I hate this label tbh. We just spent a decade calling Aaron Rodgers ‘the greatest thrower of the football’ and honestly wtf does that even mean. Unless you’re a QB who just never gets weapons or a defense, you need to be judged with chips taken into account. Not blindly, so of course Eli manning isn’t better than A Rod, but, for example, Joe Montana sure as hell is. And drew Brees is A Rod’s equal. Doesn’t matter who spun it better. Both got 1 ring both got gaudy stats. No more arbitrary labels
I say all that to say….Mahomes need chips to move up in all time discussions. I don’t gaf about how good it
looks. Now if he wins this one
it’s spooky he’s way up there.
But if he loses
he’d have 1 ring despite 5 home AFC title games …and he’s no longer on a rookie deal. Plus a high likelihood that Allen, burrow, etc could tie him with 1 chip at any moment…hell hurts with 1 ring would be at his neck too
Doesnt matter if he ain’t winning chips. Peyton had the numbers, Marino had numbers, Rodgers, etc. To be above everybody else at QB you gotta win chips or you’ll be in Aaron Rodgers territory with some random arbitrary title ‘Greatest thrower of the ball’
Even if you have stats if you don’t have chips you fade in QB convos see Peyton
Exactly, this thing that cats are doing where rings don't matter is some new shyt. They aren't the end-all be-all, but you aren't really in the conversation with 1, when the consensus Top 2 have 4 and 7...
Two get you in the conversation but Manning hurt himself as he didn't dominate either Super Bowl he won. Mahomes had a great 4thQ in the one he won but was mediocre for three quarters, let's say they win in 11 days but it's another game he doesn't really dominate. 2 has him in the mix but these nuances matter and when you're talking about comparing a Y6 player to the legends of the sport this type of shyt matters...
As of yet, Mahomes doesn't have a Super Bowl on par with '03 Brady (vs Carolina); '14 Brady (defeating the greatest defense in NFL history in historic fashion); '16 Brady (one-upped his '14 self with the greatest comeback ever); and '17 Brady (greatest QB performance in a loss in Super Bowl history)...
This is what we comparing Mahomes to, this is what dudes are arguing as better than, there's a lack of objectivity here based on "talent" and "skill". I haven't even started on Montana's legendary Super Bowl performances that Mahomes doesn't have an answer to, either...
For the hundredth time, I've been beating this drum for four years or so: Mahomes IS NOT the first quarterback we've been told is the "greatest talent" we've ever seen at the position. He's NOT the first guy we've been told is doing shyt that's never been done at the position before. There's literally a 40-year evolution at this position, there's a new guy every fukking generation where NFL heads jump out the window with the "wow, we've never seen anything like this before"...
In 1-6 years there will be another quarterback who will enter this league and cats will do the
shyt, "my God we've never seen a player this talented before". You can bank on this happening, it's gonna happen. Maybe this guy sits a year like Mahomes and we don't know immediately who he is. Maybe he takes 3 to 5 years to warm up like Favre and Rodgers, but when he finally warms up his presence is undeniable...
Maybe he's like Manning and is fukking garbage Y1 but from Y2 on you know you're playing with something different. Or maybe he's like Dan The Man and it's an instant introduction on some All-Time shyt...
That next guy, we don't know who he is yet, he could currently be in college and he may still be in high school somewhere. We don't know whether his announcement as an All-Timer will be instantaneous or take a few years. But one thing we know is there WILL BE A NEXT GUY who heads will tell you is a better "talent", has more "skill", can do more things with the football, than anybody who ever came before him.
And at that point, that "everyone before him" will include Patrick Mahomes, a transcendent, once-in-a-lifetime talent who was the most recent "best talent ever" title holder...
This is an important footnote on NFL history for literally the last 4 decades because it allows a person to keep context on what we're talking about with Mahomes (or anyone else)...
Below that threshold, there've been many, many talented, skillful QBs in this league. That alone doesn't make anything. The combination of historic level dominance (which Mahomes has so far) has to be matched with historic level championship play---->he doesn't have this yet. His greatest hits are ALL before the Super Bowl. His greatest hits aren't touching Brady's 4 greatest hits minimum, and possibly more if we start talking Brady's greatest championship game performances (he's played in 15 of em)...
To this point Mahomes' greatest hits aren't matching Montana's. These two have several apiece, that came at the biggest stage. Period. If Mahomes puts on an All-Time performance in 11 days it would still leave him below a conversation with those two, who have SEVERAL hallmark Super Bowl performances. One if Brady's came in a Super Bowl loss, so it doesn't necessarily matter if Mahomes loses the game, it's how does he actually play, but if he does this in 11 days we're still talking 1 such moment for him to two guys with multiple...
To your point, if he loses the Super Bowl, or he has another bad or subpar Super Bowl showing, win or loss. I know the Mahomes Stan Club on here doesn't wanna hypothesize either, but if he loses the Super Bowl he's 1-2 despite 5 consecutive home AFCCGs, Montana never lost a Super Bowl and Brady never had a losing Super Bowl record, Mahomes starts looking more Manning-ish. If they win or lose, but his play is weak or average well below his standards, we're talking 3 for 3 in Super Bowls that he wasn't really great in besides the back half of his first one...
Nothing changes that he's the best guy of this era by a wide margin, nothing changes that you can still have a legitimate conversation with him and other Top 10 GOATs. But we're having historical talk about him and entertaining that he is THE greatest QB ever. Cats gotta be objective with this shyt and not rush to crown people simply because they are fans...
