Gun Control vs Black Community

[Supper]

How Australia All But Ended Gun Violence

This doesn't at all address any of the points raised, but I'll retort just for shyts and giggles just because I've already been through this tired talking point.

Will Brazil, long having some of the strictest gun control in the world and one of the highest murder rates, finally liberalize its gun laws? - Crime Prevention Research Center

which allows the Federal Police to analyze the given reasons for owning a gun, under which "self defense" is not considered a valid reason because there are allegedly sufficient public police officers to maintain nationwide security.

Thus, disarmament is effectively happening in Brazil, as are massive gun confiscations, notwithstanding its refusal by Brazilian people (at the referendum of 2005). Some argue that this will increase gun homicides. Other research shows that there is a decrease in firearm deaths correlating with disarmament. However, 2012 marked the highest rate of gun deaths in 35 years for Brazil 8 years after a ban to carry handguns in public went in to effect.

Gun laws in Brazil - Wikipedia

The facts on the ground tell a very different story. Between 2010 and 2014, at least 39,150 firearms were seized in Rio de Janeiro. According to military and civil police records, 3,989 firearms were collected in the first five months of 2015. Of these, roughly 80% were handguns. Just 223, or 5%, of all the collected weapons consisted of semiautomatic rifles and machine guns.

From Rio de Janeiro to Sao Paulo, revolvers and pistols are most commonly used in crime - over 90% of all reported gun-related incidents according to the civil police. What is more, about two thirds of all seized guns were previously legally registered to civilian owners, highlighting the murky continuum linking the legal and black markets.

Brazil's Gun Violence Problem Is 'Made in Brazil' | HuffPost

All people did when the ban went into effect in that country was sell their guns off to criminals for a high price and that's not even considering the amount of illegal weapons that enter Brazil from other countries.

And before you try to say that I can't compare our fellow continentians of the Americas, in Brazil, to the US, because of socio-economic reasons, you should know that the same disparity applies in a comparison of the US to Australia, seeing as it has a vastly superior justice system(lower incarceration and recidivism rate), public health care(including mental), public education, wealth distribution, housing systems, employment rates, and public social safety nets and the US falls way short on those categories on all fronts, ESPECIALLY if you're talking about the black community in the US.
The US has a lot of money, but it does not look like a developed country
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/uk/06/prisons/html/nn2page1.stm
Recidivism rates

 

[null]

This doesn't at all address any of the points raised, but I'll retort just for shyts and giggles just because I've already been through this tired talking point.

Will Brazil, long having some of the strictest gun control in the world and one of the highest murder rates, finally liberalize its gun laws? - Crime Prevention Research Center


Gun laws in Brazil - Wikipedia


Brazil's Gun Violence Problem Is 'Made in Brazil' | HuffPost

All people did when the ban went into effect in that country was sell their guns off to criminals for a high price and that's not even considering the amount of illegal weapons that enter Brazil from other countries.

And before you try to say that I can't compare our fellow continentians of the Americas, in Brazil, to the US, because of socio-economic reasons, you should know that the same disparity applies in a comparison of the US to Australia, seeing as it has a vastly superior justice system(lower incarceration and recidivism rate), public health care(including mental), public education, wealth distribution, housing systems, employment rates, and public social safety nets to the US falls way short on those categories on all fronts, ESPECIALLY if you're talking about the black community in the US.
The US has a lot of money, but it does not look like a developed country
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/uk/06/prisons/html/nn2page1.stm
http://www.businessinsider.com/why-norways-prison-system-is-so-successful-2014-12(recidivism)

Countries with fewer guns (in general) have fewer guns deaths. That's general universal.
If rationality prevails (i.e. MAD applies) why not give everyone personal nukes? We don't because we know there are madmen out there and the collateral damage would be too much. So along the same line reduce the number and capability of guns over time is the only solution. Or you can keep killing each other while wondering why.
The way the economy and demographics are going there will be plenty more to see.

 

[Supper]

Guns don't just magically appear on the streets. Lax gun laws are the reason people have access to the guns. Better laws and aggressive pursuit of existing laws would go a long way to reducing gun violence.

Less guns on the street, less people get shot. Simple math.

Then why does my state(TX) which has way more guns and gun owners per captia have a much lower black homicide rate than your state?

Why does your state with the tightest gun controls in the nation in the top ten for highest black homicide rates?

Why is it only the black homicide rate that's so high in your state, in comparison to the general homicide rate in that state?

It's obvious that this issue comes down to socio-economic, systematic racism, and cultural dysfunctions than gun law leniency.

