Is the lack of new starpower a real concern or do we just have to give it time?

[45123]

LMAO wait you were the one saying I should have drafted Reigns in the fantasy draft right? You got him above Edge/Jericho/Foley now?


get off dude's jock he ain't on that level

Uhh if we're talking popularity, how is Edge or Jericho bigger and more popular stars than Roman? Edge coasted the latter half of his career and was a midcard act the beginning years of his career. Jericho was super over as a face like once his entire career, and during the AE at that when everyone was over to some degree. Foley's the only one who you can argue was more over at his peak but his reign was leprechauns. I don't like comparing Roman to any of them either way cuz Roman is still relatively early in his career and they're all HOF legends, but at his current trajectory Roman is on pace to exceed Edge, Jericho, and Foley in terms of popularity. It's not like this is me being on his dikk, this is just my opinion of where he's at popularity wise

 

[Beautiful Bobby Eatin]

Roman's been given chances and he's knocked them out of the park every, single, time. It's the smarks who won't give him a chance.

When? It wasnt his rumble win. It wasnt his Wrestlemania win. He had two great matches with the best wrestler in the world right now, this is true but is that really knocking it out of the park? The Rusev feud was embarassing and the Owens feud has already overstayed its welcome. Where is this overachieving coming from?

I don't think it matters how you get the pop, as long as you get the pop. It's easy to say all that, but Reigns still consistently gets large reactions today (cheers at that), so I don't think the Janetty/Gibson comparison holds in that regard

When are these pops? He gets booed in smaller cities too not just smark ones.

They help the product in the sense that they are the foundations of your casual audience. The kids are bringing their parents, and when the kids grow up the WWE becomes a childhood staple which makes the whole "Then, Now, Forever" tagline really mean something. The fact that almost everybody who grew up in the US from the 80's to today has watched wrestling at one point or another is worth a whole lot. And of course female viewers help, do you know how many casual fans Total Divas brings?

And I don't wanna get into a discussion about ratings because they need a whole lot of context. Only time ratings go up these days is when part timers are advertised to appear, that's not indicative of Roman's drawing power, that's indicative of WWE's popularity and the interest in their current main eventers as a whole. You say Roman isn't someone worth investing in and that he doesn't draw ratings, and yet Daniel Bryan never did either so are you saying he's someone not worth investing in?

The casual fans were NEVER the foundation they are the desired target. The hardcore fans arr the foundation because thats what you build off of because they are tougher to chase away and anyone who runs their business otherwise is doomed to fail.

Here is the difference with wrestling though, theres TONS of moving parts. Anyone could be in Reigns role. They settled on it because its what THEY want. The hardcores didnt choose him. The casuals didnt choose him. The company chose him. Roman Reigns is not the end all be all for the casual wrestling fan. If he doesnt wind up being WWE champion theyll move on. Why? Because they are only CASUALLY invested in the product. You need to make sure your hardcores are happy too because wether anyone would like to admit it or not, is a larger part of the paying audience than the casual fan.

I brought up ratings to play devils advocate to see what the company has to gain from keeping him in this spot? Daniel Bryan didnt move the needle either but he sold a ton of the ugliest merchandise ive ever seen. Was a cross brand star thanks to the yes chant. A great wrestler and a built in fan favorite the fans couldnt hate.

I'll agree with you on this, guys booked in top babyface positions are gonna get over with kids regardless. But from a marketing perspective, there's a lot you can attach to Roman Reigns' brand that makes it easier to sell him to kids and a paying audience. The vest, the gloves, the cool taunts, the cool moves, the cool expressions.

Look man im not saying some of this hate he gets isnt a bit unwarranted, but there is no way I see this experiment working unless something changes soon.

 

[dh86]

Uhh if we're talking popularity, how is Edge or Jericho bigger and more popular stars than Roman? Edge coasted the latter half of his career and was a midcard act the beginning years of his career. Jericho was super over as a face like once his entire career, and during the AE at that when everyone was over to some degree. Foley's the only one who you can argue was more over at his peak but his reign was leprechauns. I don't like comparing Roman to any of them either way cuz Roman is still relatively early in his career and they're all HOF legends, but at his current trajectory Roman is on pace to exceed Edge, Jericho, and Foley in terms of popularity. It's not like this is me being on his dikk, this is just my opinion of where he's at popularity wise

This is Foley peak. Why arent advertisers beating down Roman's door if hes a star with "the look"?

