Jokic is considered better than curry?

Primetime

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NBA is really deep talent wise. About 8 players I’d consider for top 5.
1. Giannis
2. Curry
3. Embiid
4. Jokic
5. Luka
6. KD
7. Lebron
8. Kawhi (if healthy)

Then add in AD who has top 5 talent. Or Harden if he can bounce back.
Yup. At this point i prefer just listing the top 8-10 that could be top 5 at any given point. The issue is there's no set criteria for what makes someone better than another player, esp once all this subjective, agenda-driven stuff comes into play.

Reg season-wise, statistically Jokic, Giannis, and Embiid are the kings. Their per-minute production/PER the past 2 years shyts on everyone. Playoff-wise... Kawhi was PER king in 2021; more efficient than KD in a similar # of games. Butler was king in 2022 followed by Giannis and Luka. But their teams were either injured or not good enough.. and no excuses is the understanding for years now.

But the no excuses and no context is what makes these lists inherently volatile. i.e. if LAC somehow found durability and wins the title next June, Kawhi will become top 2 or #1 in next year's ESPN/CBS/SI's rankings, by virtue of a team accolade.
 

Don Homer

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Nah, people were still saying KD had it and were hesitant to say Giannis was the best player. Guys like Stephen Jackson were on those talk shows the next day still not giving Giannis credit.
Cuz it’s Stephen jackson. Since the title, Giannis hasnt done anything to put him at number 1

It was 100% the 50 piece on the suns
 

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Cuz it’s Stephen jackson. Since the title, Giannis hasnt done anything to put him at number 1

It was 100% the 50 piece on the suns
Here's ESPN's same NBA players ranking from 2021: NBArank 2021: Where the final five check in, including LeBron, Giannis and KD

Don't act like it was across the board consensus Giannis was considered the best player after the title

And to address the second point, if Middleton wasn't injured in the Celtics series they might've gone back to back. Giannis avg like 33, 14, and 7, against the C's, the rest of the team just couldn't throw a ping pong ball in the ocean when it mattered.
 

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Jokic is currently better than Curry but it's still somewhat debatable. Biid and Luka being ranked above Curry is a no for me. I'd even put KD in either of those two spots and I'd personally take LeBron over Joel currently as well.
 
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To be honest, the debate of where Steph is ranked now is near-meaningless.

He's solidified a legitimate top-10 ever resume, and current player rankings is really beneath where he stands in the game. The same applies to Bron. As the more time goes on, I've come to look at these rankings as more of a discussion on what players can do to stamp their name in the history books, which if you've already done that, it doesn't really matter exactly where you're ranked against [current] players who're still trying to do that.
 

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My dark horse for MVP and "analytics" this year is KAT.

After seeing plenty of love Jokic got for being pass-first along with the emergence of Ant and D-Lo I think KAT is going to get his assist numbers up.

Not having to worry much on defense I think will free the guy up to take his offense to the next level on top of the 3-point and overall shooting ability.

Dude don't got to pass and turn his game into Jokic's, but KAT has racked up assists and shown good court vision before. The guy averaged nearly 4.5 assists with less talent.

Ant is about to go into his third year, probably going to be an all-star and that means plenty of buckets and opportunities for KAT to find him and get his own in the meantime. Three years of chemistry with Ant will probably show this year.

Remember, a big part of assists and playmaking are just about your ability to find your own shot and create shots for yourself which KAT does very well. KAT will find more mismatches this year too because of Gobert imo.

Again, I'm not going to say ultimate favorite for MVP but "dark horse" I don't think is a reach.
Nowhere near as simple as you're making it.
He's definitely better than current Bron and I'd argue KD as well
Bron ain't making the playoffs in the West with Aaron Gordon as his #2 that's for fukking sure
:mjlol:
 

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I agree with everything y’all said. Let me ask y’all something though..we all know Trae is limited on defense, but so are Ja, Luka, Dame, Jokic & others, but why is Trae the only one who’s defense is used against him?

If all these guys are liabilities on defense, how the fukk is a guy who led the league in total points and assists ranked lower than Ja & Luka?
1) There's degrees of mediocrity just as there's degrees of greatness.
2) Leading team success matters.

I know Trae is your superstar player but come on breh
 

murksiderock

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That's the thing:
You got to prove that you can carry at the highest level first, against the best defenses.
You got to prove you don't get rattled when the world is watching.
Every single game in the Finals is pretty much "clutch time".

People didn't want to give Curry credit for 2015, then no credit for 2017 nor 2018. Now they give him full credit for 2022 after carrying and winning against real postseason teams, rightfully so.

To the first paragraph:

Never in NBA history has winning the championship been the qualifier to being considered best player alive. This is some 2010s era shyt, this "can't put him there if he hasn't won it all"...

Your game and performance is what gets you in the conversation...

To your second paragraph:

Steph won the MVP in 2015 and most people have been saying he deserved that FMVP since he followed up that year with what he did in '16, don't do that. He's always gotten his respect for '15...

The Durant years, sure there was some push and pull, but we always said that was Steph's team even if we didn't all think he was the best player on the team...

Giannis & Curry are 1-2

Personally, I have Joker 3, Luka 4, and Biidy Biid/Tatum at 5

Denver will win 55+ games this upcoming season but they need to make a run. I expect Joker's production to dip a bit but he needs to make it up on def.

Luka is special but he needs to become a Paul Pierce in 08 level defender

Tatum's postseason success & durability is why I can't outright say Biidy Biid should be ranked higher than him

Putting Tatum over Embiid is egregious...

Like I said Curry answered a lot of questions after Winning this last Championship. He affected both ends of the floor. Made key defensive stops/steals, rebounded and he didn't even have to do half of that. He's right there with Giannis. But Jokic is in the top 5 though he is carrying a bad team.

Giannis has separated himself from the pack. Steph has the strongest argument of the rest as #2 but there is no great separation between the 2nd, and about 8th, players in basketball right now. They are all deserving...
 
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