 

[Supper]

Countries with fewer guns (in general) have fewer guns deaths. That's general universal.

You obviously aren't basing this claim off of any statistical evidence.

btw....It looks even worse if you include non-OECD countries.
https://crimeresearch.org/wp-conten...hot-2014-03-31-at-Monday-March-31-3.17-AM.png

If rationality prevails (i.e. MAD applies) why not give everyone personal nukes? We don't because we know there are madmen out there and the collateral damage would be too much. So along the same line reduce the number and capability of guns over time is the only solution. Or you can keep killing each other while wondering why.
The way the economy and demographics are going there will be plenty more to see.

FYI......... strawmaning about crew manned, mass destructive, and/or indiscriminate area weapons like nukes, tanks, artillery, explosives and even machine guns that obviously have little to no use for personal self defense being banned for civilians, does nothing for your case about why individual, precise, discriminant weapons such as guns should be banned or restricted for civilian use for self-defense as they're clearly not in the same class as the former, whatsoever.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

Then why does my state(TX) which has way more guns and gun owners per captia have a much lower black homicide rate than your state?

First where are you getting your numbers from?

Second it doesn't make sense to compare numbers by state. Living situations, demographics, economics vary from city to city, let alone by state.

A better comparison would be taking two cities of similar size, demographics, and economics and comparing them.

Why does your state with the tightest gun controls in the nation in the top ten highest black homicide rates?

What is my state?

Gun laws by state mean nothing when people can just drive a couple miles and buy whatever they want. For any gun control to work it has to be countrywide

Why is it only the black homicide rate that's so high in your state, in comparison to the general homicide rate in that state?

Again what state are you talking about?

But in any state the ratio of poor black people is higher than whites, therefore it makes sense that there would be more black violence by ratio.

It's obvious that this issue comes down to socio-economic, systematic racism, and cultural dysfunctions than gun leniency.

It's obvious you need a gun to shoot someone. If you don't have a gun you can't shoot. Less guns on the street, less people getting shot.

 

[WaveCapsByOscorp™]

I'm speaking with about the general discussion surrounding the issue that I've seen from black gun control advocates, not you, otherwise I would've addressed you specifically in the OP, and not "black gun control advocates".




Which I never did. In fact, in the OP I made sure to specify that the issue of the homicide rate in the black community had to do with much more complex issues of socio-economic marginalization, racism, and inequality than how strict or loose gun laws are.





Yeah, lets try the entire black congressional caucus.
Black caucus demands gun control vote after shootings

But, if you concede that there's not any tangible benefit of more gun control that you can point out for the black community, then I guess that answers the question at hand.

You keep tying in race and gun control, just because the black caucus talks gun control doesn’t make it a solely black issue and that’s where you’re mistaken.

It’s one thing to ask black people where they stand, but then to discuss the topic like only the laws effect black people is a misdirection and mistake.

You’re flip flopping too, one second you want to talk laws then your saying the stats that have occurred happened because of bigger factors than gun laws. If you feel that way, why are we even talking about gun control and the black community?

As far as what’s needed in the black community, I made that clear my first post. Now we’re talking in circles but I assume you understood me

 

[Supper]

@MeachTheMonster You're from LA California, aren't you, hench "tha land" in your avatar?

California has a way higher black homicide rate with far fewer gun owners & guns per capita, and a much stricter gun laws than Texas.

California is unique in that it has a pretty low overall homicide rate compared to other states, but an abnormally high black homicide rate when compared to other states. Unlike Louisiana, which has a high black homicide rate, but an overall high general homicide rate, as well. And Mississiippi, which has a high general homicide rate, yet a lower than average black homicide rate.

For any gun control to work it has to be countrywide

Brazil, and countless of our other neighbors in the Americas prove that not to be true. In fact, it's had the opposite affect.

 

[ViShawn]

i'd be more interested in TRAINING the black community about weapons, self-defense, etc. than worrying about how gun laws effect the community. a good amount of time, minorities are left out of the discussion on laws and most of discussions on law all boils down to money, who's owed what and who's gonna get fukked over. most people having fights over gun control laws don't care so much about the community, they're concerned about what's going to happen to THEM.

Totally agreed. I'm not fukking co-signing any gun control given American history.

 

[Supper]

You keep tying in race and gun control.

Yes, to have a discussion to further establish what exactly is our collective interest is in the matter, separate from other communities who also may or may not have collective interest in the matter, as well(I never questioned whether it was a 'solely' black issue. I'm not interested if it's also a hispanic or white issue as well).

