You guys do not get hip hop or what?
Well said. It's why I don't get into a bunch of back and forths on who's better.I was a Lupe stan once upon a time and he doesn't have a Sing About Me/Dying of Thirst, Kiesha's Song. He doesn't have an album musically on par with To Pimp a Butterfly. I'd actually put Food & Liquor and The Cool over Damn and possibly equal to or better than Good Kid Maad City. I agree 100% that Kendrick is not as good at rhyming words as Lupe is. Few rappers ever are. Lupe isn't nor has ever been the artist Kendrick has proven to be since Section.80. Lupe has some tracks that can conjure emotion (He Say She Say, Hurt Me Soul, etc) but his music comes no where to spanning the range of emotions that Kendrick's music does. Kendrick has proven to be more versatile as well.
Now that sounds general as hell, right? So does this pointless parsing of rapper vs. artist. I disagree that Lupe is a better rapper. I wouldn't even call him a better lyricist. Lupe is definitely the far more complex lyricist though( i.e "rhyming words together"). This actually goes hand in hand with you bringing up Nas. Nas stans think Nas is a better lyricist than Jay. Jay stans think the opposite. Same goes for Pac vs Big. One camp values, similes, metaphors, alliteration, etc, aka the style that's heavier in the poetic elements while the other side says their artist is more "poetic" even though they're not actually getting "bars" but more so prose with straightforward yet effective lyrics that aren't heavy on quotables but is powerful as an overall piece of work. I'm not quoting Nas bars, I'm quoting verses. Same with Kendrick, same with Pac. Whereas I'm quoting a slick simile or double entendre, or metaphor from Jay, or Biggie, or Lupe. That's not to say that the rappers named can't do both. They're all rapping. It's not one or the other. So to say the ability to make a "Murals" makes one a better rapper than the other is a fallacy.
I know this is going to lead to a long ass back and forth and I'm really far more interested in this turkey and getting my drink on, but fukk it
Edit:
I saw this thread upped and realized I never pressed send yesterday
Lupe won grammys, had hits and platinum selling singles. Connecting with the people wasnt Lupe’s issue as your trying to create that narrative. The problem was label politics, black balling, and lack of a team.Show Goes On and Bytch Bad?Cmon breh, who you think you talking too? Those two are not touching Kendrick's song writing ability and the other two songs are his biggest songs to date and he made them many many years ago. He couldn't do that again if he tried if you're asking me.
Another point I want to make is that I'm not just talking about hits but song writing. Even when you look at the way Kendrick does his story telling, it's a gift he has. The way his albums are constructed with a theme from beginning to end is something he also executes better then Lupe who is hit or miss with that imo.
Just like you are saying commercial success is not Lupe's style, doing rappity rap is not Kendrick's style. He probably could do it cause if you hear Rigamortis, his 6 foot 7 Freestyle and Look Out for Detox he flexes that muscle but why do that when it's not gonna make no big money, it's not gonna connect with the people and you are a big time artist.
Now that sounds general as hell, right? So does this pointless parsing of rapper vs. artist. I disagree that Lupe is a better rapper. I wouldn't even call him a better lyricist. Lupe is definitely the far more complex lyricist though( i.e "rhyming words together"). This actually goes hand in hand with you bringing up Nas. Nas stans think Nas is a better lyricist than Jay. Jay stans think the opposite. Same goes for Pac vs Big. One camp values, similes, metaphors, alliteration, etc, aka the style that's heavier in the poetic elements while the other side says their artist is more "poetic" even though they're not actually getting "bars" but more so prose with straightforward yet effective lyrics that aren't heavy on quotables but is powerful as an overall piece of work. I'm not quoting Nas bars, I'm quoting verses. Same with Kendrick, same with Pac. Whereas I'm quoting a slick simile or double entendre, or metaphor from Jay, or Biggie, or Lupe. That's not to say that the rappers named can't do both. They're all rapping. It's not one or the other. So to say the ability to make a "Murals" makes one a better rapper than the other is a fallacy.
