1-8-7-Skillz
Superstar
Push
How serious is ghostwriting in HipHop ?
- Thread starter 1-8-7-Skillz
- Start date
could carless..if it jams it jams
Because before he got exposed they champion'd him as some type of creative genius who was giving us songs with soft ass lyrics straight from his heart
Now that he's a known fraud they change up the narrative
and if every rapper got ghosts why only Drake got reference tracks
i don't see no Nas or Hov reference tracks
Renegade47
Superstar
jay elect did not write for nas he just produced the track. young chris did not write for hov. hov just took his flow. Wale whack ass never wrote for ross.
stop being an idiot
The reality of it is that most fans can't fathom the illusion that their favorite Rapper have had entire verses if not entire Songs penned for them... whether from one of their crew members or a paid Ghostwriter from the label.
You'll see fans grade on the curve saying things like "borrowing a line or two" or "just the chorus" because they believe their favorite artist is above it seeing as hip hop was built on poetic expression & merely rehearsing someone else's written verses would dampen the image of some "Legends" when in truth nearly every commercial release has had verses fully written for artists that didn't come from the artist in rap music.
It's a business... those dudes in the entourage that never release projects aren't there in vain.
Nowadays the younger fans just don't care... so it's gotten less hidden due to the apathy of the current music buyers.
But it's always been like his... the Drake situation is just the first introduction to a darker truth that's existed for decades similar to these Cop killings that have always happened but are just now being witnessed. The realities have always been there... it's just now there's easier access to seeing it.
You'll see fans grade on the curve saying things like "borrowing a line or two" or "just the chorus" because they believe their favorite artist is above it seeing as hip hop was built on poetic expression & merely rehearsing someone else's written verses would dampen the image of some "Legends" when in truth nearly every commercial release has had verses fully written for artists that didn't come from the artist in rap music.
It's a business... those dudes in the entourage that never release projects aren't there in vain.
Nowadays the younger fans just don't care... so it's gotten less hidden due to the apathy of the current music buyers.
But it's always been like his... the Drake situation is just the first introduction to a darker truth that's existed for decades similar to these Cop killings that have always happened but are just now being witnessed. The realities have always been there... it's just now there's easier access to seeing it.
1-8-7-Skillz
Superstar
Ineresting interview on the topic. Was surprised that Krondon actually penned "Criminal Set" for X
Ghostwriting has never been accepted by true emcees...
And also ghoswriting doesn't mean pitchin' ideas, gettin' feedback from your crew, fellow rappers or the producer in the studio...
Ghostwriting = someone else writing whole verses or whole songs for you.
if you've ever recorded a rap song you know your friends or whoever you rap with is gonna give you feedback on making your verse or song better since you will be asking them if the verse is good or not and vice-versa... not ghostwriting
Or if you a famous rapper, and ya crew raps too, but they not famous they'll sure be wanting to give you ill lines to include in your verses, songs, etc... not ghostwriting
Rap groups are famous for having someone write most of the material for the whole group, another one for producing, or managing the group, but all of them will be on the songs rapping... so in this case there is ghostwriting, but it isn't judged as hard since all the other members of the group play a part in the creative process, whether its production, mixing, or pitchin' ideas or concepts for the songs. Also these other members will be known in the hip hop community for what they actually do: producing, djing, etc.
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Im pretty sure a lot of these rappers once they become millionaires and start bein' busier because of the new schedules, pressure from the label, may resort to ghostwriting, or if they feel uninspired or whatever reason, they may resort to doin' this every once in a while....
You also have the famous Dr. Dre and P. Diddy who prolly havent wrote a song in their entire life, but have whole albums by themselves but everyone has known forever their job is different and they're both producers.
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Now DRAKE... is something really different. I have no idea if he has ever written or not, but this nikka not only has people write for him, but also give him reference tracks, showing him the cadence, the flow, the pauses, everything... which is really surprising.
Only thing he has to do is memorize the verse and lay his vocals down and thats it... This nikka woulda been crucified back in the 90s early 00s... But since hip hop is so pop right now and he's the biggest artist in the music industry, hes still number one on the charts..
I do listen to some <Drake songs but I'll never respect him as an emcee, the way I respect Nas, jay-z, 2pac, biggie, scarface, eminem.
And also ghoswriting doesn't mean pitchin' ideas, gettin' feedback from your crew, fellow rappers or the producer in the studio...
Ghostwriting = someone else writing whole verses or whole songs for you.
if you've ever recorded a rap song you know your friends or whoever you rap with is gonna give you feedback on making your verse or song better since you will be asking them if the verse is good or not and vice-versa... not ghostwriting
Or if you a famous rapper, and ya crew raps too, but they not famous they'll sure be wanting to give you ill lines to include in your verses, songs, etc... not ghostwriting
Rap groups are famous for having someone write most of the material for the whole group, another one for producing, or managing the group, but all of them will be on the songs rapping... so in this case there is ghostwriting, but it isn't judged as hard since all the other members of the group play a part in the creative process, whether its production, mixing, or pitchin' ideas or concepts for the songs. Also these other members will be known in the hip hop community for what they actually do: producing, djing, etc.
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Im pretty sure a lot of these rappers once they become millionaires and start bein' busier because of the new schedules, pressure from the label, may resort to ghostwriting, or if they feel uninspired or whatever reason, they may resort to doin' this every once in a while....
