Living wage advocates, how are restaruant owners supposed to deal with being squeezed like this?

[ill]

So this isnt really about economics anymore, its about social engineering right? Incentives, making harder working citizens and punishing the lazy ones?

Its all tied together actually. I mean, most people in here are caping for MW workers while completely ignoring the middle class. You're talking about raising the floor for MW but theres no talk about that same floor being raised for the middle class. Are we just magically believing in trickle UP economics now or something? We just saw the problem that a double up in MW can cause with that Gravity company in Seattle. The entry level people are ecstatic that they are making "bank" now. The mid-level workers and some senior level are pissed off and have left the company because they didn't see any (or a comparable) pay bump. Is that fair? Is that deserved? We're talking about rewarding "hard workers" right? Well who worked harder...the entry level guy thats being handed $15/hr or the middle level guy that just worked for 4 years to get his pay up to 20/hr? Incentives are put in place to give people rewards for being better, more educated, or more skilled. You get a cert, you get a pay bump. So yes, social engineering is most def part of it and needed IMO. Why would you work harder if theres no reward for doing so?

 

[Tate]

who the fukk are you?


What are you doing to increase the 98% of jobs that aren't minimum wage?

Someone who's not 4k in the red

And we reach another one of your inane stats that mean nothing in context.1/4 of the private labor force works for less than $10 an hour. The reason only 2% works for the federal minimum wage is because many states have moderately higher minimums, and many people who work minimum wage jobs have enough time on the job or previous experience to earn $8, $9 an hour instead of $7.25. A minimum wage increase raises all these people's wage.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Youve quoted me like 7 times bruh. Im not interested im having a discussion with you.

Too bad. Bad talking points will be disputed.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Someone who's not 4k in the red

E-points are useless to me.

And we reach another one of your inane stats that mean nothing in context.1/4 of the private labor force works for less than $10 an hour.

2% of the working population makes minimum wage.

and the MW isn't $10/hr.

You're being incredibly deceptive here

The reason only 2% works for the federal minimum wage is because many states have moderately higher minimums, and many people who work minimum wage jobs have enough time on the job or previous experience to earn $8, $9 an hour instead of $7.25. A minimum wage increase raises all these people's wage.

No, it doesn't. And this is what you keep ignoring.

I support a MW increase...but not to $15.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Its all tied together actually. I mean, most people in here are caping for MW workers while completely ignoring the middle class. You're talking about raising the floor for MW but theres no talk about that same floor being raised for the middle class. Are we just magically believing in trickle UP economics now or something? We just saw the problem that a double up in MW can cause with that Gravity company in Seattle. The entry level people are ecstatic that they are making "bank" now. The mid-level workers and some senior level are pissed off and have left the company because they didn't see any (or a comparable) pay bump. Is that fair? Is that deserved? We're talking about rewarding "hard workers" right? Well who worked harder...the entry level guy thats being handed $15/hr or the middle level guy that just worked for 4 years to get his pay up to 20/hr? Incentives are put in place to give people rewards for being better, more educated, or more skilled. You get a cert, you get a pay bump. So yes, social engineering is most def part of it and needed IMO. Why would you work harder if theres no reward for doing so?

It seems to me that a lot of people are captivated by the plight of people who are perpetually not doing enough for themselves.

 

[Tate]

E-points are useless to me.

2% of the working population makes minimum wage.

and the MW isn't $10/hr.

You're being incredibly deceptive here


No, it doesn't. And this is what you keep ignoring.

I support a MW increase...but not to $15.

I mean, you have 60,000 posts. You've been here for over three years. You seem to take it seriously.

Disprove anything I said.

Explain how raising the minimum wage to $10, $12, or $15 an hour doesn't raise the wage of a man making $8 an hour. Are you anticipating widespread civil disobedience?

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

I mean, you have 60,000 posts. You've been here for over three years. You seem to take it seriously.

I don't care about negs. You do.

Disprove anything I said.

Your percentages are wrong

Explain how raising the minimum wage to $10, $12, or $15 an hour doesn't raise the wage of a man making $8 an hour. Are you anticipating widespread civil disobedience?

I support a raise to $10 FEDERALLY.

States and cities add to that

Stop ignoring this.

$15 in Seattle IS NOT $15 in Biloxi.

