Is 4K really the way to go for Scorpio/Neo? Digital Foundry thinks it's not worth it

[Fatboi1]

The bottom line is this: both Sony and Microsoft are effectively selling us the status quo in terms of gameplay, the idea being that they can create a two-tier market - existing console hardware caters for those with 1080p displays while the new machines are best experienced paired with a 4K UHD screen. But fundamentally, it's the same software, and in order to ensure that owners of existing systems are "not left behind", the chances are that they'll play much the same too. Indeed, Sony's guidelines for developers actively prohibit game-makers from providing exclusive features for the Neo hardware.

Cards on the table here - I'm not entirely sure that this is the best way forward, but I am one of the few to have had a preview of this kind of next-gen experience - and I was blown away. At the recent Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 launch, I played Rise of the Tomb Raider at native 4K with HDR enabled and with quality settings that, while not quite maxed, easily out-strip the Xbox One version. Aside from what looked like a wobbly 35-40fps (something easily fixed) the experience was simply magnificent. Improved effects, higher detail texture work, brilliantly vivid colour - this was the best Rise of the Tomb Raider experience it's possible to have, and compared to the existing console version, there was undoubtedly a 'next-gen' feel about it.

But the bottom line is that the full impact of this experience depends on ownership of a top-tier display that currently costs a lot of money. Stripped of HDR and its immense detail level, this demo would not translate particularly well when downsampled to a standard 1080p screen. And that's the display hardware that the vast majority of these new machines are likely to end up connected to. In this scenario, all you'd get is improved anti-aliasing, while other features - like the higher detail textures - tend to blur away in the downscale. This is exactly the point made by Phil Spencer, when he told Giant Bomb that Scorpio games would "look different" and "run a little better" when paired with 1080p displays, and presumably why he told Wesley Yin-Poole to stick with Xbox One if you aren't 4K-enabled.

According to the Steam hardware survey, 95 per cent of PC gamers are using 1080p or lower resolution screens. 1440p and 4K displays barely register, neither failing to hit even one per cent of the audience. 4K may well gain more traction in the living room, but the inescapable conclusion from the PC market is that the majority of gamers simply don't care about higher resolution screens. And with that in mind, the RX 480 is AMD's audacious play at targeting the mainstream PC gamer - and there is some irony that the same core technology is fuelling Sony's 4K aspirations.

Are 4K visuals really the best use for Project Scorpio and PlayStation Neo?

I personally think they should make every game 1080P/60fps with better graphics than the standard console versions. That "4k" buzzword is going to bite them in the ass. Leave 4K for bluray and streaming. Only non informed gamers will fall for the 4K shyt, 4K is not free nor is 4K the "graphics" that make the game look good. Also these aren't new consoles, it's the same exact games. You'll still be buying "Xbox One/PS4" labelled games at the store. There won't be a "Xbox Scorpio/PS4 Neo" version. The way the game looks on PS4/Xbox is how it's going to look/play on the upgrade, it'll just look as good as the dev allows/can.

What are they going to do when they can't(I"m sure this will happen) render a Xbox One game in 4K?? There will be a bunch of articles online about "fake 4K" and "upscaling in 2017 again?" like how most current games on Xbox do that shyt Quantam Break did. Smaller indie games and maybe remasters could render in 4K but leave the original games alone and just boost the graphics up to provide a super clean image, amazing visual effects and 60fps cap. 95% of the userbase could benefit from that vs just simply rendering in 4K. i know one person with a 4K and they got a pS4 and gaming PC I built for them. We played some PC games in 4K(MGSV, The Witcher 3, ROTR, RE4, Crysis 3 and Assassins Creed) and while it looked great, the shocking thing was this guy was just as amazed as playing his PS4 on the TV which wasn't even rendering in 4K. Uncharted 4, BLOPS 3, MKX and 2K looked amazing and scaled well. I'd bet you could fool a bunch of people just simply playing a 1080P console game on 4K and saying it's 4K and the majority of people would say it looks way better due to a placebo effect.

 

[DPresidential]

Exactly. Great point.

I want a machine that smoothly optimizes 1080P.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

Same could be said for X1/PS4

720p plus extra graphical bells and whistles. A.I. And other gameplay systems could be better than the barely 1080p we usually get.

Devs are gonna use the power how they see fit. Hardware isn't the problem. Devs just prioritize the wrong things.

 

[Fatboi1]

Same could be said for X1/PS4

720p plus extra graphical bells and whistles. A.I. And other gameplay systems could be better than the barely 1080p we usually get.

Devs are gonna use the power how they see fit. Hardware isn't the problem. Devs just prioritize the wrong things.

