HOW in the hell was Pac better than Nas at rapping?

[intilectual recipricol]

The flow is dope on that song. I've never heard it before. Honestly though, I can't understand half of what he's saying.

He's sacrificing substance for style. I can hear everything that Nas is saying on Illmatic. Its the perfect marriage of flow and substance (Jay on RD is the same to me - flows just perfect).

I understand it though. and substance isnt sacrificed at all... his substance is literally EXACTLY that of BIG.

Now I just be
On the front porch wit a torch ready to scorch
Two women peepin me cuz frequently I'm gone
In the zone they havin thoughts of freakin me
Keepin me company bumpin me for the frequency im on
They can see I'm a cool muhfukka kickin it pele'd out
wit a kango on my waves n fade
Peanut butter complexion two silly full sessions
two phillies a fifty sack got some reefers and a razor blade
Like a game of Spades, cut the bullshyt
These days was made for me to wise up till we major paid
Women freakin me greedy lickin me doin body graffiti
Throwin they panties up on the stage, are you up on the age
of players in the Chi, Twista and Do Or Die
You and I could relate cause I'm the love that you've been thinkin of
The style of flow is a vocal calico
To show you with the mic I be speakin love, what's the words, we can uh
Go to my crib, no need to bring a mask and glock
Try not to pass the block, gettin more high than an astronaut
Sippin After Shock
I ball cuz of CWAL and Rap-a-Lot
Let's get party in a crafty spot
Plenty Henny for my crew and I ain't even broke up half a knot
Keep on holdin me while I roll a B we can smoke or ride
And you can play with me to keep the passion hot
Don't you know how the money flow

So, considering thats what I'm accustomed to, hearin illmatic is not impressive AT ALL on the flow. Not that its bad, I just consider it average. The lyrics are nothing spectacular either... typical crack sells, random violence, "street reporting"

it just is typical shyt with less style.

 

[Still Benefited]

Albums are the go-to criterion b/c for nearly the entire history of hip-hop that has been the standard body of work. If rappers only released singles - then you'd have an argument.

What if schmut if. If Pac couldn't maintain a high level of lyricism on a single album - that most likely means he wasn't capable of doing it - otherwise - why wouldn't have have done it?

It's not that I'm ducking your challenge - I just think its a waste of time that doesn't demonstrate anything.

Anywho - out of the albums he released up to 7DT - which one was as technically complex as Illmatic?

He has plenty songs that are proof he can be technically complex so it doesn't make sense to say he's not capable.....you think maybe it just wasn't Pacs aim as a artist to be the best lyricist,I dont see Scarface get the same knock as Pac gets,Face makes great music how he makes great music and is arguable top 5......leads me to believe Pac nasayers obviously see Pac could be technically great,but put the knoc on him just bcuz he didn't show that all the time....well what if like Scarface he wuznt trying to be the "technical rapper"...doesn't make him incapable,artist just don't have the same approach when it comes to music...it actually proves Pac is more well rounded of a emcee than Nas,what could Nas do that Pac can't....we've proven Pac can be as technical on ACCIDENT damn near....u think dude who penned 7th day theory in 3 days couldn't throw sum more unnecesary multis in his songs where they didn't belong if he took an extra 3 days to write it just too make nerds feel better abouut itso they could say "my god this is technical"

 

[mobbinfms]

I understand it though. and substance isnt sacrificed at all... his substance is literally EXACTLY that of BIG.

Now I just be
On the front porch wit a torch ready to scorch
Two women peepin me cuz frequently I'm gone
In the zone they havin thoughts of freakin me
Keepin me company bumpin me for the frequency im on
They can see I'm a cool muhfukka kickin it pele'd out
wit a kango on my waves n fade
Peanut butter complexion two silly full sessions
two phillies a fifty sack got some reefers and a razor blade
Like a game of Spades, cut the bullshyt
These days was made for me to wise up till we major paid
Women freakin me greedy lickin me doin body graffiti
Throwin they panties up on the stage, are you up on the age
of players in the Chi, Twista and Do Or Die
You and I could relate cause I'm the love that you've been thinkin of
The style of flow is a vocal calico
To show you with the mic I be speakin love, what's the words, we can uh
Go to my crib, no need to bring a mask and glock
Try not to pass the block, gettin more high than an astronaut
Sippin After Shock
I ball cuz of CWAL and Rap-a-Lot
Let's get party in a crafty spot
Plenty Henny for my crew and I ain't even broke up half a knot
Keep on holdin me while I roll a B we can smoke or ride
And you can play with me to keep the passion hot
Don't you know how the money flow

So, considering thats what I'm accustomed to, hearin illmatic is not impressive AT ALL on the flow. Not that its bad, I just consider it average. The lyrics are nothing spectacular either... typical crack sells, random violence, "street reporting"

it just is typical shyt with less style.

