How come cacs didnt hijack jazz like they did rock n roll??

[IllmaticDelta]

i'll entertain this; they did. what they did was put it in universities and made it a scholarly, collegiate pursuit. most of the "critically acclaimed" modern jazz musicians have passed thru the university system at one time or another even if they didn't graduate. more importantly, it became "intellectual" music or it was intellectualized. what i mean by that is that they came up with musical based theories about the sounds and ideas behind jazz and sucked the soul out of it. that's not to say the players themselves don't have soul, but it's no longer an art form based on feeling. instead, you have to know your mixolydian, phrygians, dorian scales, whole tone, pentatonics, hexatonics, triad pairings, etc. otherwise, those who've come out of the university are unlikely to recognize you as such an artist. i use to think i played jazz. nowadays, i just consider myself a musician. i wouldn't want to be lumped in with all that shyt...

To be honest, they didn't do that. It was black jazz musicians of the Bebop era.





With bebop, jazz shifted to the paradigm still in place today: a subcultural art music played primarily by small combos in a jam-session format, favoring solo improvisation and aimed at a specialized market of aficionados. This chapter explores the racial landscape that helped create bebop, as well as the roles of centrifugal forces that pull musicians out of swing bands and centripetal forces that pull them into small-group settings in New York. We see how the musical elements of bebop take shape in the early 1940s in places like Minton's Playhouse, and focus on the musical contributions of its main figures, Charlie Parker and Dizzy Gillespie. We also learn about pianist/composer Thelonious Monk and the creation of a new generation of bebop musicians (Max Roach, Bud Powell). Finally, we situate bebop within the broader picture of American music, showing not only how its jam-session format leads to later jazz, but also the implications of its separation from popular song and new types of popular music (early rhythm and blues and rock and roll).

1. Bebop
   1. Bop is a turning away from jazz as a popular music, part of the mainstream of American culture, to a music that is isolated, non-danceable, played by small combos to a small audience in a virtuosic style that is difficult to grasp (mid-1940s).
   2. There are two ways to see this change: one is that bebop was revolutionary, something apart from the jazz that preceded it; the second is that bebop is evolutionary, part of the jazz tradition that made it into an art music. We begin with the evolutionary approach.
2. Bebop and Jam Sessions
   1. Swing musicians started work in the evening and continued to play after their regular gig (engagement) at jam sessions, which were relaxing, on the one hand, in their informality, but, on the other hand, work-like in their competitiveness.
   2. Musicians kept inexperienced players off the bandstand by playing tunes at ridiculously fast tempos in an unfamiliar key. Standards like "I Got Rhythm" were reharmonized with difficult chord substitutions.
   3. Bebop musicians were continually tested and experimented with fast tempos and complicated harmonies.

http://www.wwnorton.com/college/music/jazz/ch/11/outline.aspx

 

[IllmaticDelta]

This thread is weird to me I remember a time (The funk/soul era) when Jazz was considered 'your grandparents music' and most young black people wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole

The funny thing about that is the Funk was loaded with jazzisms

 

[WaveCapsByOscorp™]

To be honest, they didn't do that. It was black jazz musicians of the Bebop era.





With bebop, jazz shifted to the paradigm still in place today: a subcultural art music played primarily by small combos in a jam-session format, favoring solo improvisation and aimed at a specialized market of aficionados. This chapter explores the racial landscape that helped create bebop, as well as the roles of centrifugal forces that pull musicians out of swing bands and centripetal forces that pull them into small-group settings in New York. We see how the musical elements of bebop take shape in the early 1940s in places like Minton's Playhouse, and focus on the musical contributions of its main figures, Charlie Parker and Dizzy Gillespie. We also learn about pianist/composer Thelonious Monk and the creation of a new generation of bebop musicians (Max Roach, Bud Powell). Finally, we situate bebop within the broader picture of American music, showing not only how its jam-session format leads to later jazz, but also the implications of its separation from popular song and new types of popular music (early rhythm and blues and rock and roll).

