Future - "Reasonable Doubt was not hot when it dropped"

[Hostile]

"The top 5 of all time"?

I didn't hear Ghost's name mentioned.

 

[Still Benefited]

Dude i made you bow down and backtrack on multiple stances. I leaned you back. How dare you talk to your Pa in such a way.

See my friends,this is how you shyt on weak posters. This dude that was so adamant about Nas changing the game with Illmatic has NOW went back on a couple of his stances.
First it was "He changed the game from nikkas biting the west"
Now it's "he changed the game from stagnation to active"
First "people were doing alot of biting before Illmatic"
Now "the biting was from 1994 to 1996"
Which is during and after illmatic.
And this proves illmatic did nothing you said it did.
Your stagnation argument is Null too. Dont come around anymore
This debate is over you a fukkin clown and should stop debating nikkas whom really lived it.

Its like Pac said we couldve been screaming checkmate about 10 pages ago.

Let a couple nikkas try to play stupid to the point it got embarrasing,watched nikkas back track,turn hypocrite,pretend they didnt understand common slang...Gravity came in later broke it down step by step in the same fashion i did,and nikkas still played dumb....accused us of making up our own arguments,when we making the same argument Future made in the op that started this thread.

I know I didnt do any of these things,what about you?

My argument has been firm and consistent,receipts provided,counted all regions?

How you feel about RD breh,u think its a classic?

 

[Art Barr]

On first listen and view,.....
It is some self exposal and some exposal of facts there.



Art Barr

 

[bigbadbossup2012]

Its like Pac said we couldve been screaming checkmate about 10 pages ago.

Let a couple nikkas try to play stupid to the point it got embarrasing,watched nikkas back track,turn hypocrite,pretend they didnt understand common slang...Gravity came in later broke it down step by step in the same fashion i did,and nikkas still played dumb....accused us of making up our own arguments,when we making the same argument Future made in the op that started this thread.

I know I didnt do any of these things,what about you?

My argument has been firm and consistent,receipts provided,counted all regions?

How you feel about RD breh,u think its a classic?

Do I think RD is a classic? Not really. I heavily fukk with it.
I see the appeal. I definitely dont think of it when i reflect back on 1996 and I dont think it's Hov's best work at all.
If Hov didnt blow up and talk it up,no one would be saying it.

 

[Stack Money]

the fuk you talking aboutHow many receipts do I need to post for yall to get it through your thick skulls?

You ain't post no receipts just cause you call them that doesn't make it true, meanwhile we've posted actual receipts that you ignorin.

If we bein real Jay was more influential wit Reasonable Doubt than Nas was wit Illmatic, nikkas always talk about Mafioso Rap and how Nas was one of the pioneers and act like Jay was some biter but Jay established the official sound of the sub genre wit that album. Before Jay nikkas was rappin bout doin "Mafia" shyt movin bricks and killin nikkas but it was more from the standpoint of a goon or someone lower on the totem pole over regular beats wit a grimy NY sound, Cuban Linx sounded like every other Wu album it just had that Gambino concept and Rae himself said it was based on nikkas startin from the bottom and workin they way up.

But once Reasonable Doubt dropped it had a polished upper class sound wit Jazz samples rappin more so about bein a boss at the top of the organization suited up sippin champagne on yachts ridin in limos bein at fancy parties and blowin money which became the sound and content of future Mafioso Rap songs/albums, basically every other Mafioso Rap joint from G Rap to Nas to Wu to pre Life After Death Biggie was music for the D boys/hustlas and killas. "Mafioso Rap" at that point was really just the NY/East Coast version of Gangsta Rap, Reasonable Doubt and every Mafioso Rap joint after it was music for bosses away from the everyday action in they penthouse suite callin the shots and ballas chillin in upscale lounges.

Since yall like "receipts" go take a look at that thread,might be alone in here,but wasnt alone in there with nikkas calling nonsense,unless the opinions of peers mean nothing,but obvious bias journalist do.
A QUESTION FOR THE OLD HEADS.....DID ILLMATIC REALLY HAVE AS MUCH OF AN IMPACT AS PEOPLE SAY.....


Far as the second coming of Rakim,nikkas thought Adrien Broner was the second coming of mayweather too for a hot second.....i alreay broke down how Rakim did what Nas COULDNT and DIDNT with Illmatic...he ended up fulfilling his prophecy later on,partially we can thank Jay for getting him back on the right track

Illmatic definitley failed to make the impact Rakim and Paid In full did,in a era where hiphop didnt even have as much reach.

