Is Westbrook a Top 10 All-Time PG?
- Thread starter murksiderock
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I would expect his scoring volume to rise given he was in his prime and his minutes increased significantly in those series (40+ minutes per game), he was also the main offensive creator for his team. The box score looks good but the %’s weren’t great.
I guess he did what he had to do tho?
My post was also referring to Kidd’s career being looked at through rose-tinted lenses. This was the case even mid-to-late career it seems for a lot of the Coli’s 90’s favorites but in the modern era a lot of players aren’t getting their just due in their veteran years, that same level of respect just an observation I have that I could be exaggerating.
U can talk about Kidd’s prime but you also need to talk about how his career lowlights and weaknesses and limitations as a player and persona if that's what we're going to do for our modern players that's what I'm talking about.
For the accolades I already spoke on that. To me the most important skills a guard can have are the combo of efficient shot creation and playmaking. For that reason I rather have guys like Dame and Kyrie. The accolades are nice but we are comparing players across generations. I don’t see how Kidd is making All-NBA First Teams with Steph Curry in the league. The name dropping is disingenuous because Nash wasn’t Nash until Phoenix, Paul Pierce was a 3, Kobe and Mac were young guys in ‘99 and ‘00, a guy like Ray Allen was never really an All-NBA First Team type player. I would take Kidd over the Steve Francis, Stephon Marbury, Baron Davis, etc. of that era for an All-NBA team. I'm well aware he was well respected and seen as the consummate floor general in his time.
Like I said if we're going to critique our modern stars to a tee we should keep that same energy...
-Kidd was an inefficient player (career 40/35/78 splits), this was more than era he played for 20 years on different teams with different ensembles he just wasn't efficient
-He was known as Ason Kidd for a good chunk of his career
-Kidd was limited in the half court and ball dominant
-Kidd never anchored great offenses and his half court game was a big reason for that
-Kidd made the Finals but it was in the W.O.A.T. East with fringe 50 win teams on teams that were built around their defense I don't see how that can be used as a talking point of him being better than someone
-Kidd went 16-16 in playoff series
-Kidd's New Jersey teams with VC and RJ underachieved
-Kidd bumped heads with coaches, he was a coach killer
-Kidd had a lot of off the court drama from wife beating to the Toni Braxton thing that broke up the JJJ trio in Dallas
If Kidd's career were unfolding in present day the Coli based off the things above would judge him much more harshly...
If we threw a young Kidd in the league today I have a hard time seeing the Coli ranking him over Kyrie or Lillard...
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Davis had a season in the early 2000's chucking 9 threes at a 32% clip. Even if Russell shot more Davis had a green light so the analogy makes no sense to me dude was downplaying Russ in favor of the older player typical.
Controversy
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I would expect his scoring volume to rise given he was in his prime and his minutes increased significantly in those series (40+ minutes per game), he was also the main offensive creator for his team. The box score looks good but the %’s weren’t great.
I guess he did what he had to do tho?
My post was also referring to Kidd’s career being looked at through rose-tinted lenses. This was the case even mid-to-late career it seems for a lot of the Coli’s 90’s favorites but in the modern era a lot of players aren’t getting their just due in their veteran years, that same level of respect just an observation I have that I could be exaggerating.
U can talk about Kidd’s prime but you also need to talk about how his career lowlights and weaknesses and limitations as a player and persona if that's what we're going to do for our modern players that's what I'm talking about.
For the accolades I already spoke on that. To me the most important skills a guard can have are the combo of efficient shot creation and playmaking. For that reason I rather have guys like Dame and Kyrie. The accolades are nice but we are comparing players across generations. I don’t see how Kidd is making All-NBA First Teams with Steph Curry in the league. The name dropping is disingenuous because Nash wasn’t Nash until Phoenix, Paul Pierce was a 3, Kobe and Mac were young guys in ‘99 and ‘00, a guy like Ray Allen was never really an All-NBA First Team type player. I would take Kidd over the Steve Francis, Stephon Marbury, Baron Davis, etc. of that era for an All-NBA team. I'm well aware he was well respected and seen as the consummate floor general in his time.
Like I said if we're going to critique our modern stars to a tee we should keep that same energy...
-Kidd was an inefficient player (career 40/35/78 splits), this was more than era he played for 20 years on different teams with different ensembles he just wasn't efficient
-He was known as Ason Kidd for a good chunk of his career
-Kidd was limited in the half court and ball dominant
-Kidd never anchored great offenses and his half court game was a big reason for that
-Kidd made the Finals but it was in the W.O.A.T. East with fringe 50 win teams on teams that were built around their defense I don't see how that can be used as a talking point of him being better than someone
-Kidd went 16-16 in playoff series
-Kidd's New Jersey teams with VC and RJ underachieved
-Kidd bumped heads with coaches, he was a coach killer
-Kidd had a lot of off the court drama from wife beating to the Toni Braxton thing that broke up the JJJ trio in Dallas
If Kidd's career were unfolding in present day the Coli based off the things above would judge him much more harshly...
If we threw a young Kidd in the league today I have a hard time seeing the Coli ranking him over Kyrie or Lillard...
Jason Kidd is a top 10 PG all time, I'd argue he's top 7 or 8
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If you have him there that's cool I never said he wasn't.Jason Kidd is a top 10 PG all time, I'd argue he's top 7 or 8
I would rather Lillard or Irving though.
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murksiderock
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This is directly correlated with the overrating of Kevin Durant. They are together 8 years, think about the superlatives we've gotten in this and other threads about Russ, and match those with the hyperbolic statements we've heard about Durant on this same board:
•we've had muhfukkas verbatim call KD a "perfect" basketball player with no flaws
•we've routinely heard people hold Durant blameless for failing to win a title in OKC with Russ
•we've routinely heard dudes on here characterize Durant as having to "carry" Russ in OKC.....Durant had a fukking carry job in OKC
These are just three of the most repeated tropes, as I'm sure you've observed there's plenty more. So there's a direct correlation between how people talk about the two. And its some BS; there are some criticisms of Russ i agree with, as I've mentioned he's shown he can play better basketball without hawking triple doubles, both earlier in his career and last year in Houston, so I'm not really moved by the triple double shyt because I've seen him play better ball...
There's also validity of course to his tunnel vision and decision making in money time that I agree with. But this guy is a great, great basketball player overall and the characterizations of him as lesser than that are wack...
You're not exaggerating. Pre-merger guys and a chunk of guys drafted post-00 get held to a standard on here that guys drafted in the 80s and 90s don't, we see this shyt weekly here. It's one of the oddest things I've seen but it's consistent and telling of how much narrative drives group think on here----->but these the same cats that bytch and complain about "media" narratives while they throw around highly subjective and hyperbolic commentary all the time...
These dudes crazy and as I've said about other older era players, if Jason Kidd was playing today these dudes would not love him like that...
Jason Kidd is a top 10 PG all time, I'd argue he's top 7 or 8
Man hell no, this guy is overrated as shyt...
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Dog, I swear back in like '08 and '09, I remember Kidd and Garnett being highly respected vets already seen as legends. It wasn't as much of this tearing down bullshyt we see today.
Russy will be 33 this year and has done legendary shyt but is not being respected at all
Kidd if I had to project him to players today would be like a hybrid of Lonzo Ball and Draymond Green (would be a hell of a player) who happen to be two of the most hated on players on this site today
