Lets be real, Jay only made DOA cause he was bitter Ron Brownz was shouting out etherboy

[CarltonJunior]

Legit the HHH of rap. Longevity and politics have made him a household name, but he never was a draw.

 

[Mac Casper]

I'm also noticing that Jay Z sympathizers have a penchant for omitting DMX from the discussion entirely

However DMX offered a brand of music that is single handedly responsible for offering an alternative to the shiny suit era. He brought aggression back in the game when the game needed it. Exhibiting success in a route that puts him against the grain certainly represents a strong level of influence. Also I don't know about your but I was a lot more exciting at that time to hear DMX on the radio than Jay Z - that's me personally though, I don't use that as a statement to make my case (which I will get to later)

And as my memory recalls more I remember to note that there's absolutely no question that Ja Rule was having more radio success than Jay Z during this early millennial years . .those records were formulaic and not my cup of tea, I wouldn't be able to pick out one of those songs from the other. If I were to map out a trajectory of the songs' energy they would all consist of verses with an a voice that was akin to the cookie monster and a chorus from Ashanti/ So I wouldn't be opposed to an assertion that his brand didn't lend itself to being an influential member of hip-hop. DMX however . .

You know how we can show pure evidence of how overstated Jay Z's legacy was? He went from being the typical hot rapper to automatically having "legend" status overnight. Where did he earn that? By being around? I wouldn't try to undermine his status but I also don't appreciate a false narrative and inflated legacy. The most glaring misnomer you have to account for is the lack of discussion of DMX in top 10 discussions.So Jay Z is GOAT but the guy who was hotter than him, had a bigger wave, bigger singles and arguably a better catalog isn't even in the top 10 discussion?

Hmm why isn't DMX not receiving the same reverence or at least a proportional amount?

Oh I know because Jay Z's PR move to inflate his legacy didn't include bringing up the status of any of the rappers who were comparatively hot during their peaks . . so you have glaring hole here

Let's do this again - DMX, same time frame. Hotter. More record sold. Bigger hits. Arguably a better catalog

but yet we still don't see any inflated status for DMX

How does that work?

Perhaps Jay Z's status is inflated beyond the market value of his brand in the sense that if we commit something to text it'll eventually show up on Google and inevitably be associated with his status. Now if that is the case then we also must assume that you've bought into this. Let's get some other opinions on both sides to be sure.

I never seen him more than just another rapper who was around at the time, so surely you can see my concern when overnight people are inflating his status. I remember him headlining the Rock Da Mic tour over 50 Cent but 50 Cent was the name that was used to promote the concert. Everyday leading up to that concert the radio was talking about 50 Cent tickets . . despite Jay Z being the actual headliner. Do you know what I mean?


What I've just outlined for you is something that needs immediate explanation . . I would consider this to be on the level of $3.5 trillion dollars going missing from the Pentagon. You know? Something isn't right and it's looking funny in the light. I would really like a solid explanation from you. I'm completely open to accepting some aspect I may be overlooking

#WallyWisdom

 

[Mac Casper]

Legit the HHH of rap. Longevity and politics have made him a household name, but he never was a draw.

I've never seen a better explanation. HHH was always at least second fiddle to someone whether it be The Rock, Stone Cold or even Shawn Michaels

I'm trying to go along with this assertion from @koven that Jay Z was at the top in 1999 but then I think about it and DMX is there and you have to at least acknowledge that he has an arguable claim to it. That's bare minimum.. Now if koven would be so kind as to post the top numbers from 1999 rap albums we can look at it by the numbers since the assertion is that Jay Z was the #1 rapper at the time, with a definitive value to pop culture then surely numbers would reflect this. It also intrigues that the argument he chose is based in his stature at the time and there is no attempt made to vouch for his catalog, so is he saying that being debatably the top rapper for a year (an album cycle) takes the place of excellence and simply being around long enough gives you a claim to greatness? I don't know what that says about our genre if these are the standards that you attribute to it.

And on a smaller level I see the same thing happening with Fabolous where now people are trying to insert him into the status of being a great . . . because he was around somewhat? Is this a New York thing?

I'm just trying to get a better understanding of the standards and criteria that you're placing a premium on so I can see how you have him in that spot. I'm sure in your head you've done all the calculations but I just want to see it on paper

 

[swerve]

Wally keep saying the same shyt I've been thinking for years. Props to you.

And Tom Ford had over $1 billion in sales annually by 2013

 

[Mac Casper]

All I'm asking for is that you tell me how you're seeing and what standards you're applying where you get these results

 

[Mac Casper]

The pretext behind this post: I asked what year was Jay Z the most popular rapper. After being told that I was "rewriting history" for not acknowledging Jay Z as the #1 rapper in 1999. In response I put all of my thoughts about 1999 aside and asked him to just simply provide the numbers for the top selling albums in rap that year. After he dipped out the backdoor and never returned I decided to look into it myself and see that Jay Z was #5 in 1999

Now this bothers me because I'm offering you an open mind to assess your standards and the facts you have to offer to support your position without prejudice and then I go, hmmm . . why isn't he showing me the numbers. Certainly that's what he means when he says that Jay Z was unquestionably the #1 guy in popularity, then I look up the numbers myself and