Nas was a failure his first album,makes for an interesting journey he's had in his career....all that second coming talk means nothing when it was nikkas beating him out in his own city for lyricist of the year,imagine that happening to Rakim?plus a nikka from the west who wasnt as lyrical was still the most anticipated emcee of the time that EVERYBODY wanted to hear RAP...cant take that from Snoop,nikkas loved his style

:kobesalute:THAT'S the thread I was talkin bout when I said this -

I remember cats on here a while back agreein that Illmatic wasn't "hot" when it first dropped and got more recognition and sales over time but now yall sayin Jay was so irrelevant while Nas was "hot" out the gate.

You CANNOT be a Pac fan and disrespect Nas

That shyt dont make any sense

Pac himself disrespected Nas

 

[Still Benefited]

Do I think RD is a classic? Not really. I heavily fukk with it.
I see the appeal. I definitely dont think of it when i reflect back on 1996 and I dont think it's Hov's best work at all.
If Hov didnt blow up and talk it up,no one would be saying it.

I think its a classic,i hate i had to even question if i too had been brainwashed at one point....but i realized its alot of albums ive been told Im supposed to like and dont....so im confident im pretty bulletproof as far as being brainwashed into liking something....Jay is just a different breed of east coast emcee,you not gon find to many east coast rappers as slick as Jay,who spit that game,who spit that player shyt like early Jay did.

 

[bigbadbossup2012]

I think its a classic,i hate i had to even question if i too had been brainwashed at one point....but i realized its alot of albums ive been told Im supposed to like and dont....so im confident im pretty bulletproof as far as being brainwashed into liking something....Jay is just a different breed of east coast emcee,you not gon find to many east coast rappers as slick as Jay,who spit that game,who spit that player shyt like early Jay did.

I dig that. I just dont think it can match some of my top albums like AEOM,MATW,Doggystyle,Biggie's albums,death certificate,
True Masterpieces to me
But all classics arent created equal so i can see it being one,not a goat level album to me though

 

[spliz]

Dude i made you bow down and backtrack on multiple stances. I leaned you back. How dare you talk to your Pa in such a way.

See my friends,this is how you shyt on weak posters. This dude that was so adamant about Nas changing the game with Illmatic has NOW went back on a couple of his stances.
First it was "He changed the game from nikkas biting the west"
Now it's "he changed the game from stagnation to active"
First "people were doing alot of biting before Illmatic"
Now "the biting was from 1994 to 1996"
Which is during and after illmatic.
And this proves illmatic did nothing you said it did.
Your stagnation argument is Null too. Dont come around anymore
This debate is over you a fukkin clown and should stop debating nikkas whom really lived it.

the shameless lies u tell. Only reason I could think why is cause

 

[Ayo]

shyt was knocking in Boston (of all places) when it first came out.

Maybe not hot in Atlanta or other places where hip hop didn't really matter at that time.

 

[bigbadbossup2012]

Dude i made you bow down and backtrack on multiple stances. I leaned you back. How dare you talk to your Pa in such a way.

See my friends,this is how you shyt on weak posters. This dude that was so adamant about Nas changing the game with Illmatic has NOW went back on a couple of his stances.
First it was "He changed the game from nikkas biting the west"
Now it's "he changed the game from stagnation to active"
First "people were doing alot of biting before Illmatic"
Now "the biting was from 1994 to 1996"
Which is during and after illmatic.
And this proves illmatic did nothing you said it did.
Your stagnation argument is Null too. Dont come around anymore
This debate is over you a fukkin clown and should stop debating nikkas whom really lived it.

the shameless lies u tell. Only reason I could think why is cause

No point in lying when the facts are all right there

Son but thats just ur specific experience. U ask someone like @Art Barr who is from Chicago and the hype was real for him. Ask @hex who's from Kansas City i believe and he felt it. U may not have known Nas if u was a casual fan or someone who didnt really give a fukk what was goin on in NY but if u paid attention to hip hop u knew who Nas was.
And as far as what changed? All of it. Even NY artists started biting the west coast sound and Wu was the first in line to bring it back and do something original that was representing us and actually getting attention for it. Nas came thru and the momentum was building. From an emcee standpoint he was getting hailed as the next Rskim and dropped a crazy album. Then Biggie came thru and sealed the deal. NY had its identity again. From sound to commercial appeal. It all worked hand in hand and Nas was one of the contributors.

