If Tim Duncan Wins a 6th Ring This Year, Will We Finally Admit.....

[Malta]

Tim Duncan was supporting cast for half of his titles. fukk no.

More finals MVP's than ya mans

 

[malbaker86]

He dominated with his performances relative to Tim's. It's just like people will say Tim is greater than Shaq alltime, but nobody would pick Tim over Shaq in their primes. Prime Shaq shyts on the nikka. Tim & Karl Malone are the kings of being very good for a long time. But a prime Barkley is better than a prime Malone and just like mad players are better than a prime Tim.

Tim use to go head to head with Shaq in their primes. Shaq never dominated TD and vice versa. They would ALWAYS cancel each other out.

 

[VBM]

yep

said it way better than me.

I just threw the oop. you dunked it. OWW.

 

[Here Comes the Pain]

Nah.

Kobe is better.

Team success doesn't necessarily change all of that.

I don't even think kobe is that far away from Duncan when it comes to team success anyways.

Dude went to 4 straight finals with shaq and a three straight finals with Pau.

There was times when kobe had no choice, but to put the team on his back because he didn't have the luxury of having a superb team.

Tim Duncan for the most part has always had it easier than kobe in the nba.

 

[Maximus]

No.

How many times do I have to keep telling you Kobe haters, Duncan is not better than Kobe. Him winning another role player ring won't change that.

Got y'all rewarding bench players as superstars now.

Tim & Karl Malone are the kings of being very good for a long time.

Malone's longevity was far greater than Duncan's. As a matter of fact, the two shouldn't even be compared. Malone played at an elite level for 17 straight seasons(1986-87 - 2002-03), he just didn't have a stacked team around him every year of his career like Duncan did.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

In 1999-2004 Duncan had the Spurs almost even against the Shaq-Kobe Lakers when he didn't even have another all-star on his team. People forget what a dominant baller he was.

You can say Tim had a more accomplished career, but Kobe was better than Tim in their primes. Kobe dominated dude.

When was "Kobe's prime" in which he was "dominating" Duncan?

Do you count "Kobe's prime" as age 20-23 when he wasn't even the best player on his own team?

In Kobe's childhood, Duncan/Shaq were two giants going head to head while Pop let Kobe shoot all he wanted because that was way better than Shaq shooting 60% and fouling out half his team. (Which is how Kobe ended up with lines like 26 points on 30 shots, 32 points on 31 shots, 31 points on 31 shots, 37 points on 38 shots, etc....). Kobestans just scream, "Look, Kobe got 44 points!", while Pop says, "Yeah, when Shaq is on the other side of the court, I don't mind your shooting guard taking 41 shots to get 44 points with 7 turnovers thrown in.

In the end, the Lakers got the Spurs 3 to 2 in that six-year stretch where the two teams split 5 championships (hardly "domination"), but Shaq was always the main force, not Kobe. Kobestans loving Kobe's 30+ points when he got them by volume shooting while Shaq was drawing the entire focus of the Spurs' defense. Kobe averaged 28ppg on 24 shots (shooting 46%) against the Spurs as the Lakers' second option during those years.

He dominated with his performances relative to Tim's. It's just like people will say Tim is greater than Shaq alltime, but nobody would pick Tim over Shaq in their primes. Prime Shaq shyts on the nikka. Tim & Karl Malone are the kings of being very good for a long time. But a prime Barkley is better than a prime Malone and just like mad players are better than a prime Tim.

Tim use to go head to head with Shaq in their primes. Shaq never dominated TD and vice versa. They would ALWAYS cancel each other out.

It's pretty amazing that the Spurs managed to take 2 out of 5 series during the Shaq prime when you claim that "Kobe dominated dude" AND "Prime Shaq shyts on the nikka".

Little children in this thread who don't even know what the first half of Duncan's career were like. He made the Spurs head-to-head equals against the prime Shaq/Kobe Lakers when he didn't even have another all-star on his team.

Are you completely ignorant that Duncan picked up two MVPs and two Finals MVPs right in the middle of Shaq's prime?

Obviously someone was picking Timmy over Shaq.

Here are Duncan and Shaq's head-to-head numbers:

Duncan and Shaq

• Professor Emeritus
• Mar 23, 2016

Against Shaq in the playoffs, Duncan had
a 33-14-4 and a 37-14-4 with 3 steals in 1999
a 40-15-3 with 4 blocks in 2001
a 30-11-6 with 4 blocks, 26-21-5 with 4 blocks, 27-17-5 with 5 blocks, and a 34-24-4 in 2002
a 36-9-5 and a 37-16-4 with 2 blocks in 2003
a 30-11-3 with 3 steals and 2 blocks and a 21-21-2 with 2 blocks in 2004
a 40-15-5 with 3 blocks and a 29-17 with 3 blocks in 2008.

 

[DIMES]

Work on your math young Kobestan. If you're not counting 2007 then you only got 8 years, not "10-11".

