Dr. Ellis on Michael Eric Dyson, Cornel West and the Black Cultural Crisis

[theworldismine13]

If you understood what I was saying

You wouldn't come to such a dumb ass baseless conclusion

You "we are our own worst enemy" nikkas kill me

What? So you think understanding what you are saying means I have to agree with it?

I understand exactly what you are saying and I don't agree that is the proper way of looking at things

Give me an example of negative black stereotypes in the media where black people aren't fully taking part in?

Or give me a specific example of negative black stereotypes that you think we should go after?

 

[cornercommission2k12]

It's easy to see why it got to be that way because overall black people approve of it or don't care about it

Let's look at the coli for example, Why are y'all fronting like people in the coli won't write a 5 page essay defending chief keef? The reality is that black people have allowed black culture to deteriorate, it's not an outside force it's an inside force, I'm not tryna take take the white executives off the hook but how many people in the coli hate jimmy iovine vs the number that admire him?

When a black woman named Delores tucker attacked white executives black people took the side of the white executives, we are living in the consequences of not standing up for our culture years ago

but what about the overwhelming number of posters who couldn't stand that quasi homosexual ignorant fukk? When do we get represented? What about the millions of blacks tired of the violence, who march protest educate, where is they representation? I can myself grab 20 black mothers I know personally who go to school have good jobs take care of they husbands and children where is they reality show? I can go get 20 black men who have jobs and bust they ass to take care of they family and live great, where is that reality show at?

You can't conclude overall what blacks will accept when we don't own the companies that we can ourselves control and display the images and stories we support. When we have the means like Viacom universal Disney and clear channel to control our own images being exposed then you can't determine what we "overall" will accept.

 

[151_Pr00f]

It's easy to see why it got to be that way because overall black people approve of it or don't care about it

Let's look at the coli for example, Why are y'all fronting like people in the coli won't write a 5 page essay defending chief keef? The reality is that black people have allowed black culture to deteriorate, it's not an outside force it's an inside force, I'm not tryna take take the white executives off the hook but how many people in the coli hate jimmy iovine vs the number that admire him?

When a black woman named Delores tucker attacked white executives black people took the side of the white executives, we are living in the consequences of not standing up for our culture years ago

I would say that more people were indifferent rather than opposed to Delores Tuckers' campaign against gangsta rap music but again that's just going off the overall vibe I got as an adolescence growing up in that era. As a young teen my parents really didn't want me to listen to rap music but they understood that some of the content reflected the values of individuals who where chronically disadvantaged and marginalized in society.

I think at the time Ms. Tucker was fighting against large corporate machine who didn't care that the people they pushed to the forefront of the culture were just collateral for profit. It's ironic because she filled a suit against Tupac, who's message is far more uplifting and conscious compared to what we would label "gangsta rap" by today's standards.

The average black American isn't shooting at rival gangs, selling rocks, sipping lean, hittin licks, or popping molly's. There are also positive representations of black folk in the media (stations like TV one for example). Although it may not attract the same controversy or viewership they'er out there. The most troubling aspect of all of this is how most people, even black people themselves make observations about our culture. Again I'll have to get my sound working but according to his calculations if the division of achievers and non-achievers don't accurately reflect whats being pushed in the media so the issue is deeper than simply an embracing of culture. It's more trying not to soak up the constant barrage of propaganda.

 

[Isaiah Bradley]

Yeah and you are espousing a view that says the future of black people is dependent in white people, which IMO leads to an intellectual, economic and cultural dead end

No sir. I'm just maintaining perspective for the long term goals in regard to black folks' current/future socio-economical position. No one isolated strategy/solution will work, ie integration

Strategies/solutions that do not undermine each other, has to be our focus

 

[theworldismine13]

but what about the overwhelming number of posters who couldn't stand that quasi homosexual ignorant fukk? When do we get represented? What about the millions of blacks tired of the violence, who march protest educate, where is they representation? I can myself grab 20 black mothers I know personally who go to school have good jobs take care of they husbands and children where is they reality show? I can go get 20 black men who have jobs and bust they ass to take care of they family and live great, where is that reality show at?

You can't conclude overall what blacks will accept when we don't own the companies that we can ourselves control and display the images and stories we support. When we have the means like Viacom universal Disney and clear channel to control our own images being exposed then you can't determine what we "overall" will accept.

