thought of as a classic when it came out either from what I can tell.
http://www.xxlmag.com/news/2012/01/nas-remembers-the-impact-of-it-was-written-15-years-later/


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It_Was_Written#Reception

It also got 4 mics in the source, same as RD.

The Infamous didn't appear to receive flawless/classic ratings when it first came out either.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Infamous


Compare those ratings to Reasonable Doubt
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reasonable_Doubt_(album)#Reception


It Was Written
The Source: 4/5
Entertainment Weekly: A-
Rolling Stone: 2/5

The Infamous
The Source: 4.5/5
Entertainment Weekly: B+
Rolling Stone: 3.5/5

Reasonable Doubt
The Source: 4/5
Entertainment Weekly: B+

IWW isn't a classic either...

 

[havoc]

Had classic songs but was never mentioned as a classic album at anytime before 2001 and by anyone but Jay-Z...

I've been asking people for years to show me examples of someone calling this album a classic before Jay said it was on Blueprint...Still havent seen any...

Whether it's him and Kanye pioneering "looping the soul" (years after Marley Marl and RZA did it) or making Yankee hats popular.. Jay is master of creating his own narrative and rewriting history..

But I have a dad so I'm not falling for it...

@ the bolded words...

However, how you really feel about Illmatic being a classic ? That shyt sold aluminum and wasn't a popular album beyond the borders of NEW YORK.

 

[Prae]

IWW isn't a classic either...

So are albums on classics if they were deemed so at the time? Maybe you don't like IWW enough to rate it that high though....

But your whole argument of RD not being a classic because nobody was calling it that when it came out is irrelevant to the actual definition of what a classic is

classic
"judged over a period of time to be of the highest quality and outstanding of its kind."

A classic isn't - "something that people thought was a classic when it first came out." If that were the case all sorts of bullshyt albums would be classics from people overrating them from the novelty of first hearing them.

And you saying "find someone calling RD a classic before 2001" isn't easy to do with any album. I can't find anyone calling The Infamous a classic before the age of the internet either.

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

I'm not even a big Jay fan but I have RD as my #2 album behind Illmatic. Dope album - great lyricism, content, flow, production, style, cohesiveness, etc. Only bad track is Ain't No nikka.

Yeah, I can't a single negative word about RD (I like Ain't No nikka). It's a near flawless classic album. It always was. For some reason it took years for most people to realize this. Illmatic was the same way for a lot of people (it had the critical acclaim and core hip-hop heads stamp of approval, but not the wide-ranging mainstream praise). I didn't sleep on either album.