 

[Broke Wave]

Its all tied together actually. I mean, most people in here are caping for MW workers while completely ignoring the middle class. You're talking about raising the floor for MW but theres no talk about that same floor being raised for the middle class. Are we just magically believing in trickle UP economics now or something? We just saw the problem that a double up in MW can cause with that Gravity company in Seattle. The entry level people are ecstatic that they are making "bank" now. The mid-level workers and some senior level are pissed off and have left the company because they didn't see any (or a comparable) pay bump. Is that fair? Is that deserved? We're talking about rewarding "hard workers" right? Well who worked harder...the entry level guy thats being handed $15/hr or the middle level guy that just worked for 4 years to get his pay up to 20/hr? Incentives are put in place to give people rewards for being better, more educated, or more skilled. You get a cert, you get a pay bump. So yes, social engineering is most def part of it and needed IMO. Why would you work harder if theres no reward for doing so?

Interesting assesment. So according to you, theres a direct link, or at least should be a direct link between, hard work and good decisions, and pay?

So how do you feel about executive bonuses being tens of millions of dollars? Golden parachutes for people who crash companies? Should we cap executive pay? Or should this fairness doctrine only apply to lower income people? Why dont we socially engineer execs?

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Interesting assesment. So according to you, theres a direct link, or at least should be a direct link between, hard work and good decisions, and pay?

Look at it like this:

So how do you feel about executive bonuses being tens of millions of dollars?

High risk, high reward. Execs get fired more frequently than low level employees if you can believe it.

Golden parachutes for people who crash companies?

You gonna make it illegal? Good luck

Should we cap executive pay?

Thus limiting the recruitment of good talent

Or should this fairness doctrine only apply to lower income people? Why dont we socially engineer execs?

Start your own company and payment schedule.

This isn't Germany.

 

[Broke Wave]

Look at it like this:

High risk, high reward. Execs get fired more frequently than low level employees if you can believe it.

You gonna make it illegal? Good luck Thus limiting the recruitment of good talent


Start your own company and payment schedule.

This isn't Germany.

I dont wanna put u on ignore breh, but I already respecfully told you not to quote me. I am not interested in having a racist conversation about social engineering.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

I've seen a couple stories recently where restaurants hike wages and prices and tell customers no tipping.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/24/b...ants-say-no-to-tips-yes-to-higher-prices.html


As Minimum Wages Rise, Restaurants Say No to Tips, Yes to Higher Prices


By PATRICIA COHEN AUG. 23, 2015

Photo

The Walrus and the Carpenter, a restaurant in Seattle, added an automatic 20 percent gratuity after a minimum-wage increase. CreditMatthew Ryan Williams for The New York Times
Continue reading the main storyShare This Page

• the tyranny of tipping, but like a love affair gone bad, it has proved difficult to quit.
  
  Now, prompted by a spurt of new minimum wage proposals in major cities, an expanding number of restaurateurs are experimenting with no-tipping policies as a way to manage rising labor costs.
  
  Here in Seattle, where the first stage of a $15-an-hour minimum wage law took effect in April, Ivar’s seafood restaurants switched to an all-inclusive menu. By raising prices 21 percent and ending tipping, Bob C. Donegan, the president and co-owner, calculated he could increase everyone’s wages.
  
  “We saw there was a fundamental inequity in our restaurants where the people who worked in the kitchen were paid about half as much as the people who worked with customers in front of the house,” Mr. Donegan said.
  
  Nearby, the Walrus and the Carpenter instituted a compulsory 20 percent service charge. At Manos Nouveau and Sous Beurre, both in San Francisco, the menu prices include tips and taxes. Dirt Candy, an upscale eatery on the Lower East Side of Manhattan, tacks on a 20 percent administrative fee.
  
  Photo
  
  
  
  A check includes 20% gratuity at The Walrus and The Carpenter.CreditMatthew Ryan Williams for The New York Times
  Amanda Cohen, the owner of Dirt Candy, said she had fielded a flood of phone calls from other restaurants asking how her no-tipping policy was working.
  
  “I think that restaurants will have to do this,” said Ms. Cohen, who pays servers at Dirt Candy $25 an hour, well above the $7.50 for tipped workers that will go into effect in New York at the end of the year. “How else do you compensate for this extra money you’ll have to pay?”
  
