Is the lack of new starpower a real concern or do we just have to give it time?

45123

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What do you describe as "popularity" -- crowd reactions? ticket sales? merchandise sales? drawing ability? crossover appeal?

By none of these measures has Reigns proven himself to be anywhere near the level of any of these guys you're mentioning.

Just because he's been pushed heavy doesn't mean he's popular. The two aren't one in the same. He's in no way a crossover star or household name, which is saying something considering how hard they've pushed him. Mention Roman Reigns and most people won't know who tf you're talking about

I measure popularity in this day and age by crowd reactions (not just entrances but crowd engagement during matches and segments and moments) and how much the crowd gaf, social media buzz and brand recognition to casuals, merch sales, and general interest in what the wrestler is doing and buzz surrounding their matches and programs. I don't like to look at ticket sales because I think its outdated to say people pay money to go see 1 guy although it does help if say Cena or HHH is advertised to appear, or ratings because they aren't a good way to measure starpower as has been proven for the last decade, plus both need a lot of context if you're gonna bring them up. And I don't like to look at "crossover appeal" either cuz nowadays either WWE forges a lot of that, or you only see it happen to legends so its not fair to compare current guys to them in that regard.



Compare Reigns' Google Trends figures to Randy, who had his whole RKO meme thing in 2014, and who's continually one of the most recognized faces and names in the industry:
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Compare his figures to Dean Ambrose, someone who I actually prefer over Roman and someone who I feel like is a massively over top draw and one of the most popular guys in the company, but with someone with a Foley type ceiling popularity wise:
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And finally, compare him to the golden boy face of the company John Cena, who's popularity tremendously outranks everyone, and yet Reigns holds his own during certain periods:
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Roman was also #3 in merch sales over the course of 2015, and considering how many months out of that year he was in the midcard, and how he was competing with Cena and the part timer legends, that's still pretty impressive.





I also look at Youtube video views:

This is the #15 most viewed WWE video on Youtube:


#28 - #30:




#42:


When you're consistently in the top 50 most viewed videos for WWE's Youtube channel (which is probably the main source for people to catch up on WWE content), and you're up there in views among vids featuring Cena, Taker, Brock, Mysterio, etc. and the usual odd stuff (Multi man matches, sexy thumbnails) it's hard to ignore that.


And finally just from personal experience, I know a lot of casual fans / non-watchers who know Reigns by name, and that kids can't get enough of him. I also read something about a marketability study among fans that ranked John Cena, The Undertaker, Brock Lesnar and Roman Reigns as the top 5 in likability and marketability. With the tactical vest, the attire, the gloves, the hair, the cool taunts moves and expressions, Reigns has a lot more attributable aspects to his character, branding, and image than the average wrestler, and it makes sense that he can be more marketed and sold more easily. Granted a lot of his popularity has to do with just the way he's been booked, but the same can be said for every star in the history of the company.
 
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45123

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This is Foley peak. Why arent advertisers beating down Roman's door if hes a star with "the look"?


:russ: This is neglecting the fact that WWE themselves pick who appears in these commercials in the first place. If WWE still had a sponsorship with Chef Boyardee you damn right he would have appeared in a commercial or two (if these types of commercials with celeb sponsors for non-sports household brands even exist anymore) And this is WWE having an advertising partnership with Chef Boyardee, not Chef Boyardee having a sponsorship deal with Foley. There was a string of these in the AE:
 

45123

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When? It wasnt his rumble win. It wasnt his Wrestlemania win. He had two great matches with the best wrestler in the world right now, this is true but is that really knocking it out of the park? The Rusev feud was embarassing and the Owens feud has already overstayed its welcome. Where is this overachieving coming from?

Reigns has a reputation now for being one of the most reliable, consistent, and top workers in the company who always puts on great matches. When Reigns was given that title run in late 2015, he received massive pops and put on a couple good matches with Sheamus. When he was given the Mania feud with Brock, he put on one of the best Mania main events in recent history. When he was in The Shield, he was a standout member and pegged to be a star before they broke up. Those Rusev and Owens feuds were bad because of the booking and writing, why are you shifting that blame on him?

When are these pops? He gets booed in smaller cities too not just smark ones.