 

[Buggsy Mogues]

Uhh if we're talking popularity, how is Edge or Jericho bigger and more popular stars than Roman? Edge coasted the latter half of his career and was a midcard act the beginning years of his career. Jericho was super over as a face like once his entire career, and during the AE at that when everyone was over to some degree. Foley's the only one who you can argue was more over at his peak but his reign was leprechauns. I don't like comparing Roman to any of them either way cuz Roman is still relatively early in his career and they're all HOF legends, but at his current trajectory Roman is on pace to exceed Edge, Jericho, and Foley in terms of popularity. It's not like this is me being on his dikk, this is just my opinion of where he's at popularity wise

What do you describe as "popularity" -- crowd reactions? ticket sales? merchandise sales? drawing ability? crossover appeal?

By none of these measures has Reigns proven himself to be anywhere near the level of any of these guys you're mentioning.

Just because he's been pushed heavy doesn't mean he's popular. The two aren't one in the same. He's in no way a crossover star or household name, which is saying something considering how hard they've pushed him. Mention Roman Reigns and most people won't know who tf you're talking about

 

[dh86]

If I asked my facebook timeline right now, im not sure if more people would know who Roman Reigns is than Nikki Bella. Total Divas reached real far making the Bella twins stars amongst women. Of course those women dont watch WWE at all otherwise tho

 

[mrken12]

If I asked my facebook timeline right now, im not sure if more people would know who Roman Reigns is than Nikki Bella. Total Divas reached real far making the Bella twins stars amongst women. Of course those women dont watch WWE at all otherwise tho

The Bella Twins have major crossover appeal. Especially with all that E! publicity. Way more recognizable than Reigns by far.

I still don't get why people believe Reigns will be a big crossover star like Cena.

Roman is over with the kids because the kids will like anyone made to look like the hero. Never mind the fact that he doesnt play that part half as well as a Cena. Kids are conditioned to like the good guy.

Ladies love him because he is good looking. Which I guess can make you a main event guy alone but he doesnt even rock the pretty boy swag as well as even a face Randy Orton used to and that turn actually failed.

Those two areas DO NOT help the product. The ratings are still down. He doesnt add one single viewer to RAW. None. Its proven in the ratings thread. At this point is he even top 5 in merch sales?

Reigns got pops in the Shield because he was the tank, the unknown component. He got the hot tag and cleaned house but so did everyone from Robert Gibson to Marty Janetty. It doesnt make them main event guys though and those guys were better workers than Reigns (who i am NOT saying is bad by any means just not an elite player).

Not loving Reigns doesnt make you a hater or having preconcieved notions. Its not like he hasnt been given a chance. He has and an overwhelming amount of the largest crowds disapprove. Its just what it is.

Probably not. Styles, New Day, Ambrose, Cena, Sasha Banks, Rollins, The Bellas, and Bayley probably have him beat.

 

[Vinny Lupton]

This is partly by design. They do not want another Dwayne, Austin, Hogan, or even Cena who can get big and leave them, either for Hollywood or if some competition pops up. You can best belee that they are never having another top guy who owns his own name. If "Joe Anoai" wants to go somewhere he will have to leave "Roman Reigns", the bank book, the credit cards and all the jewels

WWE doesn't want to bang a dime. Too much headache and you always gotta worry she gon leave you for a basketball player. They are happy cooking with 6's and 7's with less options until they get tired of them. We all saw how when CM Punk was hot and getting mainstream attention with "the pipe bomb", they threw water on it real quicc

 

[Roman Brady]

This facts only dude is bit sketchy with his facts. Anyone that has been following wrestling for the past 15 years knows Randy is not iconic hell he's not even popular

 

[Nintendough]

Wrestling is dying. Final diagnosis.

 

[moochoman]

Undertaker is a superstar bro. Everyone knows him. He never did much outside of wrestling media wise. But he's a superstar.

My mother and grandmother know the Undertaker.

The rest I agree.

Ima keep my comment short.

AS LONG AS THERE ARE SCRIPTED PROMOS, THERE WILL BE NO STARS. That's it...

No writer is thinking up "Rudy Poo, Candy Ass", "or "Austin 3:16 just says..." or "That's the bottom line" or "20 inch pythons" or "Poon Tang Pie", "Have a Nice Day" "The Road Dogg Jesse James..." etc.


