Future - "Reasonable Doubt was not hot when it dropped"

[bigbadbossup2012]

it was good enough to get him a deal at def jam

ok....... even dudes with lesser credentials signed to Def jam....

 

[lutha]

ok....... even dudes with lesser credentials signed to Def jam....

lol ok

 

[Still Benefited]

i havent read that shyt, that was yall convo...i've only came back in this thread when i was quoted lol...

i'm not acting like a debut artist cant do numbers....just pointing out normally a debut artist isnt gonna do numbers like an established artists, so that shouldnt be held against that debut artist....

as for that impact shyt: that's different than whether an artist was hot or not...future said hot...that's what i stated my opinion on....yall added in impact, mark, classic, etc., which is a different convo....

ok, that's cool...

your using your own definition of hot instead of the context of the video is the problem though,u gotta admit.

I think you more offended by the fact people always like to use the "he wasnt hot while Pac and Big was alive" argument against em,which i hate as a jay fan too....which is stupid btw,how about we discount all the 80's legends that fell off as our favorite 90's rappers came in the game....not all them nikkas was washed,they just couldnt compete,but we dont discount they work....i thought we compared prime for primes when talking goats?but not when its Jay i guess.... I dont get mad when people say Pac didnt make a huge impact with 2pacalypse now....who gives a shyt,he went on to be the goat and hit his stride 2nd album in


Can you put the music Jay released up against the musical goats of any era is the ONLY question,unless u like petty arguments of course,which i do from time to time


In the grand scheme its an irrelevent talking point....Nas had a head start and Jay lapped him,Biggie was bigger than Jay now Jay is considered greater by most who arent blind Biggie stans.

and you should read the convo,because alot of peoples hypocrisy was exposed....same cats acting like Jay wasnt hot in comparison to Biggie,Pac,Nas when RD came out....dodging the fact by those standards,Nas wasnt hot when Illmatic came out...compare Nas to the hottest nikkas in the game in 93/94 at the time like Future did with Jay...and its just as ugly as Nas as it is for Jay on the "hot" scale.


So Future is actually wrong,but i kinda think he thinks Nas first album was It Was Written?thats what i wanna know.

 

[lutha]

your using your own definition of hot instead of the context of the video is the problem though,u gotta admit.

I think you more offended by the fact people always like to use the "he wasnt hot while Pac and Big was alive" argument against em,which i hate as a jay fan too....which is stupid btw,how about we discount all the 80's legends that fell off as our favorite 90's rappers came in the game....not all them nikkas was washed,they just couldnt compete,but we dont discount they work....i thought we compared prime for primes when talking goats?but not when its Jay i guess.... I dont get mad when people say Pac didnt make a huge impact with 2pacalypse now....who gives a shyt,he went on to be the goat and hit his stride 2nd album in


Can you put the music Jay released up against the musical goats of any era is the ONLY question,unless u like petty arguments of course,which i do from time to time


In the grand scheme its an irrelevent talking point....Nas had a head start and Jay lapped him,Biggie was bigger than Jay now Jay is considered greater by most who arent blind Biggie stans.

and you should read the convo,because alot of peoples hypocrisy was exposed....same cats acting like Jay wasnt hot in comparison to Biggie,Pac,Nas when RD came out....dodging the fact by those standards,Nas wasnt hot when Illmatic came out...compare Nas to the hottest nikkas in the game in 93/94 at the time like Future did with Jay...and its just as ugly as Nas as it is for Jay on the "hot" scale.

you right, i'm using my own def of hot...sales, impact, etc. not in my def...

naw, not offended at that...i feel to each their own opinion wise...people only listen to music for themselves, so whom they enjoy more is cool....it annoys me when people try to state their opinions as facts and/or that their opinion is the only opinion there should be.....prime for prime is a different convo....yea, he did go on to become one of the greatest....

lol ok...i'll go back and check the rest of the thread out...

 

[spliz]

your using your own definition of hot instead of the context of the video is the problem though,u gotta admit.

I think you more offended by the fact people always like to use the "he wasnt hot while Pac and Big was alive" argument against em,which i hate as a jay fan too....which is stupid btw,how about we discount all the 80's legends that fell off as our favorite 90's rappers came in the game....not all them nikkas was washed,they just couldnt compete,but we dont discount they work....i thought we compared prime for primes when talking goats?but not when its Jay i guess.... I dont get mad when people say Pac didnt make a huge impact with 2pacalypse now....who gives a shyt,he went on to be the goat and hit his stride 2nd album in


Can you put the music Jay released up against the musical goats of any era is the ONLY question,unless u like petty arguments of course,which i do from time to time


In the grand scheme its an irrelevent talking point....Nas had a head start and Jay lapped him,Biggie was bigger than Jay now Jay is considered greater by most who arent blind Biggie stans.

and you should read the convo,because alot of peoples hypocrisy was exposed....same cats acting like Jay wasnt hot in comparison to Biggie,Pac,Nas when RD came out....dodging the fact by those standards,Nas wasnt hot when Illmatic came out...compare Nas to the hottest nikkas in the game in 93/94 at the time like Future did with Jay...and its just as ugly as Nas as it is for Jay on the "hot" scale.