You also have the famous Dr. Dre and P. Diddy who prolly havent wrote a song in their entire life, but have whole albums by themselves but everyone has known forever their job is different and they're both producers.
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Now DRAKE... is something really different. I have no idea if he has ever written or not, but this nikka not only has people write for him, but also give him reference tracks, showing him the cadence, the flow, the pauses, everything... which is really surprising.
Only thing he has to do is memorize the verse and lay his vocals down and thats it... This nikka woulda been crucified back in the 90s early 00s... But since hip hop is so pop right now and he's the biggest artist in the music industry, hes still number one on the charts..
I do listen to some <Drake songs but I'll never respect him as an emcee, the way I respect Nas, jay-z, 2pac, biggie, scarface, eminem.
1-8-7-Skillz
Superstar
Ive seen dudes that didnt know shyt about hip hop bein blown away by the fact that dres songs like g thang, dre day etc. were actually written by Snoop, same with still d.r.e coming from jay and so on...
But just like you said, Dre never even claimed to be something like the best mc or sumthin and has always openly said that he's a producer who just happens to rap
I be peeping you from the sideline
I gotta say something, now; cuz now it's okay to admit Drake had a writer (funny you mention Weeknd instead of Miller) when you can add in a bunch of speculation from other artist.
You ain't slick.
We got receipts on Aubrey, breh.
Just say you don't care about all this "culture" talk and stick to that.
I don't think you're wrong for that, either.
You make a decent argument, but, it exist to wrap in a way to protect Drake's artistic legacy.
Like you posted; "what the hell is rap supremacy"
Son is another far and away the most popular and successful rapper, today. Let people live if they don't like his music (for whateva reason).
I love how people in here who are not in the industry or really don't know shyt about the inner workings are trying to speak on this like they have actual knowledge besides what they perceive... I'm not saying it is normal or it isn't but this thread and its replies are moot if you're someone who's never been around the shyt.
And since this thread isn't even really about ghostwriting but about Drake, let me just say you can't give the benefit of doubt to Drake when there's reference tracks released online of his work. And it doesn't make it any less worse if you try to say its a "regular thing" that "all rappers do" (even though somehow mysteriously nobody else's reference tracks have ever leaked before nor any solid rumors of ghostwriting allegations besides for the rappers we know don't write all their stuff). The way I see it is at the end of the day if your best and most personal verses are your own but your club records and singles and the odd flow or hook or couple lines aren't, I'm fine with it. But like I said, none of us will ever know what goes on in a studio room besides the artists themselves so its pointless to discuss this and make radical claims like fukking Nas and Jay have rapped ghostwritten verses so that vindicates Drake
And since this thread isn't even really about ghostwriting but about Drake, let me just say you can't give the benefit of doubt to Drake when there's reference tracks released online of his work. And it doesn't make it any less worse if you try to say its a "regular thing" that "all rappers do" (even though somehow mysteriously nobody else's reference tracks have ever leaked before nor any solid rumors of ghostwriting allegations besides for the rappers we know don't write all their stuff). The way I see it is at the end of the day if your best and most personal verses are your own but your club records and singles and the odd flow or hook or couple lines aren't, I'm fine with it. But like I said, none of us will ever know what goes on in a studio room besides the artists themselves so its pointless to discuss this and make radical claims like fukking Nas and Jay have rapped ghostwritten verses so that vindicates Drake
The Devil's Advocate
Call me Dad
i'm going to need to some proof of all these names you just dropped
there's a huge difference tho in the game
and yes we would talk about it cause we was talking about puff... dre... and then nas when dead prez wrote on "******".... and game when 50 was saying he wrote his hits.. biggie having reference tracks for kim
.... etc etc etc
but the difference is... is someone in there saying "yo it'd sound better like this.... yo i got an opening for you... you check out this hook i wrote... nah this song should really be about....."
that's what's ok and perfectly fine.... 50 having a song, a hook and saying to game, write 3 verses on it.... ain't really ghostwriting or having a writing pool
now what drake, dre, puff, kim was doing was opening up an email... having an ENTIRE SONG fully done.... then taking that and spitting it right back.
that shyt ain't respected or allowed... i'd be ok with jay and nas sitting down to write a song together, but then only jay spits it... cool... friends do that a lot when broke... i wouldn't expect change with 10-20 rappers and producers in a studio working on a few tracks
but if nas handed jay a complete song and jay just copied it word for word... yea.... that shyt would be looked down on
ehh, My post dont have an agenda.I be peeping you from the sideline
I gotta say something, now; cuz now it's okay to admit Drake had a writer (funny you mention Weeknd instead of Miller) when you can add in a bunch of speculation from other artist.
You ain't slick.
We got receipts on Aubrey, breh.
Just say you don't care about all this "culture" talk and stick to that.
I don't think you're wrong for that, either.
You make a decent argument, but, it exist to wrap in a way to protect Drake's artistic legacy.
Like you posted; "what the hell is rap supremacy"
Son is another far and away the most popular and successful rapper, today. Let people live if they don't like his music (for whateva reason).
I asked what is rap supremacy from the standpoint of this thread.
That is something fans care about( and when I say fans I mean hiphop heads who take rap too seriously)
Jay said it best " I rather be overpaid than underrated"
I dont think rappers are in the booth rapping to prove that are the top rapper in the game... its just subject that can be used in records.
Ghostwriting has been in hip hop for decades
But that reference track shyt is something new for me personally
But that reference track shyt is something new for me personally