  Like many owners, Ms. Cohen has long wanted to close the yawning earnings gap between those who prepare the food and those who serve it. Tips are not shared with the kitchen staff, whereas the revenue from certain types of surcharges and higher menu prices can be distributed to everyone.
  
  Restaurateurs tick off a long list of reasons for being drawn to the idea. In some cities like New York, where tipping is subject to a confusing welter of federal, state and local regulations and tax laws, eliminating it would simplify bookkeeping. Managers say it would also allow them to better calibrate wages to reward employees based on the length of their service and the complexity of their jobs.
  
  Several also cited research showing that diners tend to tip black servers less and that the system can encourage sexual harassment of women. @DEAD7
  
  Still, many fear a backlash from their customers and servers.
  
  Although mandatory service charges are common around the globe, restaurant tipping is deeply ingrained in the American psyche. Owners worry that potential diners will see significantly higher prices without realizing that they include gratuities. Restaurateurs also worry their best servers will leave.
  
  “The tipped culture is still what draws many people into our industry,” said Christin Fernandez, a spokeswoman at the National Restaurant Association. While the association estimates that the median hourly earnings for tipped servers are between $16 and $22, waiters at high-end restaurants can earn much more.
  
  Chelsea Krumpler, a waitress at Manos Nouveau in San Francisco, said that many waiters she knows were skeptical of her $25-an-hour wage and no tips. But she says she is earning as much as before with no worries about slow nights.
  
  “It’s a little more secure,” said Ms. Krumpler, who has worked as a waitress for seven years. The policy has also drawn the staff closer together. “It’s more of a family,” she said.
  
  Although the no-tipping idea is generating a lot of discussion, the number of restaurants that have signed on is still tiny, and they tend to cluster near the higher end of the price spectrum.
  
  Most are adopting a wait-and-see attitude.
  
  “We don’t want to jump on the trend,” said Akop Paronyan, the general manager of E&O Kitchen and Bar in San Francisco.
  
  With further mandated wage increases scheduled, Mr. Paronyan said the restaurant does need to be prepared. He is researching a hybrid model, where guests might be charged a mandatory 10 percent service charge and then encouraged to add a 5 percent to 10 percent gratuity.
  
  Brian Keyser, the owner of Casellula restaurant in Midtown Manhattan, would prefer to end tipping but does not think his staff members or his diners are ready to accept it.
  
  Now he must contend with a minimum wage for tipped workers that is rising in New York. That means giving his servers a $2.50-an-hour raise — even if they are already pulling in about $25 an hour in tips. “I have a kitchen full of people making far, far less than that, and I would love to give them that money, but I can’t,” Mr. Keyser said. @Swavy Karl Marx
  
  For many industry veterans, the business model is changing at such a rapid clip that they are not certain how to respond.
  
  When Daniel Patterson first started working as a chef in the early 1980s, he said, labor used to account for about a third of total costs, and owners could enjoy a 10 percent to 20 percent profit. Now, as a partner in five San Francisco Bay Area restaurants, Mr. Patterson says labor costs eat up about 40 percent to 45 percent of the budget. At the same time, rent costs are skyrocketing. @Camile.Bidan
  
  “Even a good restaurant doing a lot of business that’s popular on every level, is bringing 2 percent or 1.5 percent to the bottom line,” he said. “It’s like a not-for-profit.”
  
  Coi, Mr. Patterson’s two-Michelin-star restaurant, has had all-inclusive pricing since it opened in 2006. He tried the same strategy when he opened Aster in the Mission District a few months ago, and quickly realized it was not going to work.
  
  “I really believe in that model, but our customers didn’t want it,” Mr. Patterson said, because they thought it was too expensive. “It’s about perception,” he said. “It’s not just about the dollars you’re spending, but what you think you’re spending.” @Ill
  
  The next phase of the minimum wage increase in Seattle is pushing Brian Canlis, a co-owner of the upscale Canlis restaurant, to consider a pricing system that includes tips for 2016.
  