And the claim was bullshyt anyway - forget the whole 8 years which you somehow count as 10-11. Let's ONLY look at the playoffs from the last three seasons, after his athletic decline had clearly begun.

2013: "Just ignore 30 and 17 in a deciding Game 6 in the Finals that they only lost because Pop took him out on the wrong possession. (Duncan was +16 that game.) Just ignore that Duncan would have easily been Finals MVP if it hadn't been for that rebound and three."

2014: Sets the tone with a 27 and 9 performance in the first game of the playoffs against a tough Dallas team, pours in 27 against OKC in one win and comes a few rebounds away from a 20-20 in another, but it doesn't count as "taking the game over" somehow. He sprinkles in 20 and 10 games through the whole playoffs on the way averaging 15 and 10 on 57% shooting in a dominant NBA Finals....but in Kobestan you only "take the game over" by taking a bunch of ill-advised jump shots, and actually controlling the flow of the game on both ends of the court isn't considered meaningful.

2015: Lose to the Clips in 7 in their only series, but that includes a 27 and 11 game, a 26 and 9 game, and a 22 and 14 game.

If you had been alive for Magic Johnson, Bill Walton, and Bill Russell, you would have considered them "role players" too, because they just didn't take enough shots for your liking. They were too busy winning.

I did mention that.

Duncan is a great rebounder with an unremarkable offensive game. Slow and stiff. Dwight and bosh were just examples.

Let's see, Dwight Howard has better numbers then Timmy every year.....is he also the GOAT center?

Oh thats right..... Timmy has the chance to have a great squad every single year... Replaceable by 07

 

[Professor Emeritus]

I did mention that.

Duncan is a great rebounder with an unremarkable offensive game. Slow and stiff. Dwight and bosh were just examples.

Let's see, Dwight Howard has better numbers then Timmy every year.....is he also the GOAT center?

Oh thats right..... Timmy has the chance to have a great squad every single year... Replaceable by 07

"After 2007, when Duncan was 31 years old and had already won 4 titles, 3 Finals MVPs, and 2 regular season MVPs, you could have replaced him with the new 1st-team All-NBA center and the Spurs would have been just as good."

That's the most self-defeating argument I've ever heard.

Somehow that "unremarkable offensive game" outscored Shaq head-to-head in the playoffs during Shaq's prime (though on lower FG%).

Scoring wasn't even the focus of Duncan's game - he was an absolutely dominant defender and rebounder, and maybe the best all-time PF as a floor general directing ball movement. And yet he still scored 25/game in his prime. If Duncan plays one more year, he'll pass Hakeem, currently #10 all-time in the NBA in scoring.

"Shaq vs. Duncan" was basically "Wilt vs. Russell", just Duncan never had as dominant a team full of talent during those years as Russell did.




Duncan is the GOAT power forward:


You want to count accolades?

Three-time All-American
AP, Wooden, and Naismith Player of the Year
Rookie of the Year
15 All-NBA teams (1st all-time), including 10 years 1st-team All-NBA (3rd all-time)
15 All-Defensive teams (1st all-time), including 8 years 1st-team All-Defense (5th all-time) - and he deserved his
15 All-Star appearances (2nd all-time), including an All-Star MVP
2 MVPs (9th all-time), 2 runner-up finishes, 9 times in the top-5 in voting and 12 times in the top-8



You want to count postseason success?

241 playoff games (3rd all-time)
5th all-time in playoff scoring, 3rd all-time in playoff rebounds, 1st all-time in playoff blocks
6 NBA Finals appearances, including 5 championships
3 Finals MVPs (2nd all-time)



You want to count traditional statistics?

2nd in NBA in points scored in 2002, 14th in scoring in NBA history
Top-10 in NBA in FG% six times
Led NBA in rebounds in 2002, top-5 in rebounds 11 times, 6th in rebounds in NBA history
2nd in NBA in blocks in 2003, top-5 in blocks 7 times and top-10 in blocks 15 times, 5th in blocks in NBA history



You want to count advanced stats?

2nd in NBA in PER three times, top-5 in PER 9 times and top-10 in PER 13 times, 13th in PER in NBA history
Led NBA in defensive rating 4 times, top-4 in defensive rating 15 times, 2nd in defensive rating in NBA history
Led NBA in win shares twice, top-4 in win shares 8 times, 6th in win shares in NBA history

 

[Mac071415]

Lol at these fakkits with the "Tim had a stacked roster ever year" narrative. I've been saying it for years, Timmy>Kobe

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Malone's longevity was far greater than Duncan's. As a matter of fact, the two shouldn't even be compared. Malone played at an elite level for 17 straight seasons(1986-87 - 2002-03), he just didn't have a stacked team around him every year of his career like Duncan did.

Malone made his first all-NBA team in 1988 and his last in 2001.
Duncan made his first all-NBA team in 1998 and his last in 2015.


Sorry, but Duncan's run is longer.