FYI The question of when do the positive black people get their shine is the exact same question being asked by the video that you are attacking

Chief keef is not some alien creation, chief keef is the result of black people or at least black people in rap siding with white executives instead of going with Delores tucker, and black people are fully partaking in chief keef

Chief keef and the rest of the rap industry is an abomination created by a combination of negroes and white executives, I'm blame the white executives too, but chief keef cannot exist without the acquiescence of black people

You can get 20 of whoever the hell you want but there are millions of black people that partake and wallow in chief keef and real housewives

 

[theworldismine13]

No sir. I'm just maintaining perspective for the long term goals in regard to black folks' current/future socio-economical position. No one isolated strategy/solution will work, ie integration

Strategies/solutions that do not undermine each other, has to be our focus

Breh you just told me that you want to change white people's minds, I'm not putting words in your mouth

It's not a coincidence that baldwins words still apply today because what Baldwin was doing was pursuing a moral strategy of trying to make white people see racism, which is understandable but it's a limited strategy and it won't work in the end

 

[theworldismine13]

I would say that more people were indifferent rather than opposed to Delores Tuckers' campaign against gangsta rap music but again that's just going off the overall vibe I got as an adolescence growing up in that era. As a young teen my parents really didn't want me to listen to rap music but they understood that some of the content reflected the values of individuals who where chronically disadvantaged and marginalized in society.

I think at the time Ms. Tucker was fighting against large corporate machine who didn't care that the people they pushed to the forefront of the culture were just collateral for profit. It's ironic because she filled a suit against Tupac, who's message is far more uplifting and conscious compared to what we would label "gangsta rap" by today's standards.

The average black American isn't shooting at rival gangs, selling rocks, sipping lean, hittin licks, or popping molly's. There are also positive representations of black folk in the media (stations like TV one for example). Although it may not attract the same controversy or viewership they'er out there. The most troubling aspect of all of this is how most people, even black people themselves make observations about our culture. Again I'll have to get my sound working but according to his calculations if the division of achievers and non-achievers don't accurately reflect whats being pushed in the media so the issue is deeper than simply an embracing of culture. It's more trying not to soak up the constant barrage of propaganda.

Indifferent and opposed is the same difference in this case, and us black people in rap were definitely opposed to her, but at the end of the day she was right, and the people that opposed here or were indifferent we're wrong

There was certainly indifference, I think a lot of people felt that attacking rappers or the executives was a waste of time, the question is do we still feel that way? Is attacking chief keef and Viacom a waste of time?

I think Pac like rest of rap certainly started out more positive or at least more balanced, but as anybody that knows anything about tupac there was a slide into dumb shyt by tupac that paralleled the overall slide of rap into dumb shyt, rap like tupac lacked self control and led to his and rap's artistic downfall

 

[Isaiah Bradley]

Breh you just told me that you want to change white people's minds, I'm not putting words in your mouth

It's not a coincidence that baldwins words still apply today because what Baldwin was doing was pursuing a moral strategy of trying to make white people see racism, which is understandable but it's a limited strategy and it won't work in the end

But you are trying to simplify my entire reasoning with "change white folks mind," while ignoring the inclusion of the very things you are arguing that black folks should focus on

You are trying to make it seem like it is not possible to have strategies that both address black folks' socio-economic position and the reasoning that will help to "change white folks mind." You believe that reasoning that white supremacy is a lie will undermine the educational and economical goals, which is not true. They compliment each other

Baldwin was doing his part in the overall goal to improve black conditions and expose the lies of the white supremacist religion for all audiences. Like Harriet Tubman said, I would've saved more slaves, had many of them realized they were slaves

 

[theworldismine13]

But you are trying to simplify my entire reasoning with "change white folks mind," while ignoring the inclusion of the very things you are arguing that black folks should focus on

You are trying to make it seem like it is not possible to have strategies that both address black folks' socio-economic position and the reasoning that will help to "change white folks mind." You believe that reasoning that white supremacy is a lie will undermine the educational and economical goals, which is not true. They compliment each other

Baldwin was doing his part in the overall goal to improve black conditions and expose the lies of the white supremacist religion for all audiences. Like Harriet Tubman said, I would've saved more slaves, had many of them realized they were slaves

No what I'm trying to do is put things in order of their effectiveness, #1 is force or threat of force #2 is economics #3 is morality

I don't disagree with anything Baldwin said, I'm just explaining what he was doing in terms of effectiveness

 

[Isaiah Bradley]

No what I'm trying to do is put things in order of their effectiveness, #1 is force or threat of force #2 is economics #3 is morality

I don't disagree with anything Baldwin said, I'm just explaining what he was doing in terms of effectiveness

oh ok. I wasn't talking in term of effectiveness, but simply in doing things that encourage progress toward the same goal and/or complimenting it

 

[cornercommission2k12]

What? So you think understanding what you are saying means I have to agree with it?

