Future - "Reasonable Doubt was not hot when it dropped"

[spliz]

Pac before illmatic


Pac after Illmatic

Pac after IWW.

 

[Gravity]

For one. Trackmasters weren't just some Bad Boy producers. Actually Puff stole from them. But that's another story. Second.

Up until they worked with nas on iww their credits were with bad boy affiliated artists. Nas admitted to being influenced by bad boy so I'm not sure why you're even arguing here. I didn't say that iww sounded like a bad boy album I'm saying that bad deliberately set out to make a more commercially accepted album.

This ain't about who likes what better either. Even Future said the album is classic. I feel that way too. The argument is what about Jay not having any impact when he first released. Which is true. Then he mentioned Nas saying that Nas was basically a big deal from when he dropped. Which is also true. Nas made an impact on release. He made a cultural impact. It's undeniable and undebateable.

That's not what future was saying because future implied that nas debuted with if I ruled the world. He didn't say anything about illmatic because he probably was introduced to nas with iww which proves my point. Nas wasn't as hot as the top cats in the game like big and pac when he first came out the same way that Jay wasn't. The same cats tryna use that to low key shade Jay are making excuses for nas.

This ain't about who liked what more. But nikkas sat this whole thread and twisted nikkas like me and my words around to deviate from a simple fact. Know why? They mad. And now . I'm too wise to argue wit fools at this point.

You quoted me tho bruh. I haven't twisted anything that you've said. If this isn't about who you like more then why are cheerleading for nas? You're still on that Jay vs nas shyt my dude.

We should all be able to agree that future doesn't know what the fukk he's talking about.

 

[spliz]

Up until they worked with nas on iww their credits were with bad boy affiliated artists. Nas admitted to being influenced by bad boy so I'm not sure why you're even arguing here. I didn't say that iww sounded like a bad boy album I'm saying that bad deliberately set out to make a more commercially accepted album.

That's not what future was saying because future implied that nas debuted with if I ruled the world. He didn't say anything about illmatic because he probably was introduced to nas with iww which proves my point. Nas wasn't as hot as the top cats in the game like big and pac when he first came out the same way that Jay wasn't. The same cats tryna use that to low key shade Jay are making excuses for nas.

You quoted me tho bruh. I haven't twisted anything that you've said. If this isn't about who you like more then why are cheerleading for nas? You're still on that Jay vs nas shyt my dude.

We should all be able to agree that future doesn't know what the fukk he's talking about.

Didn't read. Lol. But

 

[Gravity]

Didn't read. Lol. But

With feminine ass cats like you running around it's no wonder some ugly duke bytch who can't rap is kony

 

[bigbadbossup2012]

Pac after IWW.

Yea it was written was a big album in 1996. Had the ears of America.
Very creative songs on there and nas got a lil jiggy bad boyish to get known.
I respect it.

 

[spliz]

With feminine ass cats like you running around it's no wonder some ugly duke bytch who can't rap is kony

Whatever lil nikka u don't wanna take it there. What's really important is

 

[bigbadbossup2012]

Let's start.

1.You had 2 type of rappers, The MC and the Conscious rapper. The old rappers (Rakim, BDK, De la soul, ATCQ Public Enemy etc. ) who fall under these categories are not cutting it anymore.

2The east needs something new to combat against the West Coast. This began the quick flow/tongue twister style (das efx, Lords of the Underground, Naughty by Nature, Even Jay-z started out like this etc). This pushed the whole gritty NY/East Coast style. Tough grimy beats, hard lyrics, complex rhyming/flow. Though popular, it was too distinct and started to getting old after a few years. The style wasn't natural and was off putting to some, especially to you people outside of the east.

3Enter Illmatic. It was perfect. Nas took the artistry of the MC, the mindset of the Conscious rapper and the hardcore style of the tongue twister, but left out the over the top flow. This laid the groundwork for everybody. Don't believe me, Go listen to Onyx-Slam or NBN-Hip Hop Hooray and ask yourself "Why don't we rap like this anymore?". 4Nas killed the 3 styles and merged them into one, that's why.

5Was Illmatic a commercial success? No, but guaranteed if you a rapper on the east this was your study guide/your bible/your new standard. This is what make it a classic, it changed the way his mentors, peers and students looked at rapping.

This is why Nas can say "Name a rapper that I ain't influence?" and never get checked for it. Because it's true.

Anyone in this thread discrediting Illmatic is not a true hip-hop fan. You are a poser that needs to do your history or just stick to Eminem.

1. So you're saying rappers were 1/2 things,lol yeaaaaaa
When you say old rappers like (Rakim, BDK, De la soul, ATCQ Public Enemy etc.) werent cutting it anymore,what exactly do you mean? What were they failing to do?

2.The east needed something to combat the west coast,why? What was the west coast doing that needed to be countered?

