Lebron or Jokic: Who’s the better passer?

[Cladyclad]

Bron was in Cleveland playing Orlando. My cuz, a guy and myself was watching the game At a restaurant. Mind u this was a time when I did not think highly of Kang. But he was at the top of the key in a standstill position with a defender in his face. My mans did a no look chest to Big Z through like 2 dudes. All three of us in unison said goddamn and just looked at each other like “did he just do that” lol

the man special. I missed out on so much by hating on him for years smh

 

[BigE214]

Jokic drops frequent finesse dimes but Lebron is the better passer, hands down

 

[CarbonBraddock]

easily lebron. the only reason the other guy looks so good is because most of his shyt seems to come off double teams, and he is big enough to find the proper open person to pass to. all them passes jokic makes are elementary shyt most pgs could do. he just gets more credit because a center usually sucks at passing.

 

[Ben.]

I'm going Bron in terms of difficulty in the passes they make/have made but Jokic is close

 

[NormanConnors]

Bron easily,

cats are fooled by the fact Bron makes it look too easy

 

[Paper Boi]

Bron easily,

cats are fooled by the fact Bron makes it look too easy

it's exactly this.

i swear dude has a third eye or something.

some those no look passes look effortless. that's some serious court awareness.

i swear if he doesn't have a third eye he must have some evolved 40/40 vision or some shyt.


and even just because you see it then that's not gonna make the ball actually go there. just all around top 3 passer of all time, if not the best.

 

[Biscayne]

I'm going with Jokic, simply because he's able to make passes from greater angles due to his height, and relies less on physical aid (running and jumping). I still don't think he's shown enough where he can run an offense better than Bron though.

LeBron was doing just as many angular matrix bullet-bending, Supreme Mathemtics passes as Jokic. That very last pass In the 2nd YT highlight reel OP posted, where LeBron zipped the ball through the tiniest window past Heywoods ear to Big Z, has to be one of the greatest basketball passes ever. Teeny, Tiny window and he zips it in there better than a QB zips a football.

 

[Flex Grossman]

Both are in my top 5. Passing is one of those things that you can’t really fully judge unless you watch tons of full games to see how they set thinks up to manipulate defenses, so I only include players in the last 20 or so years in that top 5. I’m sure magic and Larry would be in it, but I just don’t have enough info.

jokic, bron, CP3, Nash, Kidd. Those are the 5. Rondo is just on the outside looking in and Luka will probably get there in a couple years.

most of jokers best passes are from his first year and a half as a starter with the gallinari/faried/chandler team. He would make me literally laugh out loud once or twice a game with some of the shyt he’d try. He gets to feeling himself with passes like Steph does with his shot, and he’ll just got to this fukk it point where he’ll try wild shyt. Like that over the head pass in game 7.

this is too tough to call so I’ll give it to bron on longevity and body of work.

 

[Rell84shots]

Lebron and it's not even close, and it's not an overreaction to compare his passing abilities to Magic.

 

[ISO]

Passes like this are why I think he's better than Bron. The degree of ball manipulation is Neo in the Matrix type shyt.

He faked his flat footed jump shot lol Bron easily got better passes than that.

A lot of Jokic’s assists are like Draymond where he catches off the roll sucking in the defense and then hits the open man.

Jokic=best passing center ever
LeBron=best passing forward ever

 

[Left.A1]

All I Know Is That This nikka Jokic Had Better Deliver All Series Long The Way He's Being Thrusted Into The Spotlight... Its All Good To Be The "Loveable Underrated Underdog" But When Expectations Hit... Thats When The Cream Rises...

 

[Imyremeshaw]

Not ready to say Jokic is a better passer than Sabonis just yet

Thank you, I been thinking that since all this Jokic praise...

 

[Hey_zeus]

Pure ability is Bron
Effectiveness is Jokic

 

[Biscayne]

You're mistaking Jokic driving his team's offense more for running a better offense. More =/= better. Jokic needs to prove it over a longer period of time, and he needs to prove it against more defenses. He's only 25. Bron wasn't who he is now at 25 either. He has 10 more years of experience, adapting to different eras, and breaking down more defenses. Nobody in the history of the game can run an offense like Bron.