So Future is actually wrong,but i kinda think he thinks Nas first album was It Was Written?thats what i wanna know.

u would be wrong. U think the whole argument is about sales and that's where u fukkin up at. Put it like this. If Jay came out with RD in 96 and everyone was actin like he revolutionized rhyming n shyt and had great critical and street reception. Regardless of his album sales. Future would be wrong. Nas with Illmatic was considered the nikka to bring the east back until Biggie came along wit that polished sound and crushed the buildings. Nas was being hailed as the next Rakim n all that shyt. Regardless of his sales. Regardless of what u feel. Hip hop at the time was very much a NY thing. It was still considered the mecca even tho the west was killin shyt. Nas was one of the artist to bring the surge back to NY. Along wit Wu Tang and Biggie. U can say he mattered more locally being that he was very much a big deal to what we was doin and being that we the mecca it mattered THAT much more on a hip hop scale. Jay wasn't even looked at in that way locally. Not nationally. None of that. He was a new cat wit a dope album. And people seem to not understand that. And it's not a knock on him. Look at him now. And his album has that status now. Not every piece of art is gonna be fully appreciated off bat. Some shyt needs to resonate.

 

[shynewhatts]

He aint lying nobody was rocking with jay like that until pac and biggie died which cleared a path for joe camel.

 

[gluvnast]

Most of the credit to Irv? Naw.
On some deal making shyt yea, but as far as Jay becoming hot, credit to bad boy crew,puff .
Biggest features on first album
Were Mary and biggie, two stars created and executive produced by puff.
He was featured doing the intro on biggie artist's and bad boy affiliates Lil Kim's classic debut.
Appeared on bigs classic double album.
Appeared on Puff's classic album
Appeared on ma$e classic album
Those albums would go on to sale
23 million plus.
Had a very bad boyish sounding second album.
Also had a stint in NO Way out tour.
He was ready for the big stage and finally had a mega hit with HARD KNOCK LIFE, although not produced by the team, was along that formula of success.

Irv Gotti was the reason behind getting DMX, Jay-Z, and his own boy, Ja Rule, on the map of success. He was Def Jam's A&R... that was his fucckin' JOB!!! You need to learn more about the recording business. Being mega-stars doesn't happen just because, there's a lot of moves that have to be made to get them where they need to be to reach that level. Same way as when Puff was working for Uptown Records and was responsible for Mary J. Blige and Jodeci in making them superstars. Irv Gotti's contribution was significant. He's the one that positioned these people to achieve that goal.

 

[bigbadbossup2012]

Most of the credit to Irv? Naw.
On some deal making shyt yea, but as far as Jay becoming hot, credit to bad boy crew,puff .
Biggest features on first album
Were Mary and biggie, two stars created and executive produced by puff.
He was featured doing the intro on biggie artist's and bad boy affiliates Lil Kim's classic debut.
Appeared on bigs classic double album.
Appeared on Puff's classic album
Appeared on ma$e classic album
Those albums would go on to sale
23 million plus.
Had a very bad boyish sounding second album.
Also had a stint in NO Way out tour.
He was ready for the big stage and finally had a mega hit with HARD KNOCK LIFE, although not produced by the team, was along that formula of success.

Irv Gotti was the reason behind getting DMX, Jay-Z, and his own boy, Ja Rule, on the map of success. He was Def Jam's A&R... that was his fucckin' JOB!!! You need to learn more about the recording business. Being mega-stars doesn't happen just because, there's a lot of moves that have to be made to get them where they need to be to reach that level. Same way as when Puff was working for Uptown Records and was responsible for Mary J. Blige and Jodeci in making them superstars. Irv Gotti's contribution was significant. He's the one that positioned these people to achieve that goal.

Anyone can clearly see I provided more evidence of whom did what.
I know irv was a&r
I know him and Jay was down since 88
But I also know puff/biggie
Brought ny back
And the acts that immediately followed was using their team or style of music to get hot.
Puffy is the fukking Don.

 

[bigbadbossup2012]

u would be wrong. U think the whole argument is about sales and that's where u fukkin up at. Put it like this. If Jay came out with RD in 96 and everyone was actin like he revolutionized rhyming n shyt and had great critical and street reception. Regardless of his album sales. Future would be wrong. Nas with Illmatic was considered the nikka to bring the east back until Biggie came along wit that polished sound and crushed the buildings. Nas was being hailed as the next Rakim n all that shyt. Regardless of his sales. Regardless of what u feel. Hip hop at the time was very much a NY thing. It was still considered the mecca even tho the west was killin shyt. Nas was one of the artist to bring the surge back to NY. Along wit Wu Tang and Biggie. U can say he mattered more locally being that he was very much a big deal to what we was doin and being that we the mecca it mattered THAT much more on a hip hop scale. Jay wasn't even looked at in that way locally. Not nationally. None of that. He was a new cat wit a dope album. And people seem to not understand that. And it's not a knock on him. Look at him now. And his album has that status now. Not every piece of art is gonna be fully appreciated off bat. Some shyt needs to resonate.