3. Illmatic was far from perfect. Perfect album with high praise and regular video rotation, dont flop like that. All that he was doing had been done before by rakim,no?
What was Nas doing on illmatic that Rakim wasn't already doing?
As far as shifting styles,the year illmatic dropped we still had stylish rappers coming out and outselling him. Old dirty went gold in half the time Nas did,in the same era. Method was outselling him. Other stylish artist like Da brat,coolio, outkast and Bone destroyed him too. So what shift?

4.Nas WAS JUST A not quite as positive Rakim. That's all he had in 1994.


5. No one was arguing how much east coast took to it,we said it meant little on a national scale. Which is true.

You can't say it was a new standard,when biggie was the guy to take over. Not only did he take over. Nas flopped and took to a bad boy formula to finally become a star. Puff and biggie were laying the blueprint. Nas and jay followed

 

[spliz]

Also. People need to stop saying Future don't know Illmatic was Nas' debut. They have the same manager and Nas was on an Illmatic promo run for like the last 2 years.
He made 2 statements. "When Nas dropped he was hot", "when If I Ruled The World dropped it was hot". And I'm not the one who turned this shyt into a Nas thread. My very first statement in this thread was Future wasn't lying cause Jay has said this himself. When nikkas started comparing Reasonable Doubt's impact to Illmatic that's when shyt went left cause that statement is factually false.

 

[spliz]

1. So you're saying rappers were 1/2 things,lol yeaaaaaa
When you say old rappers like (Rakim, BDK, De la soul, ATCQ Public Enemy etc.) werent cutting it anymore,what exactly do you mean? What were they failing to do?

2.The east needed something to combat the west coast,why? What was the west coast doing that needed to be countered?

3. Illmatic was far from perfect. Perfect album with high praise and regular video rotation, dont flop like that. All that he was doing had been done before by rakim,no?
What was Nas doing on illmatic that Rakim wasn't already doing?
As far as shifting styles,the year illmatic dropped we still had stylish rappers coming out and outselling him. Old dirty went gold in half the time Nas did,in the same era. Method was outselling him. Other stylish artist like outkast and Bone destroyed him too. So what shift?

4.Nas WAS JUST A not quite as positive Rakim. That's all he had in 1994.


5. No one was arguing how much east coast took to it,we said it meant little on a national scale. Which is true.

You can't say it was a new standard,when biggie was the guy to take over. Not only did he take over. Nas flopped and took to a bad boy formula to finally become a star. Puff and biggie were laying the blueprint. Nas and jay followed

Nope. Stylistically he was more G Rap. Try again. Oh and

 

[bigbadbossup2012]

Nope. Stylistically he was more G Rap. Try again. Oh and

No need to be mad,just spitting facts

Let's start.

You had 2 type of rappers, The MC and the Conscious rapper. The old rappers (Rakim, BDK, De la soul, ATCQ Public Enemy etc. ) who fall under these categories are not cutting it anymore.

The east needs something new to combat against the West Coast. This began the quick flow/tongue twister style (das efx, Lords of the Underground, Naughty by Nature, Even Jay-z started out like this etc). This pushed the whole gritty NY/East Coast style. Tough grimy beats, hard lyrics, complex rhyming/flow. Though popular, it was too distinct and started to getting old after a few years. The style wasn't natural and was off putting to some, especially to you people outside of the east.

Enter Illmatic. It was perfect. Nas took the artistry of the MC, the mindset of the Conscious rapper and the hardcore style of the tongue twister, but left out the over the top flow. This laid the groundwork for everybody. Don't believe me, Go listen to Onyx-Slam or NBN-Hip Hop Hooray and ask yourself "Why don't we rap like this anymore?". Nas killed the 3 styles and merged them into one, that's why.

Was Illmatic a commercial success? No, but guaranteed if you a rapper on the east this was your study guide/your bible/your new standard. This is what make it a classic, it changed the way his mentors, peers and students looked at rapping.

This is why Nas can say "Name a rapper that I ain't influence?" and never get checked for it. Because it's true.

Anyone in this thread discrediting Illmatic is not a true hip-hop fan. You are a poser that needs to do your history or just stick to Eminem.

1. So you're saying rappers were 1/2 things,lol yeaaaaaa
When you say old rappers like (Rakim, BDK, De la soul, ATCQ Public Enemy etc.) werent cutting it anymore,what exactly do you mean? What were they failing to do?

2.The east needed something to combat the west coast,why? What was the west coast doing that needed to be countered?

3. Illmatic was far from perfect. Perfect album with high praise and regular video rotation, dont flop like that. All that he was doing had been done before by rakim,no?
What was Nas doing on illmatic that Rakim wasn't already doing?
As far as shifting styles,the year illmatic dropped we still had stylish rappers coming out and outselling him. Old dirty went gold in half the time Nas did,in the same era. Method was outselling him. Other stylish artist like Da brat,coolio, outkast and Bone destroyed him too. So what shift?

4.Nas WAS JUST A not quite as positive Rakim. That's all he had in 1994.


5. No one was arguing how much east coast took to it,we said it meant little on a national scale. Which is true.

You can't say it was a new standard,when biggie was the guy to take over. Not only did he take over. Nas flopped and took to a bad boy formula to finally become a star. Puff and biggie were laying the blueprint. Nas and jay followed

 

[bigbadbossup2012]

Great post.