You give the guys freedom and run with what works.

you can't calculate what people will embrace. You can only feed them more of what they are into.

If the fans bringing signs of a particular thing, u make a shirt of that. Not confiscate the fukking sign.

They are proactively STOPPING PEOPLE FROM GETTING OVER. That's not on the talent.

WWE ARE fukkING IDIOTS MAN.

These new dudes probably are creative geniuses but they are neutered and the company seems to think you can manufacture crossover appeal. ITS IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!

New Day, and Enzo and Cass are over and will stay over because there characters are SELF DEFINED.

Sami can wrestle his ass off but he's the definition of CAW, change the channel on me wrestler.

This x 10. No new stars because they aren't allowed to connect with the fans. Read this promo word for word, don't say this, don't look at the camera during promos, don't show real emotion, don't react to the crowd etc. Could you see savage, rock, Austin, flair, DX even doing that?

 

[Dreamzeedream]

I think it is a problem but only to a certain extent. No, they will probably never get back to mainstream glory without one or two transcendent guys. But it's not mainstream or bust.

They have made it clear that they're playing by their own set of rules (everything from creative to who's getting pushed) so they have to live with the consequences. It's hard to make superstars who transcend wrestling when you haven't consistently made superstars who even connect with the crowd. Hell, they could have the next Austin or Rock or Hogan or (more realistically) Cena on the roster right now, but they probably just haven't tapped into him. Combine that with the "there can only be one" thinking of the past decade and a half and it's easy to see where we are now. Not to mention their lack of confidence in their day-to-day workhorses is shown all through the year as they continue to bring in guys who are 10-20 years past their prime to sell their events since they can't effectively build a "mainstream" roster.

I don't think giving it time is an option here as they've proven that they will do whatever the hell they want to do anyway. They've legitimately sabotaged their next golden goose (Punk), waited too long while sabotaging the golden goose after him (Bryan) and didn't never tried to use their current golden goose in his prime (Cena) to elevate a viable opponent and successor.

he's still in his prime

 

[Dreamzeedream]

Be real Undertaker, HHH, Batista, Mysterio, Show and some of these other guys don't belong in this discussion. If you're talking about BIG STARS that truly move the needle and can carry the company for the next decade, it's Rock and Austin, then Cena in the new era. Rest of these dudes were all supporting players.

Reason it's not happening now is WWE conditioned you to believe nobody was on Cena's level for the past 15 years. He always comes out on top and anyone who got close was brushed off to the side, so now that's why business falls when he's gone because fans believe Cena is the big star and nobody can touch him. They are finally starting to get guys over on him like AJ, but as great as he is he's not the kind of crossover superstar that can carry the company.

Also the company is so bad creatively right now, that guys who have talent aren't being used in interesting ways. Imagine if Cena stayed as the whitemeat bland guy he debuted as, instead of becoming the rapper gimmick. Nobody has interesting gimmicks or characters anymore.

More I watch of this Kenny Omega cat he might be the one

Takers s superstar

 

[The Prince of All Saiyans]

didn't read this thread but lemme guess somebody gets proven wrong multiple times over but still too retarded to realize it

 

[showtime]

I know you hate Cena but that's not real life. WM 21 him and Batista were both rising at the same time, Batista even got the main event slot, he was initially pushed to be the face of the company but the crowd reactions/business eventually dictated to switch over to Cena and give him the bigger star push. Once they swapped Batista to SD and Cena to RAW it was a wrap.

John Cena NEVER moved the ratings like the other guys he does not belong on the list with them. The ratings went DOWN every year Cena was the face of the company and look where it's at now. Also the crowd BOOED Cena several times during the WM 21 match against JBL, he was never chosen to be the face of th company by the crowd he was forced down people's throats

 

[Straw Hat Luffy]

It is a concern because the roster from top to bottom is gifted as its ever been.
Vince is so out of touch though.
He's focused on Roman being the number 1 guy when he should be the number 1 heel
The Cruiserweights wrestle 3 mins on Raw and then are forced to wrestle right after SD.
The Tag Division on Raw fell victim to the record so now everyone needs to restart from scratch
The hot potato title between Charlotte and Sasha


so much shyt Vince isn't doing right. I get his love for the part timers because they bring in money but damn those old fukks don't have to main event the ppv's that's why they're no stars. You can't create them if they aren't in the star positions.