@spliz
This Is Two Years Before illmatic
Lord Finesse Return of the Funky Man
Boogie Down Productions Sex and Violence
Fu-Schnickens F.U. Don't Take It Personal
Ultramagnetic MCs Funk Your Head Up
Das EFX Dead Serious
Doug E. Fresh Doin' What I Gotta Do
Gang Starr Daily Operation
Pete Rock & CL Smooth Mecca and the Soul Brother
Eric B. & Rakim Don't Sweat the Technique
EPMD Business Never Personal
Diamond D Stunts, Blunts & Hip Hop
Showbiz & A.G. Runaway Slave
Redman Whut? Thee Album
Grand Puba Reel to Reel
Kool G Rap & DJ Polo Live and Let Die



This is the year before illmatic

Heavy D & the Boyz Blue Funk
Brand Nubian In God We Trust
Digable Planets Reachin' (A New Refutation of Time and Space)
Naughty by Nature 19 Naughty III
LL Cool J 14 Shots to the Dome
Lords of the Underground Here Come the Lords
Onyx Bacdafucup
Mobb Deep Juvenile Hell
Run-D.M.C. Down with the King
Masta Ace Incorporated SlaughtaHouse
Guru Guru's Jazzmatazz, Vol. 1
The Roots Organix
Biz Markie All Samples Cleared!
MC Lyte Ain't No Other
Fat Joe Represent
Poor Righteous Teachers Black Business
De La Soul Buhloone Mindstate
KRS-One Return of the Boom Bap
Leaders of the New School T.I.M.E. (The Inner Mind's Eye)
Black Moon Enta da Stage
Erick Sermon No Pressure
A Tribe Called Quest Midnight Marauders
Wu-Tang Clan Enter the Wu-Tang (36 Chambers)
Das EFX Straight Up Sewaside
Queen Latifah Black Reign

This is The year illmatic came out

Schoolly D Welcome to America
Gang Starr Hard to Earn
Kool G Rap Killer Kuts
The Roots From the Ground Up
Nas Illmatic
Shyheim AKA the Rugged Child
Jeru the Damaja The Sun Rises in the East
Gravediggaz 6 Feet Deep
Public Enemy Muse Sick-n-Hour Mess Age
Big Daddy Kane Daddy's Home
Rob Base and DJ E-Z Rock Break of Dawn
PMD Shade Business
Digable Planets Blowout Comb
O.C. Word...Life
Kool Moe Dee Interlude
Pete Rock & CL Smooth The Main Ingredient
Method Man Tical
Redman Dare Iz a Darkside
Slick Rick Behind Bars
Black Sheep Non-Fiction

So how many were sounding like west coast?[/QUOTE]

U forgot to mention Illmatic was circulating in 93. And look at the list before 93. That def wasn't ALL the shyt that dropped but compare that list to the 93 list when nikkas like Wu and Nas and Black Moon and Onyx and Tribe. I didn't say Nas was the SOLE reason shyt shifted but Nas was one of the TOP contributors of the shift. There was Def artist's that tried biting and shyt was starting to get stagnant as well. I will say looking back at the albums it was more of that latter. It was stagnation and we got a surge in 93 and took it from there. Now that I think about it it was more people biting the west coast around the 94-96 era than anything. Track's like Where My Homiez which is my shyt and Masta Aces INC Ride was clear west coast bites. Masta Ace was kinda shameless wit his shyt. Lol

 

[Gravity]

As I already said:



You can't compare "Illmatic" and "RD" for that reason alone.

Fred.

This is why you Nas cocksuckers are the worst. You're so insecure and passive aggressive. It's like saying that both RD and illmatic are great classic albums that were initially slept on outside of the east coast isn't good enough. As if just saying that you like nas/illmatic better than Jay/RD isn't good enough. Nah nas fanboys have to convince people that nas being better is a fact You say that Jay didn't influence anyone but according to dudes actually in the know Jay is the one who influenced Big to stop writing

So Jay didn't influence anyone except the kony at the time Nas and Kobe have the worst internet fan bases ever and it's because y'all run off of emotion. It's an especially bad look when you realize that most of you are pushing 40.