Yeah Reigns gets booed in most towns he's in, but to say he's universally hated and that he generates zero positive reactions is absurd. Just pay attention to his entrances and his matches during Raw, there's a sizable volume of people cheering for him and what he does. And if you want really specific instances,


The casual fans were NEVER the foundation they are the desired target. The hardcore fans arr the foundation because thats what you build off of because they are tougher to chase away and anyone who runs their business otherwise is doomed to fail.

I didn't say casual fans ARE the foundation, I said women and children are THE foundations of your casual audience.

And yeah, hardcore fans are tougher to chase away, that's why if you're running a business, you appease the hardcore fans to a degree but you do more to appease your casual audience. That makes sense, no?

Here is the difference with wrestling though, theres TONS of moving parts. Anyone could be in Reigns role. They settled on it because its what THEY want. The hardcores didnt choose him. The casuals didnt choose him. The company chose him. Roman Reigns is not the end all be all for the casual wrestling fan. If he doesnt wind up being WWE champion theyll move on. Why? Because they are only CASUALLY invested in the product. You need to make sure your hardcores are happy too because wether anyone would like to admit it or not, is a larger part of the paying audience than the casual fan.

What you're describing is the Cena-sphere where someone is the be all end all. I've never seen Reigns on that level at all, what I'm saying is he's in a tier below that, with the Triple H's, Orton's, Bret's, etc. Guys who are also moving pieces but valuable pieces nevertheless. If you think I'm saying Reigns is a Cena-level star then you missed the part when I've said numerous times Reigns is in that A- level below the A+'s.

Look man im not saying some of this hate he gets isnt a bit unwarranted, but there is no way I see this experiment working unless something changes soon.

I know what you mean, its just that I see Reigns as a Triple H ceiling, not the Cena/Rock ceiling Vince and co see him as. What you're arguing against for the most part relates to if I was putting Reigns in that Cena-sphere, which I'm not
 

Roman Brady

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It is a concern because the roster from top to bottom is gifted as its ever been.
Vince is so out of touch though.
He's focused on Roman being the number 1 guy when he should be the number 1 heel
The Cruiserweights wrestle 3 mins on Raw and then are forced to wrestle right after SD.
The Tag Division on Raw fell victim to the record so now everyone needs to restart from scratch
The hot potato title between Charlotte and Sasha


so much shyt Vince isn't doing right. I get his love for the part timers because they bring in money but damn those old fukks don't have to main event the ppv's that's why they're no stars. You can't create them if they aren't in the star positions.
don't take this the wrong way but were you born in this century by any chance?
 

Roman Brady

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You have an over inflated opinion of Randy Orton, he's not a star :yeshrug:wasn't trying to hurt your feelings it's just the truth@FactsOnly :mjlol:
 
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45123

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I can understand people saying Orton wasn't a draw but coli taking new lows acting like Orton is some unknown dude to the world lol.

It's not The Coli lol, its just this dude. I'm 90% sure he's just a troll / cognitively impaired individual
 

Roman Brady

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Sorry what exactly does this prove other than ppl watch wwe? Ask any hardcore fan to name a classic from Randy Orton(he ain't even respect within the IWC). What is the # for his merch sales? We know what his movies did and how he can never host an SNL. So I don't really know the metric you are working off, there were times in history when he looked on the cusp but if 2016/17 is anything to go by he can easily be forgotten in history
 

Roman Brady

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I can understand people saying Orton wasn't a draw but coli taking new lows acting like Orton is some unknown dude to the world lol.
Who said he wasn't a draw I said he's not an icon (dude was putting him in the same breath as taker and cena) Nor is he popular to be on a Kelly, SNL or GMA
 

Straw Hat Luffy

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Sorry what exactly does this prove other than ppl watch wwe? Ask any hardcore fan to name a classic from Randy Orton(he ain't even respect within the IWC). What is the # for his merch sales? We know what his movies did and how he can never host an SNL. So I don't really know the metric you are working off, there were times in history when he looked on the cusp but if 2016/17 is anything to go by he can easily be forgotten in history
He's not a megastar that's on big movie screens but he's still a huge star in the wrestling world where he's crossed over in current pop culture with the rko before I don't know how you can discredit that.

because of an opinion over a pretend wrestler? :russ:You know it's fake right?


Why would you say something like this? You got into a discussion over a wrestler in the wrestling section. Sounds like a I know you are but what am I answer.
 
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