And what's this "stacked team every year of his career" crap? From 1998-2016, the Spurs have never had more than one player on the all-star team besides Duncan in any year, and in several years early on they didn't have any. They were a good team that played well together, but not "stacked".

Meanwhile, Malone played every single year alongside arguably the greatest PG ever (Stockton) and had one of the best shooters in the league (Hornacek) on the team too. No, it wasn't a "stacked team" top to bottom, but don't act like there wasn't talent there.

 

[DIMES]

"After 2007, when Duncan was 31 years old and had already won 4 titles, 3 Finals MVPs, and 2 regular season MVPs, you could have replaced him with the new 1st-team All-NBA center and the Spurs would have been just as good."

That's the most self-defeating argument I've ever heard.

Somehow that "unremarkable offensive game" outscored Shaq head-to-head in the playoffs during Shaq's prime (though on lower FG%).

Scoring wasn't even the focus of Duncan's game - he was an absolutely dominant defender and rebounder, and maybe the best all-time PF as a floor general directing ball movement. And yet he still scored 25/game in his prime. If Duncan plays one more year, he'll pass Hakeem, currently #10 all-time in the NBA in scoring.

"Shaq vs. Duncan" was basically "Wilt vs. Russell", just Duncan never had as dominant a team full of talent during those years as Russell did.




Duncan is the GOAT power forward:


You want to count accolades?

Three-time All-American
AP, Wooden, and Naismith Player of the Year
Rookie of the Year
15 All-NBA teams (1st all-time), including 10 years 1st-team All-NBA (3rd all-time)
15 All-Defensive teams (1st all-time), including 8 years 1st-team All-Defense (5th all-time) - and he deserved his
15 All-Star appearances (2nd all-time), including an All-Star MVP
2 MVPs (9th all-time), 2 runner-up finishes, 9 times in the top-5 in voting and 12 times in the top-8



You want to count postseason success?

241 playoff games (3rd all-time)
5th all-time in playoff scoring, 3rd all-time in playoff rebounds, 1st all-time in playoff blocks
6 NBA Finals appearances, including 5 championships
3 Finals MVPs (2nd all-time)



You want to count traditional statistics?

2nd in NBA in points scored in 2002, 14th in scoring in NBA history
Top-10 in NBA in FG% six times
Led NBA in rebounds in 2002, top-5 in rebounds 11 times, 6th in rebounds in NBA history
2nd in NBA in blocks in 2003, top-5 in blocks 7 times and top-10 in blocks 15 times, 5th in blocks in NBA history



You want to count advanced stats?

2nd in NBA in PER three times, top-5 in PER 9 times and top-10 in PER 13 times, 13th in PER in NBA history
Led NBA in defensive rating 4 times, top-4 in defensive rating 15 times, 2nd in defensive rating in NBA history
Led NBA in win shares twice, top-4 in win shares 8 times, 6th in win shares in NBA history

Look tim duncan is fortunate to be on the spurs organization. His teams success has given him the pull to get those awards. He didn't deserve them individually. Just like how Wade & Kobe were robbed of MVPs they were deserving of but to due team success... We know the story.

He would be no different than a Chris bosh on a raptors squad in an alternate timeline. Just an average great pf. Not worthy of GOAT. He doesn't ever have explosion like games(since like 04). No doubles needed. Just a beneficiary of the spurs great offense. Just like those PER & defensive stats you pulled. His team has been a contender for what? 17 years? With elite offenses and defensible schemes. He SHOULD have those stats.


Kevin Garnett would have had fulfilled Tim Duncan's role considerably better. Better shooter, more athletic, better defender, better passer.

Timmy is very fortunate his teams success fooled many. It changes the perception of reality. He's a fake Superstar, a fraud GOAT contender.

 

[DIMES]

Lol at these fakkits with the "Tim had a stacked roster ever year" narrative. I've been saying it for years, Timmy>Kobe

Coach pop would rather have Kobe

 

[AlbertPullhoez]

He dominated with his performances relative to Tim's. It's just like people will say Tim is greater than Shaq alltime, but nobody would pick Tim over Shaq in their primes. Prime Shaq shyts on the nikka. Tim & Karl Malone are the kings of being very good for a long time. But a prime Barkley is better than a prime Malone and just like mad players are better than a prime Tim.

Yet Tim wound up getting back to back MVP's, 2 rings, 2 Finals MVP's and an All Star MVP while playing in the same conference as prime Shaq

 

[Mantis Toboggan M.D.]

Yet Tim wound up getting back to back MVP's, 2 rings, 2 Finals MVP's and an All Star MVP while playing in the same conference as prime Shaq

There's no winning this argument with these clowns. These are the same posters who've tried to blame the 2004 finals on Shaq

 

[n00bsauce]

Wow at this thread. How much do you contribute to the all-nba defensive teams? rebounding and block stats? Eventually you'll have to admit that talent, skill, and experience on the individual helped him be arguably the best PF in NBA history and possibly better than Kobe