 

[spliz]

No point in lying when the facts are all right there


@spliz
This Is Two Years Before illmatic
Lord Finesse Return of the Funky Man
Boogie Down Productions Sex and Violence
Fu-Schnickens F.U. Don't Take It Personal
Ultramagnetic MCs Funk Your Head Up
Das EFX Dead Serious
Doug E. Fresh Doin' What I Gotta Do
Gang Starr Daily Operation
Pete Rock & CL Smooth Mecca and the Soul Brother
Eric B. & Rakim Don't Sweat the Technique
EPMD Business Never Personal
Diamond D Stunts, Blunts & Hip Hop
Showbiz & A.G. Runaway Slave
Redman Whut? Thee Album
Grand Puba Reel to Reel
Kool G Rap & DJ Polo Live and Let Die



This is the year before illmatic

Heavy D & the Boyz Blue Funk
Brand Nubian In God We Trust
Digable Planets Reachin' (A New Refutation of Time and Space)
Naughty by Nature 19 Naughty III
LL Cool J 14 Shots to the Dome
Lords of the Underground Here Come the Lords
Onyx Bacdafucup
Mobb Deep Juvenile Hell
Run-D.M.C. Down with the King
Masta Ace Incorporated SlaughtaHouse
Guru Guru's Jazzmatazz, Vol. 1
The Roots Organix
Biz Markie All Samples Cleared!
MC Lyte Ain't No Other
Fat Joe Represent
Poor Righteous Teachers Black Business
De La Soul Buhloone Mindstate
KRS-One Return of the Boom Bap
Leaders of the New School T.I.M.E. (The Inner Mind's Eye)
Black Moon Enta da Stage
Erick Sermon No Pressure
A Tribe Called Quest Midnight Marauders
Wu-Tang Clan Enter the Wu-Tang (36 Chambers)
Das EFX Straight Up Sewaside
Queen Latifah Black Reign

This is The year illmatic came out

Schoolly D Welcome to America
Gang Starr Hard to Earn
Kool G Rap Killer Kuts
The Roots From the Ground Up
Nas Illmatic
Shyheim AKA the Rugged Child
Jeru the Damaja The Sun Rises in the East
Gravediggaz 6 Feet Deep
Public Enemy Muse Sick-n-Hour Mess Age
Big Daddy Kane Daddy's Home
Rob Base and DJ E-Z Rock Break of Dawn
PMD Shade Business
Digable Planets Blowout Comb
O.C. Word...Life
Kool Moe Dee Interlude
Pete Rock & CL Smooth The Main Ingredient
Method Man Tical
Redman Dare Iz a Darkside
Slick Rick Behind Bars
Black Sheep Non-Fiction

So how many were sounding like west coast?

[/QUOTE]
Don't see where I backtracked or agreed with u. I said it was more of the game being stagnant than flat out biting west coast. But there WAS biting involved. Thematically especially. And the game DEFINITELY was stagnant. But u can't see the forest from the trees. Cause .

 

[Stack Money]

As I already said:

Jay sold a similar amount but didn't influence anyone.

You can't compare "Illmatic" and "RD" for that reason alone.

Fred.

If we bein real Jay was more influential wit Reasonable Doubt than Nas was wit Illmatic, nikkas always talk about Mafioso Rap and how Nas was one of the pioneers and act like Jay was some biter but Jay established the official sound of the sub genre wit that album. Before Jay nikkas was rappin bout doin "Mafia" shyt movin bricks and killin nikkas but it was more from the standpoint of a goon or someone lower on the totem pole over regular beats wit a grimy NY sound, Cuban Linx sounded like every other Wu album it just had that Gambino concept and Rae himself said it was based on nikkas startin from the bottom and workin they way up.

But once Reasonable Doubt dropped it had a polished upper class sound wit Jazz samples rappin more so about bein a boss at the top of the organization suited up sippin champagne on yachts ridin in limos bein at fancy parties and blowin money which became the sound and content of future Mafioso Rap songs/albums, basically every other Mafioso Rap joint from G Rap to Nas to Wu to pre Life After Death Biggie was music for the D boys/hustlas and killas. "Mafioso Rap" at that point was really just the NY/East Coast version of Gangsta Rap, Reasonable Doubt and every Mafioso Rap joint after it was music for bosses away from the everyday action in they penthouse suite callin the shots and ballas chillin in upscale lounges.

 

[bigbadbossup2012]

shyt was knocking in Boston (of all places) when it first came out.

Maybe not hot in Atlanta or other places where hip hop didn't really matter at that time.

Hiphop mattered across the country waaaaaaaaaay before illmatic came out

 

[bigbadbossup2012]

Don't see where I backtracked or agreed with u. I said it was more of the game being stagnant than flat out biting west coast. But there WAS biting involved. Thematically especially. And the game DEFINITELY was stagnant. But u can't see the forest from the trees. Cause .

If you paint the narrative that east coast was biting the west and nas came through and cleaned it up,
THEN you change to "well actually it was more biting etc afterwards" then you conceded that nas didnt change peope from biting the west and in fact there was more biting going on during and after illmatic's initial run.
I raised you better than this son.