I know this is going to lead to a long ass back and forth and I'm really far more interested in this turkey and getting my drink on, but fukk it
Edit:
I saw this thread upped and realized I never pressed send yesterday
He does tho... and honestly, even with how great Kendrick's storytelling ability is, Lupe is one of the best ever in that category as well. For the sake of your point and the fact that you mentioned He Say She Say (which is a timeless song up that IMO is on par with Sing About Me/Dying of Thirst, Kiesha's Song) I'll just post more similar songs to those that match those
This is just keeping it with the heartfelt introspective records, excluding the conceptual timeless songs like The Cool/The Coolest, Hip-Hop Saved My Life/Stack That Cheese, Prisoner 1 & 2, WAV Files etc etc etc
I don't disagree. Kendrick is better at putting together full body's of work than Lupe is. So you'll get more range in the music on a Kendrick project compared to a Lupe project. With that said, I still feel that Lupe is capable of making most of the records that Kendrick can if that makes any sense.
The reason I say Lupe is the better rapper and not the better artist is all due to execution. Lyrically, Kendrick is not touching Lupe Fiasco, but that's not the end all be all when it comes to music. A perfect example would be He Say She Say... Yeah Lupe is capable of making Mural and a Mural Jr, but those songs aren't more powerful/better than He Say She Say which is basically the same verse twice...
I honestly don't even prefer SUPER LUPE RAPS more than let's say medium Lupe Raps. I feel like Lupe's lost the balance between when to be complex and when to just be straightforward with his music further along in his career. He had the perfect mix during the F&L and Cool era, now his music is notably more dense, although I do feel like Drogas WAVE exhibited him more back in a better space in terms of managing complexity with his music and just making great music.
I used to subscribe to the same definition of "lyrical" that I think you're using now, but then I had to ask myself "Can you really look at Dear Mama and say this isn't lyrical?" Is the power of a lyric in the deciphering of it or just what the words themselves are conveying? That's why I'm more than comfortable saying Lupe is easily the more complex lyricist, but I can't say he's the overall better lyricist. Lupe has always had the talent to make any type of song he wanted while still maintaining artistic pride. Paris Tokyo, Superstar, etc prove that. shyt, Lupe used to have gun bars
if we're just talking skillsets, I will to this day say Lupe has the best skillset of any rapper ever. But I have to judge these nikkas on what they put out and while Wasalu has gotten more complex over time I can't say he's grown as an artist.
That's the difference.
It's hilarious to me when yal mention these Kendrick songs showcasing his storytelling ability and always omit His Pain with BJ The Chicago KidLmao The 1st bolded was my point. I also doubt Lupe could even if he did have the team behind him. The reason being that the music industry changed and his kind of music won't connect with the people like it once has. I wouldn't count him out though cause he did make Hiphop Saved My Life and Food and Liquor but the music industry isn't the same. I don't think Lupe should chase hits cause he doesn't have the ability to connect while still spitting like Kendrick does.
The second bolded, We've seen him tell some good stories but not Mortal Man, Keisha's Song or How Much A Dollar Cost level stories. His song writing level is not on the same level as Kendrick on TPAB either as far as range.
The third is a damn lie. Drogas Light was whack and Drogas Wave was filled with filler and way too long.
P.S Lupe only has one Grammy. Kendrick has more
There’s nikkas on TDE that would probably tell you K Dot don’t have a The Cool, or The Coolest level song of you gave them truth serum.
It's hilarious to me when yal mention these Kendrick songs showcasing his storytelling ability and always omit His Pain with BJ The Chicago Kid
Makes me look at a lot of yal posts funny because if you're a Kendrick fan, this is easily one of his best storytelling songs.
It's also tells me not to take your point serious when you say Lupe only has 'good stories' like the nikka hasn't checked off every box when it comes to spitting a story on wax. He's got the traditional hood stories, to the conceptual deep stories, to the just flat out dumb creative stories to his recent album with straight up black mythology fantasy level storytelling with a track like WAV Files