You misunderstand. When I say substance is sacrificed - I mean he's flowing so fast that he becomes unintelligible and you literally can't understand the words. The substance (the actual words that he's saying) is being sacrificed to the style (rhyming fast). I'm not talking about the content at all.

And if you can understand it more power to you. But you can understand how that's a huge issue for me? Not being able to hear the words. Especially if we're talking lyrics. Now...don't get me wrong - that shyt sounded amazing.

 

[ISO]

Who else was spitting like Nas pre 1994? Before the two REsurrections dropped? 1993 and before.

Yup. Just look at Jay Pre-Illmatic.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSgeidV4LSY][HQ] Jay-Z - I Can't Get Wit That - YouTube[/ame]
New York was dominated by alternative/jazz acts like A Tribe Called Quest and De La Soul.

 

[mobbinfms]

He has plenty songs that are proof he can be technically complex so it doesn't make sense to say he's not capable.....you think maybe it just wasn't Pacs aim as a artist to be the best lyricist,I dont see Scarface get the same knock as Pac gets,Face makes great music how he makes great music and is arguable top 5......leads me to believe Pac nasayers obviously see Pac could be technically great,but put the knoc on him just bcuz he didn't show that all the time....well what if like Scarface he wuznt trying to be the "technical rapper"...doesn't make him incapable,artist just don't have the same approach when it comes to music...it actually proves Pac is more well rounded of a emcee than Nas,what could Nas do that Pac can't....we've proven Pac can be as technical on ACCIDENT damn near....u think dude who penned 7th day theory in 3 days couldn't throw sum more unnecesary multis in his songs where they didn't belong if he took an extra 3 days to write it just too make nerds feel better abouut itso they could say "my god this is technical"

I agree with what your saying - and Face gets the same knock. So does Cube. Theyre not lyrical miracle rappers. Still all legends.

When i say he's not capable - that means capable of sustaining it over the course of an album.

Although - technical complexity isn't "nerd" shyt - its one of the basic building blocks of hip-hop. Imagine if everyone was still rhyming like Run DMC in the 80s?

 

[mobbinfms]

Yup. Just look at Jay Pre-Illmatic.
[HQ] Jay-Z - I Can't Get Wit That - YouTube
New York was dominated by alternative/jazz acts like A Tribe Called Quest and De La Soul.

"back when BIG and Mack dropped/and Illmatic rocked"

The album was hugely influential.

Although I love that style that Jay had pre RD. I love all the crazy bouncy shyt rappers were doing around that time.

 

[the rhyme king]

I agree with what your saying - and Face gets the same knock. So does Cube. Theyre not lyrical miracle rappers. Still all legends.

When i say he's not capable - that means capable of sustaining it over the course of an album.

Although - technical complexity isn't "nerd" shyt - its one of the basic building blocks of hip-hop. Imagine if everyone was still rhyming like Run DMC in the 80s?

even run dmc had multis in ther bars so idk what u talking about rhyming like run dmc in the 80's

 

[mobbinfms]

even run dmc had multis in ther bars so idk what u talking about rhyming like run dmc in the 80's

Thanks Rhyme King!

 

[intilectual recipricol]

Who else was spitting like Nas pre 1994? Before the two REsurrections dropped? 1993 and before.

Does "Keep Your Head Up" (1993) sound like Run DMC? (Pac)
Does "It Was A Good Day" (1992) sound like Run DMC? (Cube)
Does "Diary of a Madman" (1991) sound like Run DMC? (Face)
Does "Players Ball" (1994 the week after illmatic) sound like Run DMC? (Kast)
Does "Da Bomb" (1993) sound like Run DMC? (Kris Kross)

like I said, naS gets credit for shyt that niccaz was already doin.

 

[mobbinfms]

Does "Keep Your Head Up" (1993) sound like Run DMC? (Pac)
Does "It Was A Good Day" (1992) sound like Run DMC? (Cube)
Does "Diary of a Madman" (1991) sound like Run DMC? (Face)
Does "Players Ball" (1994 the week after illmatic) sound like Run DMC? (Kast)
Does "Da Bomb" (1993) sound like Run DMC? (Kris Kross)

like I said, naS gets credit for shyt that niccaz was already doin.

