Is Westbrook a Top 10 All-Time PG?

[ISO]

He got those accolades at the expense of the ring though.

He ain’t the only ringless guy that doesn’t take him out a top 10. It is what it is OKC was real close many years.

Who knows he might get a ring later on in a smaller role like Kidd, GP did.

 

[murksiderock]

Nah, I think he’s firmly past his prime.

In fact both this year and last year he was trash for about 70% of the seasons. In both years he had monstrous ramp ups to end the year. He can get his numbers but he’s really inefficient now.

We'll just disagree on this, then. Last year Russ shot a career high at the rim which is telling for a guy who attacks the basket the way he does. Shot a career high from the field on the second most shot attempts of his career...

That was in Year 12, guys posting career highs shooting the ball on high volume in Year 12 are in their prime to me. Not his peak, '20 Russ isn't the best version of Russ ever, but last year showed he was still in his prime...

I'd also argue, regarding the ramp ups last year and this year, that still being able to do that, in correlation with the aforementioned injuries that may have affected his starts to both seasons, collectively prove that he's still in his prime, albeit at the end of it...

When he starts a season free of injury and looks ass, and when he can't ramp up late in the year anymore, thats when he'll probably be squarely outside of his prime...

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Russy’s playoff career without Durant this is how I see it...

In 2017, OKC had no business being in the playoffs and it was one of the greatest displays of floor raising in NBA history. I don’t penalize him there because he shouldn’t have even been there.

Bullshyt, Oladipo as the #1 with a worst supporting cast took Bron's team to 7 the next year. Westbrook, Oladipo, Sabonis, Adams, Grant, Kanter, Robertson, Taj, McDermott is a decent roster that should be a tough out in the playoffs. The same Rockets that washed Russ's Thunder easily got blown off the court by the Patty Mills Spurs in the next series.

And I ain't going to forgive Russ for literally standing under the basket waiting for rebounds in crunch time while Pat Beverley drained wide-open threes.

In 2018, they lost to the Jazz in an even match up. Russy did go ape shyt in the final two games and it was PG-13 who really underperformed closing that series though.

Jazz didn't win another playoff series in 3 years after that. You're talking Russ-PG13-Adams-Carmelo vs. Mitchell-Rubio-Gobert-Ingles. The only way that's an "even matchup" is if 20yo Donovan Mitchell >> Russell Westbrook. How can some of y'all claim that Westbrook is one of the GOATs and then turn around and say that he shouldn't be expected to surpass a Donovan Mitchell-led team when he has a better #2?

PG13 averaged 25-6-3 on better shooting % than Russ. If that's underperforming, then what the fukk was Donovan Mitchell's #2 doing? And PG13's numbers would have been even better if Russ didn't take 80+ shots the last two games. George played fine in both the Thunder wins as well as in the Game 4 loss, but Westbrook was a combined 37-97 with 21 turnovers in the four losses.

In 2019, Dame sonned him badly.

And people trying to say Westbrook better than Dame.

In 2020, Russ had the quad injury and COVID and by this point he’s clearly past his prime.

I'll give you the injury, but they weren't gonna do jack shyt before the injury either.

 

[cartierhoe]

Russy’s playoff career without Durant this is how I see it...

In 2017, OKC had no business being in the playoffs and it was one of the greatest displays of floor raising in NBA history. I don’t penalize him there because he shouldn’t have even been there.

In 2018, they lost to the Jazz in an even match up. Russy did go ape shyt in the final two games and it was PG-13 who really underperformed closing that series though.

In 2019, Dame sonned him badly.

In 2020, Russ had the quad injury and COVID and by this point he’s clearly past his prime.

His 2017 squad had some nice pieces, he just wanted to do his own thing.

 

[Shadow King]

He ain’t the only ringless guy that doesn’t taking him out a top 10. It is what it is OKC was real close many years.

Who knows he might get a ring later on in a smaller role like Kidd, GP did.

He's not, but a big part of that "real close" is due to his flaws.

 

[ISO]

First off:

Jason Kidd:
NBA Champ
10x Allstar
5x first team all nba
5x first team all defense
5x assist leader


Lillard:
6x Allstar
1x First team all nba
ROY


Irving:
NBA champ
7x Allstar
ROY

You not serious man them nikkas don’t hold a candle to Kidd career wise.

Kidd led his team them Nets to the FINALS TWICE my man Kyrie had a chance in Boston with a helluva team and BLEW it and ran to Brooklyn to be a #3 option

Dame has gotten Portland to the WCF I’ll give him credit but neither one of these guys is better than Kidd stop!

Why you naming these accolades? Lol, my man I rank players based off their skills and impact as players.

There is no version of Kidd that I'm taking over current Dame Lillard

Kyrie '16 Finals>>anything Kidd did

Kidd's Nets teams were based off defense and fast break offense. They struggled as a half court team and had an overall below average offense. Kidd was weak in the half court out here pounding the ball with his back to the defense. He didn't anchor many great offenses for as dynamic of a passer as he was. Those Nets teams would have benefitted more from having guys like Kyrie and Dame who are elite scorers. Dame is one of the rangiest and best off the bounce scorers and Kyrie is a monster from all three zones. From a PG efficient shot creation and playmaking is the best attribute you can have.

Outside of those two years where Kidd made the Finals on fringe 50 win teams in the W.O.A.T. version of the East what is there really to speak of?

Kidd was a highly flawed player he played for a really long time and was able to compile accolades and counting stats because of it...

 

[ISO]

His 2017 squad had some nice pieces, he just wanted to do his own thing.

Disagree. It was a really bad team. Enes Kanter was arguably the second best player.

 

[ogc163]

No. This dude is one of the most overrated players ever. Another case of aesthetics overly influencing people.