How do are you trying to tell me he is #1 in 1999 when he's #5 in first week sales . . . behind Nas at #4, posthumous Biggie at #3 (who wasn't even around to promote the album, then you have Dr. Dre and DMX (just as I said)

Now I'm kind of mad because I trusted you with an open mind and you're trying to pull the wool over my eyes, you literally said I'm rewriting history and yet the numbers confirm that you're trying to speak something into existence. Do you understand how rare of an opportunity this was, I was going to let you speak your piece, I was giving you such an open mind that I even put aside my memories of DMX being on top that year . . I was willing to put my own perception aside




I feel like I just got ripped off at a carnival

 

[big bun]

Eminem was respected and looked at as the Great white rapper but at the time Jay-Z was considered the best rapper in the game and probably the coolest dude in pop culture.





you can try to rewrite history all you want to prove whatever point you're trying to make but I was there. We felt his impact.

Jay-Z was what Drake is now.

Wrong. I was there, too. At no point was Jigs considered the best rapper and at the coolest dude in pop culture. That shyt is just laughable. And no matter how much it makes me want to throw up when I say this, but Jigs never was and never will be what Aubrey is no matter how hard he tries. Jigs is 50 trying to be Aubrey and appeal to Aubrey's demographic, but he's too flabby and ugly.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Wrong. I was there, too. At no point was Jigs considered the best rapper and at the coolest dude in pop culture. That shyt is just laughable. And no matter how much it makes me want to throw up when I say this, but Jigs never was and never will be what Aubrey is no matter how hard he tries. Jigs is 50 trying to be Aubrey and appeal to Aubrey's demographic, but he's too flabby and ugly.

There was way stiffer competition back then

 

[big bun]

There was way stiffer competition back then

Then can you explain how the supposed greatest rapper back then isn't on top now?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Then can you explain how the supposed greatest rapper back then isn't on top now?

You cant expect anyone in any genre to stay on top forever

 

[big bun]

You cant expect anyone in any genre to stay on top forever

 

[Lucky Me]

not at all,..

in 2008, like mid second to third quarter first name last name dropped.
which would be the official futuristic is solidified as actually existing as a deviation from the tpain model records.

plus, in relation to the jumping the shark of weezy on prostitute flange as well.
which was made as early as:
2006 or 2007.
give or take the actual first official appearance of the record, even if it was a mixtape exclusive addition before an actual weezy mixtape addition.

ain't i dropped before the complete swag change for yung la last quarter of 2008.
i remember that,....and if you check this should be accurrate.

in january of 2009, black boy white boy dropped.
which was like the next level before the swag became what it was.

jay came out with doa in the summer of 2oo9, or second quarter
which was six months or so later.

last quarter, of 2009 yung la dropped suntrust.
so, doa really only rocked like three months and was not hot as far as what swag would be come in that era incomparison to dro and yung la then, at all.

then, later the next year kanye dropped his lil wayne autotune meets john doe of the ummah bites for mbdtf.
thus clowning jay's whole shyt on the same label.
whereas mbdtf is actually a blueprint design of part of what these guys wanna be or do as well as future dropping a year before in 2009, last mid quarter with dirty sprite.

kanye mbdtf dropped in late nov 2010.
while racks dropped last quarter of 2009.


so jay never had any effect at all on doa and it also was stagnate stale as well.


art barr

bro why the fukk do u keep saying Racks came out in 2009? It came out in 2011.

Racks" is a song by American hip hop recording artist YC, originally from his mixtape Got Racks. The song features vocals from fellow rapper Future and produced by Sonny Digital and Student. The song, which serves as his debut single, was released for digital download in the United States on May 20, 2011.[1] The song also peaked on No. 43 within the top fifty in the Billboard Hot 100 and stayed on the charts for 17 weeks.

 

[Harry B]

Dudes really don't listen to music, the song is dissing rappers for all acting the same, lacking realness and trying to sound like T-Pain (rappers who were out then like 50, Jim Jones and on).
It wasn't meant to try to end auto-tune, even with his ego I don't think Jay thinks that he could stop what was on the come up. Specially since his main man was the main proponent of the usage (Kanye West). In the interview that followed he even said that he fukks with auto-tune but that the game needs balance.

Rap fans always need simple literal bars for them to understand shyt .

Listen to the lyrics don't just read the title of the song.

 

[Harry B]

And running with jim jones. jayz a blackballing fakkit, how you bitter about dude that made the beat just cause you got bodied

Dude used to run with murders, black ballin a dude for being disrespectful is the softest shyt he can do. And no he didn't dedicate his whole first single, and shoot videos with legendary actors for Ron Brownz, lol.

 

[Yoda]

Dudes really don't listen to music, the song is dissing rappers for all acting the same, lacking realness and trying to sound like T-Pain.
It wasn't meant to try to end auto-tune, even with his ego I don't think Jay thinks that he could stop what was on the come up. Specially since his main man was the main proponent of the usage (Kanye West). In the interview that followed he even said that he fukks with auto-tune but that the game needs balance.

Rap fans always need simple literal bars for them to understand shyt .

Listen to the lyrics don't just read the title of the song.

on sum HIP HOP IS DEAD shyt.... he wasnt talking bout the music, he was talking about the buisness....