In what way was new York TRYING TO COME BACK?

 

[spliz]

In what way was new York TRYING TO COME BACK?

The sound. The west coast was running shyt as far as sound n everything. Biggie kinda fused things and that's why it worked out so well for him. And yall getting it twisted thinking I'm talking about one or the other as far as sales or critical and street response. Nas had the critical/street response/hype. He didn't sell what was espected but my main point is Jay had NONE of these things. He didn't have the hype Nas or Biggie had. And he didn't have the commercial success that Biggie had or Snoop etc etc.

 

[bigbadbossup2012]

The sound. The west coast was running shyt as far as sound n everything. Biggie kinda fused things and that's why it worked out so well for him. And yall getting it twisted thinking I'm talking about one or the other as far as sales or critical and street response. Nas had the critical/street response/hype. He didn't sell what was espected but my main point is Jay had NONE of these things. He didn't have the hype Nas or Biggie had. And he didn't have the commercial success that Biggie had or Snoop etc etc.

I saw zero street hype for nas. I dont remember that at all.
Now what was going on with "sound" that nas came through and changed?
What was going on with sound that was a problem?
NY's sound or hiphop's sound at large?

 

[bigbadbossup2012]

every album is like the same thing, it's not 'hot' when it drops
but when you re listen to the album like after a few months or a year, then it's fire
although, marketing has a huge factor when it comes to determine what is hot as soon as the album drops as it plays a major role

i think the only album that was really as soon as it dropped was the 7 day theory by 2pac.. shyt was magical..

Nonsense.
Plenty albums were hot off top.

 

[spliz]

I saw zero street hype for nas. I dont remember that at all.
Now what was going on with "sound" that nas came through and changed?
What was going on with sound that was a problem?
NY's sound or hiphop's sound at large?

Son but thats just ur specific experience. U ask someone like @Art Barr who is from Chicago and the hype was real for him. Ask @hex who's from Kansas City i believe and he felt it. U may not have known Nas if u was a casual fan or someone who didnt really give a fukk what was goin on in NY but if u paid attention to hip hop u knew who Nas was.
And as far as what changed? All of it. Even NY artists started biting the west coast sound and Wu was the first in line to bring it back and do something original that was representing us and actually getting attention for it. Nas came thru and the momentum was building. From an emcee standpoint he was getting hailed as the next Rskim and dropped a crazy album. Then Biggie came thru and sealed the deal. NY had its identity again. From sound to commercial appeal. It all worked hand in hand and Nas was one of the contributors.

 

[Jack Trippa 3z company ho]

Anybody saying RD was a hit when it dropped either was not around during that time, or maybe lived in Brooklyn at the time.

NOBODY checked for this album at all when it dropped. Jay was unknown to the world outside of NY until he did I'll be with Foxy. He had no lane till Big and PAC died. He was irrelevant.

Even then, most people didn't know who he was till he dropped Hard Knock Life and that only blew because of the Annie sample and bytches liked it.

Saying otherwise shows you weren't there at the time.

 

[bigbadbossup2012]

1Son but thats just ur specific experience. U ask someone like @Art Barr who is from Chicago and the hype was real for him. Ask @hex who's from Kansas City i believe and he felt it. 2U may not have known Nas if u was a casual fan or someone who didnt really give a fukk what was goin on in NY but if u paid attention to hip hop u knew who Nas was.
3And as far as what changed? All of it. Even NY artists started biting the west coast sound and Wu was the first in line to bring it back and do something original that was representing us and actually getting attention for it. Nas came thru and the momentum was building. From an emcee standpoint he was getting hailed as the next Rskim and dropped a crazy album. Then Biggie came thru and sealed the deal. NY had its identity again. From sound to commercial appeal. It all worked hand in hand and Nas was one of the contributors.

1.Dude summoning them nikkas can't help you. Nas wasnt shyt in the grand scheme like i said.
2.Lmao,I did know Nas,we had that album in real time during it's actual run.
Songs like IT AINT HARD TO TELL & LIFE'S A bytch were dubbed off the tape on to my maxell tapes along side other songs I was bumping at the time.
But none of my friends were fukking with that album as a whole,no one from any hood I went to or school were talking about it or bumping it in their walkmans,blasting out of their cars or apt windows.
3.I didnt ask you what changed before Nas.
I asked what NAS CHANGED. And we know the answer,NOTHING!
Now,whom were some of the Ny artists prior to wutang (and later nas) coming through, that were biting the west coast?
Where's the evidence that NAS changed this back to a more east coast direction?
If Nas did such a great job shifting the sound,why did he immediately shift his sound to stay in the game?
When someone like dmx came through and was popping,he didnt have to change to what some other nikkas was doing on his followup.
He did what him and his nikkas was doing.