Easy playboy! You know damn well that aint what I meant. I didn't even come close to saying that!!

Rakim had already advanced beyond all of them in 1987.

Nas was more technically complex then everyone you mentioned. Although Dre would give him a run for his money later on.

Still - all but Kriss Kross are legends.

Kriss Kross

 

[the rhyme king]

Thanks Rhyme King!

wow mobbinfms just gave me thanks i officaly have a live now

 

[mobbinfms]

wow mobbinfms just gave me thanks i officaly have a live now

You had a life before. You are the multi master.

 

[intilectual recipricol]

Easy playboy! You know damn well that aint what I meant. I didn't even come close to saying that!!

Rakim had already advanced beyond all of them in 1987.

Nas was more technically complex then everyone you mentioned. Although Dre would give him a run for his money later on.

Still - all but Kriss Kross are legends.

Kriss Kross

Dont dis the Kris's they had hits... hell Ive heard "Jump" in a club RECENTLY.

But most importantly they launched the career of Da Brat



her flow was better than naS in 94 with internal rhymes, better beats, and went gold in one month, platinum in 6 months.

For all we know, Da Brat changed rap.

 

[MooseMouthMthafuga]

Woulda Coulda Shoulda. All we can judge is what he recorded.

I'm just showing how prolific Pac was with his pen game.


What took Nas 2 years to create, Pac did it in 3 days.


Not only that, many would argue he crafted his songs with more substance than Nas could ever dream of.

It comes to a point where it goes beyond the music and becomes more about the person.


The nikka that Nas projects himself to be in his music, Pac was that.


The people Nas read books about, Pac grew up with those people close quarterly.All that "intelligent black revolutionary" shyt, Pac was born into that element.He had a more intimate knowledge of that shyt than a Nas or even a KRS.What he understood at 13, Nas didn't get until he was 30 or some shyt.

You don't believe me, just do a google search on Afeni Shakur, Lumumba Shakur, Assata Shakur,and Mutulu Shakur.These are the people who helped mold the mind of a young Pac.

Pac didn't have to read it out a book to "gain knowledge".He experienced it first hand.You know what they say..Experience is the best teacher.Couple that with the lessons/ game his mom's was feeding into him...COTDAMN!!He was the very essence of that shyt.That's what nikkaz tend to overlook about Pac.



He was the real life manifestation of the nikka Nas dreams of being in his songs

 

[Still Benefited]

I agree with what your saying - and Face gets the same knock. So does Cube. Theyre not lyrical miracle rappers. Still all legends.

When i say he's not capable - that means capable of sustaining it over the course of an album.

Although - technical complexity isn't "nerd" shyt - its one of the basic building blocks of hip-hop. Imagine if everyone was still rhyming like Run DMC in the 80s?

But you can't say he wuznt capable if he wuznt trying to do it over the course of an album.....it can just mean he wuznt trying to do it over the course of an album lol....that's not who he is as an artist,he's not trying to flex how technical he can be.

And hiphop has expanded outside the east coast,technical complexity is probaly the most meaningless building block and as hiphop expanded outside of NY other regions proved that....I like a lyrical display as much as the next man but Crooked I can rap with and at his best rap circles around Nas but end of the day that's nice but meaningless in the grand scheme..

[ame=http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k6V6m7sOcts]Murda Mase 1993 shyt (Rare) FIRE!!!! - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aKfIESaVBfw]Triangle Offense (Joe Budden & Fabolous & Paul Cain) - Some nikkaz - YouTube[/ame]

That "technical" shyt is a building block for just about ANY east coast rapper since Rakim/Kool G Rap....all the clue tapes I use to own 90% of them could beast technically,that shyts just not that impressive to me depending on who's doin it,technical for the sake of technical is as big of a set back of hiphop as u may consider it a building block....technically quite a few nikkas can do what Nas did,and Nas really didn't do much Kool G rap hadn't already done from a technical level.....nikkas in here talkin about @inteelectualrecipricol is downplayin Nas when really I see a lot of his fans doing that.....by holding his technical lyricism up as if that's what puts him in goat convos....nah dude is actually a great artist when motivated and has managed to have great songs in his catalogue.....he just ain't fukin with Pac or Cube in that regard...you'll always have guyz like Skillz who downplay Pac who care about nuthing but the technical aspect but what can I say I think his opinion is stupid and problay why he can't make songs people wanna hear more than once a year


[ame=http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CuddXE6xFH0]Skillz presents... Hip-Hop Confessions ep. 2.2: Nottz & Joe Budden - YouTube[/ame]