Living wage advocates, how are restaruant owners supposed to deal with being squeezed like this?
- Thread starter Camile.Bidan
- Start date
Misanthrope
None of the above '16
That's not a fair comparison. Gravity went to a $70,000/year salaried minimum. That's $35/hour, 40 hours a week, 50 weeks a year, not the $10-15 people advocate for.
Also this entire argument ignores the fact that many workers are not allowed to work forty hours a week. Fully 18% of workers work less than 35 hours/week, and those part-time workers average 25.9 hours/week.
Ratio of Part-Time Employed Remains Higher Than the Pre-Recession Levels - dshort - Advisor Perspectives
The average work week is now 47 hours
[read down to the second chart]
they also had free room and board....Slaves didn't get paid at all but they lived.
I had to sell some stocks when I was in college. We all struggle.
You just dropped an anvil on this thread
Camile.Bidan
Banned
Fair point. Subsidized living costs may lower wages for employers as employees would be willing accept less.
Fair point on the externalities of minimum wages as well. I agree. In theory it would appear that workers may result to crime or violence if wages are too low. However, the suburbs of France seem to show that criminality and violence persist even under a living wage.
My overall annoyance with living wage advocates is that they imply that their is free lunch--there are no costs associated with increasing minimum wages.
Most living wages advocates hate tipping and also hate high menu prices. Myself, I tip generously and pay a lot to eat out.
I don't mind a living wage if there is an overall consensus that the costs are worth it. That analysis is never performed.
I also believe that, morally, their should be a living wage because I believe genetics and heredity account for 60-70% of someone's life outcome. Hard work and discipline can only get someone so far. There are environmental and genetic limits placed on all of us. The living wage can counteract this inherent unfairness. And to me, the high costs are worth.
I don't believe a living wage is a "right" and the unfortunate are owed something. It's a compensating handicap for those born to unfortunate circumstances.
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raise prices and pass it on to the consumer and hope people patronize because they respect the fact that they're not paying slave wages and workers no longer have to rely on govt subsidies to survive. i would patronize they just need to advertise what they're doing. it's not like people aren't generous(look at crowdfunding) and dont want to see these kinds of businesses succeed, just have to work harder. well paid happy work environment with low turnover will be better for business and morale. i guess you just have to attract the right people with disposable income to your place so then location becomes everything. im empathetic to the small business but with the wage disparity in corporations it's inexcusable. me footing the bill through subsidies because they underpay their workers is just another of many examples of corporate welfare.
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ogc163
Superstar
Glenn Loury and Labor Economist David Neumark discuss the minimum wage on Bloggingheads
Bloggingheads.tv
Bloggingheads.tv
The Maverick
Rookie and the vet.
I'm recently finding that it's not possible to have a conversation about the minimum wage with people. There's been a great job done on the collective American psyche to the point where people are content with arguing against their own interests, even on the Coli. Let's get started.
1. "But businesses will close down if the minimum wage is raised." And? “No business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country.” That's a quote from FDR, who passed the initial minimum wage back in 1938. And when he said a living wage, he didn't mean living in a box eating a can of tuna, he meant a decent living. If a business can't afford that, then they are a net negative to our society. And when they fall, another will fulfill the needs of the marketplace. That's how capitalism goes.
2. "If the minimum wage is increased, workers will be fired." There's no statistical evidence linking a raise in the minimum wage and unemployment, but I'll entertain the argument. Do you really think Wal-Mart is keeping on more staff than they have to out of generosity? You really think that small business is paying staff to do nothing all day? Businesses already keep the exact amount of workers they need to operate, no more, no less. A raise in the minimum wage is not going to change the bare amount of workers necessary to keep a business running. And if a company wants to dip below that and let their customer experience suffer, well they probably wont be around for long.
3. "Fast food workers will be replaced by workers." Really? This is going to happen irregardless of the minimum wage. The day it becomes more cost-efficient to have automation in storefronts is the day it will happen. We're talking about companies who exist to pursue higher profits. Whatever accomplishes that goal is in play, including replacing human workers. Automation is coming either way. This is a posturing technique to stall against companies paying a living wage.
4. "But I went to college for xyz number of years, why does a burger flipper get to make more than me?" Let me tell you a secret. Most Americans aren't getting paid what they should. Gasp, I know. If one personally thinks burger flipping is so easy, that's when they go to your boss and tell him to give you a raise or you're leaving for a less difficult job. It's called having leverage. If an employee possesses skills which are valuable, those skills will continue to hold value. As a matter of fact, workers with distinguished skills will be more valuable due to their scarcity, and the market would correct itself in terms of how that translates in a monetary form.
5. "Such and such country doesn't have a minimum wage, why should we!" Some countries don't have a minimum wage and function well because they are smart enough to have collective healthcare, cheap education, a more even distribution of wealth, and housing that isn't out of control. Until America chooses to adopt all of these things, it's necessary to make up the difference in a minimum wage raise that can address the costs of living in this nation. After all, we are the greatest nation on Earth, no?
There's a lot of other things that I could address, but what's the use. Most people don't even care to look at the situation objectively and evaluate what's best for society long term. We're fukked until then.
1. "But businesses will close down if the minimum wage is raised." And? “No business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country.” That's a quote from FDR, who passed the initial minimum wage back in 1938. And when he said a living wage, he didn't mean living in a box eating a can of tuna, he meant a decent living. If a business can't afford that, then they are a net negative to our society. And when they fall, another will fulfill the needs of the marketplace. That's how capitalism goes.
