Future - "Reasonable Doubt was not hot when it dropped"

[hex]

Illmatic's impact is greatly exaggerated. It was much hyped in ny but outside of the tri-state area nobody really gave a fukk. I'm from the south and only the real hip hop heads even knew about illmatic when it first came out. Every day regular dudes didn't give a fukk about Nas until I ruled the world with Lauryn. The same logic cats are using to question illmatic' impact is the same logic that cats are using to question RD. if you aren't defending RD from cats talking that ignorant shyt like future then don't defend illmatic either. There are plenty of rappers who got more shine than nas in '94. Big, wu, snoop, cube, bone thugs, ect all were bigger than nas with albums out that got more play than illmatic.

As I already said:

Jay sold a similar amount but didn't influence anyone. Nas sold a similar amount and everyone from Above The Law to BONE has talked about how impactful "Illmatic" was. There's levels to this shyt.

Fred.

You can't compare "Illmatic" and "RD" for that reason alone.

Fred.

 

[mobbinfms]

Go ahead call my bluff.

 

[bigbadbossup2012]

As I already said:



You can't compare "Illmatic" and "RD" for that reason alone.

Fred.

That shyt means nothing. When illmatic was out,bone was shyttin on nas in the streets and at retail. nikkas doing an interview showing love proves nothing. In 1994 them nikkas wasnt talking about and never have sounded anyhting like nas

 

[bigbadbossup2012]

Go ahead call my bluff.

What do you mean. I asked fro clarity on your statements,you fell back and refused to do so cause you know it wont end well. Ok,i respect you falling back. You dont want it

 

[Tom Foolery]

What do you mean. I asked fro clarity on your statements,you fell back and refused to do so cause you know it wont end well. Ok,i respect you falling back. You dont want it

I'll ask again.

If you are cool on 1,2,4,5 I'll answer #3 in full.

So are you good with 1, 2, 4 and 5. If not what needs to be clarified.

 

[bigbadbossup2012]

I'll ask again.


So are you good with 1, 2, 4 and 5. If not what needs to be clarified.

1. So you're saying rappers were 1/2 things,lol yeaaaaaa
When you say old rappers like (Rakim, BDK, De la soul, ATCQ Public Enemy etc.) werent cutting it anymore,what exactly do you mean? What were they failing to do?

2.The east needed something to combat the west coast,why? What was the west coast doing that needed to be countered?

3. Illmatic was far from perfect. Perfect album with high praise and regular video rotation, dont flop like that. All that he was doing had been done before by rakim,no?
What was Nas doing on illmatic that Rakim wasn't already doing?
As far as shifting styles,the year illmatic dropped we still had stylish rappers coming out and outselling him. Old dirty went gold in half the time Nas did,in the same era. Method was outselling him. Other stylish artist like Da brat,coolio, outkast and Bone destroyed him too. So what shift?

4.Nas WAS JUST A not quite as positive Rakim. That's all he had in 1994.


5. No one was arguing how much east coast took to it,we said it meant little on a national scale. Which is true.

You can't say it was a new standard,when biggie was the guy to take over. Not only did he take over. Nas flopped and took to a bad boy formula to finally become a star. Puff and biggie were laying the blueprint. Nas and jay followed

 

[hex]

Elaborate because I don't understand which part is bs lol

You said it took "Illmaitc" 7 years to go plat. You have no way of knowing that because the certification date is when the RIAA certified it, not when it shipped that amount.

People act like an album ships 500k and the RIAA has a bell that goes off. You gotta pay for a whole auditing process. You don't pay = your album is never certified. You pay late = that's when your album is certified. Like I said earlier in the thread, you ship 500k in '92 and don't pay for the certification until 2002 it's gonna look like it took you 10 years to go gold. That shyt is wildly inaccurate for the type of point you're trying to make.

Fred.

 

[Inspect Her Deck]

You said it took "Illmaitc" 7 years to go plat. You have no way of knowing that because the certification date is when the RIAA certified it, not when it shipped that amount.

People act like an album ships 500k and the RIAA has a bell that goes off. You gotta pay for a whole auditing process. You don't pay = your album is never certified. You pay late = that's when your album is certified. Like I said earlier in the thread, you ship 500k in '92 and don't pay for the certification until 2002 it's gonna look like it took you 10 years to go gold. That shyt is wildly inaccurate for the type of point you're trying to make.

Fred.

ah thanks for clarifying breh

but now I sound dumb because I was being sarcastic in any case


it still took time I'd imagine....longer than most, no?

 

[GoFlipAPack]

Wrong. It was hot when it dropped. It wasn't a considered a classic when it dropped.

 

[hex]

ah thanks for clarifying breh

but now I sound dumb because I was being sarcastic in any case


it still took time I'd imagine....longer than most, no?

There's no way to know. I'm not saying the info is impossible to track down but you'd have to have Soundscan data for every month on or around the time it came out. RIAA dates are notoriously inaccurate for the reasons I outlined.