But passing, as a standalone, Jokic has him beat. I don't expect folks to pick him because they only started paying attention to the Nuggets this postseason, but I've seen half a decade's worth of play of his to say he's better.

I posted this in another thread:

"Denver's eFG% with Jokic on the floor - 57%
Denver's eFG% without Jokic on the floor - 44% (which would dead-last out of all playoff teams)
Denver has the lowest contest-shot rate directly off Jokic's passes (open shots he generates) - 12% lower Doncic, and 17% lower than LeBron
Denver has the highest FG% in the paint with Jokic on the floor.

His passing literally creates more open looks than anyone else in the entire league."

LeBron can make higher degree of difficulty passes to players who seem all but covered. So many bron passes have been made it past ears, through legs, under defenders arms, within inches of defenders fingertips, and they all land perfectly in his teammates shooting pockets or just inches ahead of a defender. Let a defensive rotation be a split second late and that’s another LeBron assist from the top of the key or to the other side of the court.

Why is it foolish though? Jokic is basically a 7ft PG. He's not your typical center, who just makes the odd pass whenever gets the ball. He literally runs the offense, which has never been done before in the history of the game. You've had the likes of Walton, Sabonis, Pau etc throughout history who have had actions run through them, but they've always had a lead guard/ball-handler who runs the offense. Since we're now in this positionless era, and nobody has traditional roles anymore, it's birthed someone like Jokic who's by conventional wisdom a center, but plays like a PG. This is why I hope we end up abandoning positions and the praxis of them because they're no longer relevant to how the game is played.

And the funny thing is, Jokic is basically LeBron in the passing/playmaking/BBIQ respect. A fat, taller, Euro version.

This should give you an indication of just how involved he is on offense -

LeBron is also playing with an elite passer in Rondo. LeBron on Denver as the primary playmaker, and with a scorer like Murray, LBJ would be getting more touches and passing players open. But LeBron would also share in scoring duties so he may not rack up the assist totals he’d be capable of. It’s clear the offense flows through Jokic. But LeBron on a similar team is getting just as many touches and controlling the offense and contributing to the eFG% of the team just as much as Jokic currently is, if not more. Teams are hesitant to double LeBron for that very reason. Because they know he can make them pay, for a split second of undisciplined defense.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

What a weird thread.

This is like asking, "Who is the better shooter, Jokic or KD?"

Jokic is a great passer for a center, arguably the best ever (only Sabonis compares). But LeBron is one of the best passers ever at any position. Jokic's talent, consistency, and volume don't even begin to touch Bron's. Bron can easily make every pass that Jokic ever has, while there are dozens of passes that Bron has thrown which Jokic could never match.

Jokic got vision that’s incomparable at a center, Bron got vision that’s damn near incomparable to anyone. Dude in the top tier of facilitators period

tjis is really similar to the Ben-Bron debate, in that Ben is an amazing floor general for his height but he doesn’t possess some of those supernatural abilities that a tier 1 PG does

LeBron James and there's no shame in that. LeBron is one of the best passers of all time, Jokic is up there to for his position.

Exactly.

Pure ability is Bron
Effectiveness is Jokic

Where do you get that at all?

GM's consistently say that LeBron has the best IQ in the game and sees openings before they happen. Players consistently rave about how LeBron always gets them the ball exactly where they want it. This year the Lakers shot 39% from three off of passes from Bron and just 32% the rest of the time. LeBron guided brilliant offensive play on four different squads while the Nuggets look great at times (like in the 2nd halves of the last three games) but are inconsistent as hell and often go through long ugly droughts where they can't get shyt going at all.

LeBron's worst assist season ever is better than Jokic's career average. Jokic averaged 7.3apg in his career best year, LeBron has surpassed that 6 of the last 8 years and was damn near 50% higher this year.

I just don't get what objective measure would make Jokic's passes "more effective" than Bron's.