2. "If the minimum wage is increased, workers will be fired." There's no statistical evidence linking a raise in the minimum wage and unemployment, but I'll entertain the argument. Do you really think Wal-Mart is keeping on more staff than they have to out of generosity? You really think that small business is paying staff to do nothing all day? Businesses already keep the exact amount of workers they need to operate, no more, no less. A raise in the minimum wage is not going to change the bare amount of workers necessary to keep a business running. And if a company wants to dip below that and let their customer experience suffer, well they probably wont be around for long.
3. "Fast food workers will be replaced by workers." Really? This is going to happen irregardless of the minimum wage. The day it becomes more cost-efficient to have automation in storefronts is the day it will happen. We're talking about companies who exist to pursue higher profits. Whatever accomplishes that goal is in play, including replacing human workers. Automation is coming either way. This is a posturing technique to stall against companies paying a living wage.
4. "But I went to college for xyz number of years, why does a burger flipper get to make more than me?" Let me tell you a secret. Most Americans aren't getting paid what they should. Gasp, I know. If one personally thinks burger flipping is so easy, that's when they go to your boss and tell him to give you a raise or you're leaving for a less difficult job. It's called having leverage. If an employee possesses skills which are valuable, those skills will continue to hold value. As a matter of fact, workers with distinguished skills will be more valuable due to their scarcity, and the market would correct itself in terms of how that translates in a monetary form.
5. "Such and such country doesn't have a minimum wage, why should we!" Some countries don't have a minimum wage and function well because they are smart enough to have collective healthcare, cheap education, a more even distribution of wealth, and housing that isn't out of control. Until America chooses to adopt all of these things, it's necessary to make up the difference in a minimum wage raise that can address the costs of living in this nation. After all, we are the greatest nation on Earth, no?
There's a lot of other things that I could address, but what's the use. Most people don't even care to look at the situation objectively and evaluate what's best for society long term. We're fukked until then.
I'm recently finding that it's not possible to have a conversation about the minimum wage with people. There's been a great job done on the collective American psyche to the point where people are content with arguing against their own interests, even on the Coli. Let's get started.
1. "But businesses will close down if the minimum wage is raised." And? “No business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country.” That's a quote from FDR, who passed the initial minimum wage back in 1938. And when he said a living wage, he didn't mean living in a box eating a can of tuna, he meant a decent living. If a business can't afford that, then they are a net negative to our society. And when they fall, another will fulfill the needs of the marketplace. That's how capitalism goes.
2. "If the minimum wage is increased, workers will be fired." There's no statistical evidence linking a raise in the minimum wage and unemployment, but I'll entertain the argument. Do you really think Wal-Mart is keeping on more staff than they have to out of generosity? You really think that small business is paying staff to do nothing all day? Businesses already keep the exact amount of workers they need to operate, no more, no less. A raise in the minimum wage is not going to change the bare amount of workers necessary to keep a business running. And if a company wants to dip below that and let their customer experience suffer, well they probably wont be around for long.
3. "Fast food workers will be replaced by workers." Really? This is going to happen irregardless of the minimum wage. The day it becomes more cost-efficient to have automation in storefronts is the day it will happen. We're talking about companies who exist to pursue higher profits. Whatever accomplishes that goal is in play, including replacing human workers. Automation is coming either way. This is a posturing technique to stall against companies paying a living wage.
4. "But I went to college for xyz number of years, why does a burger flipper get to make more than me?" Let me tell you a secret. Most Americans aren't getting paid what they should. Gasp, I know. If one personally thinks burger flipping is so easy, that's when they go to your boss and tell him to give you a raise or you're leaving for a less difficult job. It's called having leverage. If an employee possesses skills which are valuable, those skills will continue to hold value. As a matter of fact, workers with distinguished skills will be more valuable due to their scarcity, and the market would correct itself in terms of how that translates in a monetary form.
5. "Such and such country doesn't have a minimum wage, why should we!" Some countries don't have a minimum wage and function well because they are smart enough to have collective healthcare, cheap education, a more even distribution of wealth, and housing that isn't out of control. Until America chooses to adopt all of these things, it's necessary to make up the difference in a minimum wage raise that can address the costs of living in this nation. After all, we are the greatest nation on Earth, no?
There's a lot of other things that I could address, but what's the use. Most people don't even care to look at the situation objectively and evaluate what's best for society long term. We're fukked until then.
It's amazing to me people are arguing against their own benefit and the benefit of the nation. Wages have been stagnant for a LONG time, and yet the price of everything continually goes up. I remember getting a combo was 5 dollars, and now its at a minimum 7 dollars, if not 8. Gas tripled since the 90s. So many things have shot up in price and yet companies have been doing their best to CUT compensation packages and lower wages through various means, so if the trend continues, we're essentially headed towards 3rd world status. What's common in 3rd world countries. Is it a robust middle class where most are getting paid fair wages? Nah, it's a situation in which there are super elite and then a vast underclass getting paid an amount so small that they can never save enough to pull themselves out... and this is the future some people are arguing for as long as they feel they are 'above the fray'. Somehow companies are making tons in profits and they pay CEOS millions in bonuses alone, with elaborate golden parachute clauses, and yet somehow they can't pay workers.
Some guys think that this is fine as long as they get to remain in a higher crust than the serfs. As long as they have their 50k+ job, they don't care what happens to those 'crusty burger flippers'. Little do they know, their little 'knowledge' jobs won't be safe for long once companies start importing more and more foreign labor in or allowing their jobs to be done in foreign via remote technology.