Fred.

 

[MalikX]

FACTS! I'm a East Coast nikka too. Born in 88. When I was a little nikka, I remembered hearing If I Ruled the World, One More Chance and Mo Money Mo Problems everywhere. Mase's songs too. I knew who Nas, Biggie, Ice Cube and TuPac was from my big brother. I knew who Lauryn Hill/Fugees, Mary J. Blige, Brandy, Aaliyah and Mariah Carey was from my sisters. Jay-Z didn't seep into my consiousness until Hard Knock Life/Can I Get A and then he felt like the biggest rapper out around the time Big Pimpin came out. But 95, 96....I didn't see his shyt on The Box or BET. I remember being like 14 and obsessed with the Blueprint Album and the Streets is Watching DVD...........THEN...........that's when I went back and researched and found Reasonable Doubt. That was 2001, 2002. So for me....Future is right. And my brother was 10 years older than me so he was like 18, 19 in 1996 and I don't remember him or my older cousins saying not a word about Jigga. Jay became one of the biggest rappers out from 98-2002 so people was saying RD was a classic when he didn't become a mega star until a few years later.

 

[bigbadbossup2012]

You said it took "Illmaitc" 7 years to go plat. You have no way of knowing that because the certification date is when the RIAA certified it, not when it shipped that amount.

People act like an album ships 500k and the RIAA has a bell that goes off. You gotta pay for a whole auditing process. You don't pay = your album is never certified. You pay late = that's when your album is certified. Like I said earlier in the thread, you ship 500k in '92 and don't pay for the certification until 2002 it's gonna look like it took you 10 years to go gold. That shyt is wildly inaccurate for the type of point you're trying to make.

Fred.

nikkas will come up with anything to avoid the fact that Nas flopped.
First it was a big bootleg crisis,now it's "hey we dont really know cause certification process blah blah"
Let's say you're right about certification process,
Columbia
paid for
10 different gold/plat/multi-plat certifications for nas between Illmatic's release and it finally going platinum.
So I guess your wisdom would lead you to believe they were slacking on Illmatic,lmao
I love when people whom think they're smart are blatantly intellectually disingenuous. It shows how little they believe in the bullshyt they're implying

 

[MalikX]

I do remember hearing "Ain't No nikka" in the summertime, that funk/jazz beat was hard to miss but, it paled in comparison to how much Pac, Nas, Biggie and Snoop were being played.

 

[MalikX]

nikkas will come up with anything to avoid the fact that Nas flopped.
First it was a big bootleg crisis,now it's "hey we dont really know cause certification process blah blah"
Let's say you're right about certification process,
Columbia
paid for
10 different gold/plat/multi-plat certifications for nas between Illmatic's release and it finally going platinum.
So I guess your wisdom would lead you to believe they were slacking on Illmatic,lmao
I love when people whom think they're smart are blatantly intellectually disingenuous. It shows how little they believe in the bullshyt they're implying

Nas said it on one of those VH1 shows....I think My Diary or something like that. Illmatic only sold 17,000 copies either in the entire year of 1994 or that was his first week numbers. I'd have to find the video where he said it to be sure. But he said that he felt like he had made it even with that little bit of albums sold Then he blew through his bread and saw he was still in the projects, so Steve Stoute and the label made sure It Was Written was more commercial with bigger singles and it went double platinum. Illmatic was a commercial flop at the time but, it was so critically acclaimed people didn't realize it. Plus, it was bootlegged so hard in the hood, people probably didn't notice it didn't actually sell anything.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Let's start.

You had 2 type of rappers, The MC and the Conscious rapper. The old rappers (Rakim, BDK, De la soul, ATCQ Public Enemy etc. ) who fall under these categories are not cutting it anymore.

The east needs something new to combat against the West Coast. This began the quick flow/tongue twister style (das efx, Lords of the Underground, Naughty by Nature, Even Jay-z started out like this etc). This pushed the whole gritty NY/East Coast style. Tough grimy beats, hard lyrics, complex rhyming/flow. Though popular, it was too distinct and started to getting old after a few years. The style wasn't natural and was off putting to some, especially to you people outside of the east.

Enter Illmatic. It was perfect. Nas took the artistry of the MC, the mindset of the Conscious rapper and the hardcore style of the tongue twister, but left out the over the top flow. This laid the groundwork for everybody. Don't believe me, Go listen to Onyx-Slam or NBN-Hip Hop Hooray and ask yourself "Why don't we rap like this anymore?". Nas killed the 3 styles and merged them into one, that's why.

Was Illmatic a commercial success? No, but guaranteed if you a rapper on the east this was your study guide/your bible/your new standard. This is what make it a classic, it changed the way his mentors, peers and students looked at rapping.

This is why Nas can say "Name a rapper that I ain't influence?" and never get checked for it. Because it's true.

Anyone in this thread discrediting Illmatic is not a true hip-hop fan. You are a poser that needs to do your history or just stick to Eminem.

100% facts!!!!!!!!