Well with PS4/Xbox we know there's a limit. We know most games ain't going to hit 1080P/60fps with what they wanna do. Devs routinely prefer making bigger and more dense games at 1080P/30fps. That 30fps cap gives them more breathing room. People want better looking games with much more shyt going on. For example, you not getting a game like Dead Rising 4 or GTA V or even that Days Gone on PS4 at 1080P/60fps. You'd have to cut back so much shyt(amount of enemies on screen, graphical fidelity, things going on "under the hood" that the game would pretty much be something different.

shyt like this would be better:
PC/PS4

and this is on an already 1080P/60fps game on PS4. That's why I find it funny people think 1080P/60fps means "max graphics" when this game has so many visual effects and image quality toned down on PS4 compared to PC.

 

[Kuwka_Atcha_Ratcha]

Are 4K visuals really the best use for Project Scorpio and PlayStation Neo?

I personally think they should make every game 1080P/60fps with better graphics than the standard console versions. That "4k" buzzword is going to bite them in the ass. Leave 4K for bluray and streaming. Only non informed gamers will fall for the 4K shyt, 4K is not free nor is 4K the "graphics" that make the game look good. Also these aren't new consoles, it's the same exact games. You'll still be buying "Xbox One/PS4" labelled games at the store. There won't be a "Xbox Scorpio/PS4 Neo" version. The way the game looks on PS4/Xbox is how it's going to look/play on the upgrade, it'll just look as good as the dev allows/can.

What are they going to do when they can't(I"m sure this will happen) render a Xbox One game in 4K?? There will be a bunch of articles online about "fake 4K" and "upscaling in 2017 again?" like how most current games on Xbox do that shyt Quantam Break did. Smaller indie games and maybe remasters could render in 4K but leave the original games alone and just boost the graphics up to provide a super clean image, amazing visual effects and 60fps cap. 95% of the userbase could benefit from that vs just simply rendering in 4K. i know one person with a 4K and they got a pS4 and gaming PC I built for them. We played some PC games in 4K(MGSV, The Witcher 3, ROTR, RE4, Crysis 3 and Assassins Creed) and while it looked great, the shocking thing was this guy was just as amazed as playing his PS4 on the TV which wasn't even rendering in 4K. Uncharted 4, BLOPS 3, MKX and 2K looked amazing and scaled well. I'd bet you could fool a bunch of people just simply playing a 1080P console game on 4K and saying it's 4K and the majority of people would say it looks way better due to a placebo effect.

breh you sound like the idiots on SOHH back in 2005 that said no point new consoles *360/ps3* being HD as no one has a HDTV. yeah you sound like those idiots.

 

[Liquid]

This is all getting very weird in the console space.

The problem is that Sony and Microsoft appear to want to keep up with the PC in terms of raw performance power. It is a dangerous game to play because the console space has already priced the consoles at a max of $400 to effectively move the units needed to support a "generation".

Scorpio/NEO will likely HAVE to launch at $500, but I am just not sure the market will react well to it. Steam machines which targeted the living room/console crowd was a fukking flop.

 

[Liquid]

breh you sound like the idiots on SOHH back in 2005 that said no point new consoles *360/ps3* being HD as no one has a HDTV. yeah you sound like those idiots.

Nobody said this. The fact that you also conveniently keep ignoring that the majority of the high end crowd (THE PC) plays at 1080P is ridiculous.

4K is simply SONY/Microsoft trying to one-up each other for the next several years. It is a gamble, but I am having fun watching it.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

Well with PS4/Xbox we know there's a limit. We know most games ain't going to hit 1080P/60fps with what they wanna do. Devs routinely prefer making bigger and more dense games at 1080P/30fps. That 30fps cap gives them more breathing room. People want better looking games with much more shyt going on. For example, you not getting a game like Dead Rising 4 or GTA V or even that Days Gone on PS4 at 1080P/60fps. You'd have to cut back so much shyt(amount of enemies on screen, graphical fidelity, things going on "under the hood" that the game would pretty much be something different.

shyt like this would be better:
PC/PS4

and this is on an already 1080P/60fps game on PS4. That's why I find it funny people think 1080P/60fps means "max graphics" when this game has so many visual effects and image quality toned down on PS4 compared to PC.

There's limits to any hardware.

Big numbers are easier to market then talking about textures and A.I. Routines.

 

[Fatboi1]

breh you sound like the idiots on SOHH back in 2005 that said no point new consoles *360/ps3* being HD as no one has a HDTV. yeah you sound like those idiots.

?

 

[Fatboi1]

This is all getting very weird in the console space.

The problem is that Sony and Microsoft appear to want to keep up with the PC in terms of raw performance power. It is a dangerous game to play because the console space has already priced the consoles at a max of $400 to effectively move the units needed to support a "generation".