I know an older cat who was trying to get into the rap game back in the early 90s. When Illmatic came out, he quit

I'm sure he's not the only one.

That was stupid,he quit cause he was impressed by a flop. Stupid old nikka

 

[Tom Foolery]

1. So you're saying rappers were 1/2 things,lol yeaaaaaa
When you say old rappers like (Rakim, BDK, De la soul, ATCQ Public Enemy etc.) werent cutting it anymore,what exactly do you mean? What were they failing to do?

2.The east needed something to combat the west coast,why? What was the west coast doing that needed to be countered?

3. Illmatic was far from perfect. Perfect album with high praise and regular video rotation, dont flop like that. All that he was doing had been done before by rakim,no?
What was Nas doing on illmatic that Rakim wasn't already doing?
As far as shifting styles,the year illmatic dropped we still had stylish rappers coming out and outselling him. Old dirty went gold in half the time Nas did,in the same era. Method was outselling him. Other stylish artist like Da brat,coolio, outkast and Bone destroyed him too. So what shift?

4.Nas WAS JUST A not quite as positive Rakim. That's all he had in 1994.


5. No one was arguing how much east coast took to it,we said it meant little on a national scale. Which is true.

You can't say it was a new standard,when biggie was the guy to take over. Not only did he take over. Nas flopped and took to a bad boy formula to finally become a star. Puff and biggie were laying the blueprint. Nas and jay followed

I don't got all day for trolls.If you don't have a statement or a counter position just admit defeat. Asking me questions is just your way of trying to stumble into something.

1. You tell me. If you don't know just say so.

2. Again, You got all the answers so you tell me. If you don't know just say so.

3. This is were you have to admit you don't know about this era. Rakim was on the decline in the early 90's.All the 80's MC rappers tried to reinvent themselves or went the Hip-Hop purist route like KRS-ONE. This time period is one that most people don't understand, that's why guys like you can't wrap you head around Illmatic. This is a separate discussion. Everything else needs to be cleared up before I go further.

4. I have not clue what you are trying to saying to be honest. I hope #3 answers this.

5. Nation wide? This is early 90's Hip-Hop. Everything was East or West. Nothing else was in the equation during this time.

Also keep in mind Nas' single dropped in '92 so everyone got a taste of what was coming.
All this badboy/Biggie stuff ties into #3. If you are cool on 1,2,4,5 I'll answer #3 in full.

 

[Tom Foolery]

Kool G before Illmatic



Kool G after Illmatic


Name a rapper that I ain't influence.

 

[bigbadbossup2012]

1. So you're saying rappers were 1/2 things,lol yeaaaaaa
When you say old rappers like (Rakim, BDK, De la soul, ATCQ Public Enemy etc.) werent cutting it anymore,what exactly do you mean? What were they failing to do?

2.The east needed something to combat the west coast,why? What was the west coast doing that needed to be countered?

3. Illmatic was far from perfect. Perfect album with high praise and regular video rotation, dont flop like that. All that he was doing had been done before by rakim,no?
What was Nas doing on illmatic that Rakim wasn't already doing?
As far as shifting styles,the year illmatic dropped we still had stylish rappers coming out and outselling him. Old dirty went gold in half the time Nas did,in the same era. Method was outselling him. Other stylish artist like Da brat,coolio, outkast and Bone destroyed him too. So what shift?

4.Nas WAS JUST A not quite as positive Rakim. That's all he had in 1994.


5. No one was arguing how much east coast took to it,we said it meant little on a national scale. Which is true.

You can't say it was a new standard,when biggie was the guy to take over. Not only did he take over. Nas flopped and took to a bad boy formula to finally become a star. Puff and biggie were laying the blueprint. Nas and jay followed

I don't got all day for trolls.If you don't have a statement or a counter position just admit defeat. Asking me questions is just your way of trying to stumble into something.

1. You tell me. If you don't know just say so.

2. Again, You got all the answers so you tell me. If you don't know just say so.

3. This is were you have to admit you don't know about this era. Rakim was on the decline in the early 90's.All the 80's MC rappers tried to reinvent themselves or went the Hip-Hop purist route like KRS-ONE. This time period is one that most people don't understand, that's why guys like you can't wrap you head around Illmatic. This is a separate discussion. Everything else needs to be cleared up before I go further.

4. I have not clue what you are trying to saying to be honest. I hope #3 answers this.

5. Nation wide? This is early 90's Hip-Hop. Everything was East or West. Nothing else was in the equation during this time.

Also keep in mind Nas' single dropped in '92 so everyone got a taste of what was coming.
All this badboy/Biggie stuff ties into #3. If you are cool on 1,2,4,5 I'll answer #3 in full.

your name suits you well.
You obviously know you're blowing smoke. I accept all forms of white flags

 

[Tom Foolery]

your name suits you well.
You obviously know you're blowing smoke. I accept all forms of white flags

Go ahead call my bluff.