for you historians out there, what was ECW's downfall?

[stro]

A number of things:

Paul Heyman was as terrible of a businessman as he was a great writer/promoter

The in ring style was unsustainable, both from a creative and physical aspect (the crazy stunts had to get crazier and crazier to raise the ante and keep popping crowds)

Heyman couldn't/wouldn't/didn't pay people, and there was no reason for guys to stay there for little to no money when they could get big money from WWF/WCW

Creatively, Heyman was shot by 1998

The roster was generally garbage, so of course the handful of decent dudes would get picked off by bigger promotions

It was firmly rooted in late 90s trash and would have fallen off regardless

 

[Arrogance.]

Damn. Candidio got fukked the worst

Standard operating procedure for Candidio. Your girl is the ring rat for the entire WWF locker room, you're always injured in ECW, and you die due to a blood clot from an in ring injury in TNAwhat could he have done to deserve all of this?

 

[TravexdaGod]

When WCW and WWF started modernizing and becoming more risque, ECW lost its edge to me, at least creatively. It was at its best in 1994 - Barely Legal 1997 when it was a true cutting edge alternative at a time when North American wrestling was in the doldrums. When the big two caught up, they had a larger audience, more money and more resources to throw at implementing what was essentially ECW's ideas. A small company who's greatest claim was that they were cutting edge and against the mainstream becomes less relevant and revolutionary when compared to much bigger promotions who catch up to them. From there it was a slow fall to the bottom, combined with the other factors previously mentioned.

 

[DaHNIC82]

yeah that 2000-2001 roster was a bag of ass besides RVD. Justin Credible, Rhyno, CW Anderson, Danny Doring and Steve Corino don't even come close to the period when the top guys were Raven, Sandman, Taz, Sabu and Douglas

You can tell they were really affected and scraping at the bottom of the barrel with talent. You forgot about Jerry Lynn. Dude blossomed as one of the best workers in the country in 1999-2000

 

[DaHNIC82]

This

They weren't raided, they just found better gigs

at New Jack's amount being unknown

 

[Willy Waffle]

We gotta stop with "raids". Raids implies stealing, something done by force. These dudes got better offers to work at another job with more job security and money coming on time. Yall never saw the list of wrestlers that were owed $$$ by ECW when they closed? I wouldnt let my job miss one check, let alone racking up a $50,000 debt to me.

Noted in the enormous list of creditors comprised of cable companies, travel agencies, media corporations (including TNN), advertising agencies, hospitals, insurance companies, financial institutions, courier companies, universities and plaintiffs with personal injury suits against ECW are these former ECW wrestlers, managers and announcers:

• Bill Alphonso: $5,000.
• C.W. Anderson: $500.
• Angel (Baldies): $500.
• Scotty Anton: Unknown amount.
• Steve Corino: None.
• Justin Credible: $7,990.
• Lou E. Dangerously: $7,000.
• Juilo Deniro: $300.
• Devito (Baldies): $500.
• Simon Diamond: $9,000.
• Danny Doring: $2,100.
• Shane Douglas: $48,000.
• Spike Dudley: Unknown amount.
• Francine: $47,275.
• Chris Hamrick: $300.
• Don Callis: $12,000.
• Little Guido: $25,000.
• Jazz: $1000.
• Jerry Lynn: Unknown amount.
• Balls Mahoney: $4,000.
• Tony Mamaluke: $600.
• Dawn Marie: $9,000.
• Thomas Marquez: $500.
• James Mitchell (Sinister Minister): Unknown.
• EZ Money: $300.
• New Jack: Unknown amount.
• Nova: $4,000.
• Roadkill: $21,250.
• Rhyno: $50,000.
• Sabu: None.
• The Sandman: Unknown amount.
• Johnny Swinger: Unknown amount.
• Joey Styles: $50,480.
• Super Crazy: $5,000.
• Tajiri: $5,000.
• Rob Van Dam: $150,000.
• Jack Victory: $3,000.
• Mikey Whipwreck: $12,000.
• Chilly Willy: $500.

Like I alluded to in my first reply up there, they were owed $860,000 in accounts receivable, partly PPV money that the PPV companies were trying to hold out on (edit - found this in the Observer:The assets include $800,000 in accounts receivable from In Demand, $50,000 from
Acclaim and $10,000 from Original San Francisco Toymakers. ) Accounts receivable is a bytch. If you dont have reserves or a credit line, you could be rich on paper and broke in reality

that shyt is fukked up. paul e was just a horrible fukking business man.

i think it was danny doring shoot or either justin credible but paul e supposedly owed chris candido 250K over the course of the years. candido and sunny was back on house payments and candido still wanted to work for paul e simple caused he believed in that motherfukka . im sorry, nut if some one owe me 250K and i see them everyday and know where they at?

paul e was literally the jim jones of wrestling. he lied to all them guys, and fed them bullshyt about getting a new deal an they still believed in that guy.

ecw was never going to be as big as wcw, or wwf but they could have survived on the indy scene. they were actually drawing solid crowd outside of philly and the tri-state area.

 

[stro]

You can tell they were really affected and scraping at the bottom of the barrel with talent. You forgot about Jerry Lynn. Dude blossomed as one of the best workers in the country in 1999-2000

fukk Jerry Lynn. He was basically the prototype for bland, charisma-less indie dudes doing a bunch of spots with no stories. Those matches with RVD are so fukking dumb and inspired so many shytty dudes like Davey Richards.


All these dudes thought they could do Dynamite/Tiger Mask level shyt and even 30 years later they can't compare.

 

[R=G]

Heyman was in over his head with controlling money and finances...lol.

 

[Wacky D]

They weren't bigger than WCW because they weren't bringing in the money WCW but their following was a lot bigger. Only reason ECW didn't bring in money like WCW was because they couldn't run the same venues because they couldn't afford to rent them. Give Heyman Ted Turner and that bankroll and he is still up and running with ECW today.

Also people forget that Nitro was still getting 2's in the ratings consistently when they were sold, any cable executive will tell you that they would kill for that.

ecw had a rabid cult following but they didn't have a bigger overall following than wcw breh.

 

[Un-AmericanDreamer]

Sabu: None. What is the story behind that?

 

[Reality Check]

Sabu: None. What is the story behind that?

Guessing he was probably paid in weed.

 

[SteelCitySoldier]

ecw had a rabid cult following but they didn't have a bigger overall following than wcw breh.

At the time that WCW "died" ECW had a bigger following than WCW bruh, believe it or not.

 

[mrken12]

Speaking of Sabu, can someone point me to some of his good matches? I'd like to think that he's more than just a botch machine.

I'm going to assume that he doesn't have any good matches?

 

[Playaz Eyez]

fukk Jerry Lynn. He was basically the prototype for bland, charisma-less indie dudes doing a bunch of spots with no stories. Those matches with RVD are so fukking dumb and inspired so many shytty dudes like Davey Richards.


All these dudes thought they could do Dynamite/Tiger Mask level shyt and even 30 years later they can't compare.

Lol.

I'm going to assume that he doesn't have any good matches?

You'd be correct. Sabu was basically nothing more than a higher regarded New Jack. All dude did was botch his entire career, even during his prime (or "prime", I couldn't even tell you when he was at his peak cause whether it was 1994, 2006 in WWECW, or currently, he's always wrestled the same). Jeff Hardy took everything Sabu did and made it much better and appealing, even while drunk and drugged up

 

[NV-ME]

big leagues had more money for the stars.