  “I’ve got to have a hierarchy of pay,” Mr. Canlis said. He employs 96 workers to serve six meals a week. If the dishwasher earns $15 an hour, then the line cook needs to earn at least $18, he said. And then what about the sous chef, and the waiters? “There’s a cascading effect,” he said. @JahFocus CS
  
  At the Walrus and the Carpenter, the owner Renee Erickson has been adjusting her no-tipping experiment. Although she originally wanted to adopt an all-inclusive menu, she “worried we weren’t going to have the opportunity to explain why our prices were so much higher than the restaurant right next door.” @Broke Wave
  
  Instead, she added an 18 percent service charge. But it did not generate enough money to cover the added labor costs. So she bumped the charge up to 20 percent and shrank the owners’ share. @Domingo Halliburton
  
  As the weeks went by, she and her partner kept adjusting the percentage that went to the kitchen workers. To get the staff on board, she decided to let everyone see the payroll spreadsheets, so they could understand how the money was being allocated.
  
  “We’ve gotten a lot of great support and feedback,” she said. And at two new restaurants Ms. Erickson is opening there will also be no tips.
  
  At Ivar’s, eliminating tipping has been a success, said Mr. Donegan, the chief executive — thanks in part to the summer tourist season and a booming economy. Since the policy went into effect four months ago, wages have risen between $3 and $12 an hour, he said, with the lowest-paid worker earning $15 an hour. Everyone, including part-timers, has health insurance and a 401(k) retirement plan.
  
  The No. 1 complaint from customers? The prohibition on tips. So while the menu still states that prices include service, the credit card slips now have a line that reads: “If you INSIST on leaving a tip, write it her

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

I dont wanna put u on ignore breh, but I already respecfully told you not to quote me. I am not interested in having a racist conversation about social engineering.

Racist? WHO BROUGHT UP RACE?!?!

What are you talking about

 

[ill]

Interesting assesment. So according to you, theres a direct link, or at least should be a direct link between, hard work and good decisions, and pay?

So how do you feel about executive bonuses being tens of millions of dollars? Golden parachutes for people who crash companies? Should we cap executive pay? Or should this fairness doctrine only apply to lower income people? Why dont we socially engineer execs?

Yes, for 99% of the population there is a direct link between hard work, good decisions, and being well paid. The 1% are hedge fund babies, those that inherited their wealth, or the one in a million that makes it from poverty to riches. Hard work and good decisions don't guarantee success but they do drastically increase your probability for success.

I have no problem with excessive executive pay. Thats determined by the Board of Directors that represent the shareholders interests. The BOD are the only ones that can/should complain about pay. If they feel they are paying their executive too much, they'll slash his pay or his job. Same applies to golden parachutes. I personally don't really support giving someone millions for fukking up my equity position, but thats where the board comes in. Enough shareholder rage can replace board members and the interests that they bring. It takes a LOT to manage a big corporation. Its not easy and the pressure is immense. To even get the opportunity to be placed in that position means that you've done a lot of work to get there. Sure, theres the outliers like a CEO retiring and letting his son take over or something along those lines but for the most part the people being offered CEO positions have earned them. With great responsibility comes great pay. I own a small business and am a partner in another business. If someone told me that my pay was capped I'd laugh in their face. I built this up and I will reap every single benefit from it. Same with the CEO just in a diff environment. They usually busted their asses and put in the time to get to that spot. Why give anything up?

To be blunt, lower income people have almost no power. When you rely on a company, government, or someone else for your well-being then you are not in a position to make rules or make moves. You are at the mercy of those higher up. As a CEO, the only people above you are the BOD so thats the only risk to your well-being. Thats why everyone strives to build wealth and power in a capitalist society. When you have your own wealth or can provide work for yourself, then you are "free" to do whatever you want. If you rely on a corporation for your paycheck, you'll NEVER have true freedom. Money, power, respect is the key to life.

 

[88m3]

@Ill aren't the people that make minimum wage middle class considering household income is what 40-50k in the US?

 

[ill]

@Ill aren't the people that make minimum wage middle class considering household income is what 40-50k in the US?

I don't think so. They are lower class IMO. MW is about $7 so thats 15k annually. Even if it were 15/hr thats still only 32k or so annually. I wouldn't say thats middle class, at least not in any populated areas.

Edit: You said household. So double each number. It would still be lower class for $7/hr. It would be middle class at 15/hr. Though if the baseline is now 15/hr, I think the median number to be in the middle class would rise as well thereby wiping out whatever class gains were made. This would also dilute the current middle class.