1. Bebop
   1. Bop is a turning away from jazz as a popular music, part of the mainstream of American culture, to a music that is isolated, non-danceable, played by small combos to a small audience in a virtuosic style that is difficult to grasp (mid-1940s).
   2. There are two ways to see this change: one is that bebop was revolutionary, something apart from the jazz that preceded it; the second is that bebop is evolutionary, part of the jazz tradition that made it into an art music. We begin with the evolutionary approach.
2. Bebop and Jam Sessions
   1. Swing musicians started work in the evening and continued to play after their regular gig (engagement) at jam sessions, which were relaxing, on the one hand, in their informality, but, on the other hand, work-like in their competitiveness.
   2. Musicians kept inexperienced players off the bandstand by playing tunes at ridiculously fast tempos in an unfamiliar key. Standards like "I Got Rhythm" were reharmonized with difficult chord substitutions.
   3. Bebop musicians were continually tested and experimented with fast tempos and complicated harmonies.

http://www.wwnorton.com/college/music/jazz/ch/11/outline.aspx

bebop is one style of jazz, not jazz as a whole. you can't just be pulling quotes from sites, i've been playing and studying this shyt for years. try again.

 

[J-Nice]

When I was a working musician, whites made up the bulk of the audience at my gigs. There were blacks mixed in here and there, but they were mainly the 40 and up crowd. Outside of going to festivals in the south, the bulk of festivals I've been to have had a predominantly white audience. And in some cases, it would be so few blacks there, that I would get stares on some "what is he doing here " type steez, as if my people didn't create this artform


I am glad seeing more young blacks take an interest in jazz though. I've started to see more of them at concerts, and my younger cousins all listen to Jazz and two of them are currently learning the sax and trumpet. But the sad reality of the situation is that the establishment is run by whites. But this isn't anything new. Whites have been monetizing blacks for centuries in this country.

But I can't lie though. Bill Evans is one of my favorite musicians of all time.


EDIT: Montreux Jazz festival is this week for my European brehs

 

[EndDomination]

They did hijack jazz.
And reggae.
The most popular, and wealthiest artists from both are White.

 

[HopeKillCure]

Cacs threw all their support behind Kenny G.

 

[HopeKillCure]

They did hijack jazz.
And reggae.
The most popular, and wealthiest artists from both are White.

Who???

 

[IllmaticDelta]

bebop is one style of jazz, not jazz as a whole. you can't just be pulling quotes from sites, i've been playing and studying this shyt for years. try again.

The point you're missing is tha that Bebop is the starting of "Modern" Jazz and when Jazz started getting intellectualized in a almost Classical sense. This is when Jazz became high culture/art music. There's no way anyone can deny this. Bebop is the style where everyone was a virtuoso with the long solos. Bebop laid the foundation for jazz chops vocab for ever style that came after.

 

[feelosofer]

Let's be honest whites didn't hijack jazz, even though it was an artform created by Blacks, a lot of working musicians and composers in the Harlem Renaissance era moving forward were white and Blacks after the early 90's kinda moved on from Jazz. I mean you kind of a brief dalliance in the early 2000's but I have produced, coordinated or filmed maybe 100+ jazz festivals in the past 20+ years and the crowds get older and whiter.

 

[live it to the limit]

Because it doesn't make as much money

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Because it doesn't make as much money

Big Band Swing was the most commercial music in America until early Rythm and Blues and then Rock and Roll officially knocked it out.