 

[cartierhoe]

Disagree. It was a really bad team. Enes Kanter was arguably the second best player.

Better than a 24 year old Oladipo? He still had Adams, he had a young Sabonis as well, I can't agree. He just went all in doing shyt his way and didn't trust guys enough.

 

[Rigby.]

What's the criteria? Are we trying to win a playoff game or a title? Then I'm taking Magic, Steph, Isiah, CP3, Nash, Kidd, Oscar, West, Stockton, Frazier, Parker, Dame, Penny, and Payton before I'm taking Russ.





You missed Walt Frazier and Jerry West. Bob Cousy too if you want to include him, he was league MVP the same year they won their first title. And of course Billups and Tony Parker have FMVP even if they were more part of ensemble casts.

"Rings" are always a dumb criteria out of context. But in terms of playoff success, Russ is waaaay behind a lot of guys on that list. Besides Magic/Steph/Isiah/Frazier/West/Cousy/Billups/Parker, you also have Payton and Kidd who took their teams to Finals as the clear team leader, Nash, Rose, and Dame who took their teams to WCF. CP3 and even Oscar Robertson have won more series and frankly looked and played better as a #1 than Russ has too.

I didn’t miss Jerry, he was also on that list. Went 1-8 and wasn’t the alpha on the one he got. By that aforementioned topic of winning, plus rings, I don’t think what he contributed made up enough gap to put him over Russ as a player

And that’s the nuance I was talking about...someone like Tony Parker was exposed to more playoff runs with a better, consistent system, so yeah he has more success. I don’t think what he did as the 2 or 3 cog outweighs Russ just being a better player than the guy though. Someone like Dame is hard to really argue against or for because his WCF run was such an anomaly but it was definitely impressive. Rose and Nash’s extended runs came in more favorable settings than Russ has had as a #1 imo

I don’t feel like going on forever, but Russ’s placement comes down to how much you weigh folks team success over how good a player is on his own merit...that’s gonna be different for everyone

 

[Bledswole]

Why you naming these accolades? Lol, my man I rank players based off their skills and impact as players.

There is no version of Kidd that I'm taking over current Dame Lillard

Kyrie '16 Finals>>anything Kidd did

Kidd's Nets teams were based off defense and fast break offense. They struggled as a half court team and had an overall below average offense. Kidd was weak in the half court out here pounding the ball with his back to the defense. He didn't anchor many great offenses for as dynamic of a passer as he was. Those Nets teams would have benefitted more from having guys like Kyrie and Dame who are elite scorers. Dame is one of the rangiest and best off the bounce scorers and Kyrie is a monster from all three zones. From a PG efficient shot creation and playmaking is the best attribute you can have.

Outside of those two years where Kidd made the Finals on fringe 50 win teams in the W.O.A.T. version of the East what is there really to speak of?

Kidd was a highly flawed player he played for a really long time and was able to compile accolades and counting stats because of it...

Again you high as fukk right now this not even a debate Kidd>>>>>>>>Kyrie

Kidd>>>Dame

Kyrie?

 

[ISO]

Bullshyt, Oladipo as the #1 with a worst supporting cast took Bron's team to 7 the next year. Westbrook, Oladipo, Sabonis, Adams, Grant, Kanter, Robertson, Taj, McDermott is a decent roster that should be a tough out in the playoffs. The same Rockets that washed Russ's Thunder easily got blown off the court by the Patty Mills Spurs in the next series.

Up to that point Oladipo was low key considered a bust. What he did the next season is irrelevant. Oladipo soaked up game from Russy and he came back a completely different player the next season. He was shredded and had a completely revamped bag of offensive tricks. He also improvement from a biomechanic standpoint. It's why he won Most Improved Player. U cannot compare the Oladipo that played in OKC and Orlando to what he became in Indiana. That's disingenuous...

The Real-Life Diet of Victor Oladipo, the Pacers' Newly-Jacked Franchise Player
How Victor Oladipo is redefining his career through biomechanics
Victor Oladipo praises Russell Westbrook during career year: 'I learned so much from him'

Sabonis was a rookie dude averaged 6/3 on 39% FG, Adams and Kanter are solid rotational bigs and were arguably the second best players, Grant wasn't Grant from now he was just a slashing/cutting energy guy with defense, Roberson is trash dude is nothing but a defender he wasn't even defended beyond the arc and was Hack-a-Shaq'd in the playoffs huge liability.

That team was awful they were also 30th in 3PT%. Russy did what he did with no spacing had them playing at a near 50 win pace. He was literally going ape shyt night in and night out it was ridiculous.

The Jazz series was an even match-up. Jazz are a team take a look at win/loss record and league ranks that year on both ends. Donovan Mitchell wasn't your regular rookie dude is nice. Sure, getting outplayed some games by a rookie is a blemish I suppose but PG really shyt the bed with that 2 of 16 performance in a must win. It was Russell's chucking (more like a needed takeover) that got them back in that game too.

 

[Reggie]

Nah fukk yo list bruh,it’s no longer personal when you put it out in the open,Dame a dawg but he ain’t no top 10 PG of all time yet. Hell naw

fukk u back bruh. Its' no longer personal when i put it out in the open? What type of nonsense are you talking? And again i can have Dame on my top 10 list if i want and ain't a damn thing you can do to change that.

 

[ISO]

Again you high as fukk right now this not even a debate Kidd>>>>>>>>Kyrie

Kidd>>>Dame

Kyrie?

The Kidd dikk licking is hilarious

I love when players who retired not too long ago have their career looked at through rose-tinted lenses

 

[ISO]

I don't wanna hear no downplaying or slander of what Russy was doing in '17 at all...