I define black issues as those that DISPROPORTIONATELY affects us. But even still, I wasn't even asking that in the OP. I was simply asking if there was any benefit, whatsoever, no matter how proportionate, to the black community. Totally simple question, warrants a simple answer.

just because the black caucus talks gun control doesn’t make it a solely black issue and that’s where you’re mistaken.

Yeah, except the CBC doesn't just 'talk gun control' they openly and actively advocate for more gun control. They're on record for stating they want a ban on 'assault weapons'. And as an organization that was founded for the specific purpose of representing the interest of the black community in congress, I am more than justified in questioning what EXACTLY our interest is in the matter.

It’s one thing to ask black people where they stand, but then to discuss the topic like only the laws effect black people is a misdirection and mistake.

No, if I wanted to know how individual black people personally feel about it, I'd just go check out and engage in any of the other threads on the subject. I'm not attempting to deflect from that or how gun control affect americans in general, thus why I made my own thread instead of derailing those threads with these points.

I made this thread specifically for the purpose of questioning what is the collective interest of the black community on the issue. So, in that light, how have I misdirected from the purpose of my own thread? Anything that turns attention or contention away from that which has been set in the OP is the misdirection, which is what you appear to being doing.

If you aren't interested in a discussion of how gun control works in the interest of the black community, then feel free to make a thread and analyze it from another more general or more specific perspective of your choice. Simple.

You’re flip flopping too, one second you want to talk laws then your saying the stats that have occurred happened because of bigger factors than gun laws. If you feel that way, why are we even talking about gun control and the black community?

Yeah, I'm QUESTIONING what exactly our interest is in these proposed laws, as I don't see any SIGNIFICANT benefit to the black community, and maybe even a slight detriment considering the grass roots armed community groups that do good work in the community.

As far as what’s needed in the black community, I made that clear my first post. Now we’re talking in circles but I assume you understood me

That's fine and well, but doesn't at all answer the question posed in the OP, which is the purpose of this thread.

 

[Supper]

Just to further highlight the African-American heritage of armed resistance to WS, which I feel should also be taken into consideration.

Some examples of individual black men who used their guns to take the fight directly to white supremacist on their own:

Joe Pullen
Joe Pullen: The Toughest Brother you Never Heard of - Daddy's Gun

Eddie Noel
The Time of Eddie Noel by Allie Povall

Co Chinn
Guns and the Southern Freedom Struggle: What's Missing When We Teach About Nonviolence | HuffPost

How armed black people WON the race war in Washington DC 1919's red summer.
Washington, D.C. Race Riot (1919) | The Black Past: Remembered and Reclaimed

@JahFocus CS @Diasporan Royalty

 

[Ghost Utmost]

The schema that you operate within contains guns as a necessary part.

In a scenario where guns are being introduced by the millions

You need to keep up

But what if the source of guns was shut down?

Sure. It would take a loooonngg time for all the current guns to break. But that would be the ONLY way. Stop making guns and let the old guns bleed out of the system.

Far fetched, I know

But arming every man woman and child with 2 guns apiece is not the way forward

 

[Behind-the-wheel]

I'm all for "Gun Control"...meaning Black People controlling their guns.

All of these shootings taking place are a white people problem, honestly. And the govt of this country can't do a damn thing about the gun problem because the same inbred murderous gun-loving jackhole cacs that are doing the killing and rallying around the guns...are the same ones the politicians wooed and used to get them in office.

The govt is fukked yo...they literally CAN'T fix this problem they created...unless they wanna be out a job!

 

[Behind-the-wheel]

Check out this shyt. Just straight ignorance, save for the last guy.

Wtf are you talking about, The NRA is a racist organization. It's been verified.
Where tf you at?

 

[Supper]

What do/would you say to all of the currently active black grass roots activist groups with boots on the ground that do armed open/conceal carry patrols their communities looking our for innocent women, children, and elderly people in our community to keep them safe from violent crime, act as a front line barrier from WS being able to march through our community unchecked, and provide armed security for peaceful protest around the country(Yes, I can give examples of all of these if need be)?

Armed Men Shut Down East Oak Cliff Gas Station, Police Make No Arrests

Armed Men Shut Down East Oak Cliff Gas Station, Police Make No Arrests​

​

Dallas brothers shut down a gas station after a clerk points a gun at a black couple.

​

 

[NoChillJones]

This thread makes no sense. It is saying that gun control is pointless because blacks don't use the guns that would be banned? Isn't the main issue that so many black are killing each other with gun period? Is OP saying he is okay with those murders as long as the gun nuts can keep their guns?