“ There was a time, from 1935–1946, when teenagers and young adults danced to jazz-orientated bands. When jazz orchestras dominated pop charts and when influential clarinettists were household names. This was the swing era. ”
—Scott Yanow, Du Noyer, Paul (2003)

The swing era (also frequently referred to as the "big band era") was the period of time (around 1935–1946) when big band swing music was the most popular music in the United States. Though this was its most popular period, the music had actually been around since the late 1920s and early 1930s, being played by black bands led by such artists as Duke Ellington, Jimmie Lunceford, Bennie Moten, Cab Calloway, and Fletcher Henderson, and white bands from the 1920s led by the likes of Russ Morgan and Isham Jones. The era's beginning is sometimes dated from “the King of Swing” Benny Goodman's performance at the Palomar Ballroom in Los Angeles on August 21, 1935, bringing the music to the rest of the country. 1930s also became the era of other great soloists: the tenor saxists Coleman Hawkins and Chu Berry; the alto saxists Benny Carter and Johnny Hodges; the drummers Gene Krupa, Cozy Cole and Sid Catlett; the pianists Fats Waller and Teddy Wilson; the trumpeters Roy Eldridge, Bunny Berigan, and Rex Stewart.[1]

Music experimentation has always been popular in America. The many avenues of black, white, Latin, American, and European music influences merged when Swing arrived. In 1932, early in the jazz, and the sweet music styles of the American music scene - they worked on new, often unheard-of musical arrangements that were emphasized toward a more polished song with a bounce. Recordings by Isham Jones, the popular jazz/blues bandleader, and his orchestra which sometimes included Benny Goodman recorded for RCA Victor. The swing era also was precipitated by spicing up familiar commercial, popular material with a Harlem oriented flavor and selling it via a white band for a white musical/commercial audience.[2] In Benny Goodman’s band, the most diversified styles, the most diversified styles flowed together: some New Orleans tradition, through Fletcher Henderson, who arranged for the band; the riff technique of Kansas City; and that white precision and training through which this brand of jazz lost much in vitality. On the other hand, the easy melodic quality and clean intonation of Goodman’s band made it possible to “sell” jazz to a mass audience.[3]

The jazz/blues era brought to swing music Louis Armstrong, Billy Holiday, and by 1938 Ella Fitzgerald. Other musicians who rose during this time include Jimmy Dorsey, his brother Tommy Dorsey, Glenn Miller, Count Basie, Goodman's future rival Artie Shaw, and Woody Herman who departed the Isham Jones band in 1936 to start his own band. Several factors led to the demise of the swing era: the recording ban from August 1942 to November 1944 (The union that most jazz musicians belong to told its members not to record until the record companies agreed to pay them each time their music was played on the radio), the earlier ban of ASCAP songs from radio stations, World War II which made it harder for bands to travel around as well as the "cabaret tax", which was as high as 30%, the change in music taste and the rise of bebop. Though Ellington and Basie were able to keep their bands together (the latter did briefly downsize his band; from 1950–1952), by the end of 1946, most of their competitors were forced to disband, bringing the swing era to a close.

...you had the "Jazz Ages" and roaring 20's right before that

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Jazz ages








Swing era



@ 1:33 end of the Swing era, beginning of the intellectualized bebop era

 

[Mowgli]

They did it's called lite jazz.

Kenny g

 

[live it to the limit]

Big Band Swing was the most commercial music in America until early Rythm and Blues and then Rock and Roll officially knocked it out.

“ There was a time, from 1935–1946, when teenagers and young adults danced to jazz-orientated bands. When jazz orchestras dominated pop charts and when influential clarinettists were household names. This was the swing era. ”
—Scott Yanow, Du Noyer, Paul (2003)














...you had the "Jazz Ages" and roaring 20's right before that

I was speaking in terms of longtime and current revenues not actual talent When's the last time a jazz musician sold out a stadium?

 

[IllmaticDelta]

I was speaking in terms of longtime and current revenues not actual talent When's the last time a jazz musician sold out a stadium?

The OP asked "how come white never tried to hijack jazz like they did Rock". The answer is, they did try (you do realize that jazz is an over 100 year old genre?). You're talking in more recent times about Jazz's popularity. Jazz was the top commercial music from the 1920-1950's until R&B/Rock N Roll fully took over. When jazz was more popular the artists made more money in that genre than any other. Even in the 1960's when Rock and Soul were in full effect, Jazz was still popular and people like Brubeck, Miles Davis and Coltrane were like pop icons.