Scorpio/NEO will likely HAVE to launch at $500, but I am just not sure the market will react well to it. Steam machines which targeted the living room/console crowd was a fukking flop.

Sony recently came out and said they'd prefer if people didn't go to PC during the duration of the gen.

House said that one of the key motivations for PlayStation 4 Neo was specifically to prevent high-end users from abandoning the product at an earlier point than its natural eight-year lifespan. “We’ve traditionally seen that some of the core audience tends to gravitate back to high-end PCs at some point because these are the people who want the finest graphical performance,” he said. “So here’s a great opportunity to have them stay within our ecosystem.

The specs for the Neo shows that it's likely to launch at $400 best case scenario. I think they're going to pull a "and it's out in only a couple of weeks" announcement. Rumors today said it's coming this year.

Several sources have indicated to me that PlayStation Neo launches this year, despite its E3 no-show. If that is the case, it'll be interesting to see how developers utilise its resources, and whether 4K really is the focus. And we can be equally as sure that Microsoft will be watching just as intently as it gears up for its own next-gen roll-out.

Are 4K visuals really the best use for Project Scorpio and PlayStation Neo?

 

[Liquid]

Sony recently came out and said they'd prefer if people didn't go to PC during the duration of the gen.


The specs for the Neo shows that it's likely to launch at $400 best case scenario. I think they're going to pull a "and it's out in only a couple of weeks" announcement. Rumors today said it's coming this year.
Are 4K visuals really the best use for Project Scorpio and PlayStation Neo?

Of course they will say that.

Microsoft has a distinct advantage on the PC, but the reality is that if Microsoft plays this right...their version of "steamplay" can do wonders for their businesses. They already sell surface computers...them getting a stronger foothold on the software creates even more competition on the PC in software and possibly hardware.

Everyone wins if this all pans out.

 

[Hiphoplives4eva]

Same could be said for X1/PS4

720p plus extra graphical bells and whistles. A.I. And other gameplay systems could be better than the barely 1080p we usually get.

Devs are gonna use the power how they see fit. Hardware isn't the problem. Devs just prioritize the wrong things.

Exactly. Xbox gamers have been telling these clowns this since the past 3 years, yet these disingenuous Sony stans continued to act as if 1080p/60fps is the defacto standard, and any game not meeting that would be trash. As a gamer that has a powerful gaming PC, X1, and the PS4, the gaming experiences on the three platforms are extremely close, despite the minor graphical differences. Hell, Ryse and Quantum break look better than 95% of the titles on PS4 or PC, yet it's being rendered on the weakest console.

The entire 4K vs 1080P argument is extremely overrated. 4K should be reserved for gaming and tech enthusiasts. It shouldn't be the standard, because it puts needless hardware demands on gaming. Nintendo will likely take the next gen IMHO.

 

[Kamikaze Revy]

Exactly. Xbox gamers have been telling these clowns this since the past 3 years, yet these disingenuous Sony stans continued to act as if 1080p/60fps is the defacto standard, and any game not meeting that would be trash. As a gamer that has a powerful gaming PC, X1, and the PS4, the gaming experiences on the three platforms are extremely close, despite the minor graphical differences. Hell, Ryse and Quantum break look better than 95% of the titles on PS4 or PC, yet it's being rendered on the weakest console.

The entire 4K vs 1080P argument is extremely overrated. 4K should be reserved for gaming and tech enthusiasts. It shouldn't be the standard, because it puts needless hardware demands on gaming. Nintendo will likely take the next gen IMHO.

 

[Fatboi1]

Exactly. Xbox gamers have been telling these clowns this since the past 3 years, yet these disingenuous Sony stans continued to act as if 1080p/60fps is the defacto standard, and any game not meeting that would be trash. As a gamer that has a powerful gaming PC, X1, and the PS4, the gaming experiences on the three platforms are extremely close, despite the minor graphical differences. Hell, Ryse and Quantum break look better than 95% of the titles on PS4 or PC, yet it's being rendered on the weakest console.

The entire 4K vs 1080P argument is extremely overrated. 4K should be reserved for gaming and tech enthusiasts. It shouldn't be the standard, because it puts needless hardware demands on gaming. Nintendo will likely take the next gen IMHO.

Low-key you hilarious :mlol:

 

[Liquid]

Low-key you hilarious :mlol:

He does have a point.

That 1080P shyt on the PS4 is almost equivalent to the Sega Genesis "Blast Processing" bullshyt. Sony was just smart to take advantage of Microsoft's mistakes under Mattrick. The games don't look THAT different outside of a few exceptions.