I understand exactly what you are saying and I don't agree that is the proper way of looking at things

Give me an example of negative black stereotypes in the media where black people aren't fully taking part in?

Or give me a specific example of negative black stereotypes that you think we should go after?

Well there ya go

Screw education job opportunities and trades being taught, ya know the other elements it takes to build productive community and culture. We need to devise a program to make sure there are absolutely no bad black people running around. Gotcha

It's the Chinese people fault they are known as slanted little bitty eyed guys who do karate all day, cause you know they have people who participate in karate

It's the Mexicans fault they are known as illegal immigrants who pile up into cars 15 deep and sell oranges because you know, there are some who participate in it

It's the black African fault they are known as half naked savages who live in jungles cause you know, there are people who actually live primitively

And the solution for the Chinese is to stop all of thier people from doing karate, the solution for the Mexicans is to stop all illegal immigration and the answer for the Africans is to remove all the people out the jungle.

Meanwhile although there are whites who chop bodies up and eat them, who lure black guys over and kill them then have sex with their bodies, white people who shoot up schools and malls, they are not placed with the burden of making that go away totally as those from the uncle ruckus school of thought will always equate everything good and pure with white people . Good job buddy

 

[theworldismine13]

Well there ya go

Screw education job opportunities and trades being taught, ya know the other elements it takes to build productive community and culture. We need to devise a program to make sure there are absolutely no bad black people running around. Gotcha

It's the Chinese people fault they are known as slanted little bitty eyed guys who do karate all day, cause you know they have people who participate in karate

It's the Mexicans fault they are known as illegal immigrants who pile up into cars 15 deep and sell oranges because you know, there are some who participate in it

It's the black African fault they are known as half naked savages who live in jungles cause you know, there are people who actually live primitively

And the solution for the Chinese is to stop all of thier people from doing karate, the solution for the Mexicans is to stop all illegal immigration and the answer for the Africans is to remove all the people out the jungle.

Meanwhile although there are whites who chop bodies up and eat them, who lure black guys over and kill them then have sex with their bodies, white people who shoot up schools and malls, they are not placed with the burden of making that go away totally as those from the uncle ruckus school of thought will always equate everything good and pure with white people . Good job buddy

I have little interest in trying to convince white people to stop being racist, I think it's a waste of time and I think this notion of trying to stop white racism is itself a form of white supremacy

The bottom line is that the onus is in black people to fix black problems, same goes to the other people you mentioned who btw are for the most part just as racist as white people

 

[151_Pr00f]

I have little interest in trying to convince white people to stop being racist, I think it's a waste of time and I think this notion of trying to stop white racism is itself a form of white supremacy

The bottom line is that the onus is in black people to fix black problems, same goes to the other people you mentioned who btw are for the most part just as racist as white people

Would you agree that black folks having little to no control of their overall representation in the media as an issue of white supremacy? Sure there are black people who fit this representation, but if the overwhelming majority don't why would you dismiss it as something insignificant? Again it comes down to what black people value vs what the corporate propaganda machine says black people value.

 

[theworldismine13]

Would you agree that black folks having little to no control of their overall representation in the media as an issue of white supremacy? Sure there are black people who fit this representation, but if the overwhelming majority don't why would you dismiss it as something insignificant? Again it comes down to what black people value vs what the corporate propaganda machine says black people value.

I think the media representation of blacks is a joint effort between white executives and certain black people that want to make money, I don't think either group gets off the hook

I would not agree with the statement that black people have no control over our media representation

 

[theworldismine13]

oh ok. I wasn't talking in term of effectiveness, but simply in doing things that encourage progress toward the same goal and/or complimenting it

Yeah, I agree with that, Baldwin does an excellent job of explaining white racism and it's impact on black people, but bottom line there is no consequence to a white person if they do not listen to Baldwin, that is why Baldwin is just talking to the wind

But if we start increasing our economic and military power then all of sudden people will start listening to Baldwin more