MJ fans not gonna like this

[Sunalmighty]

you mean those Celtics
Stfu and learn some shyt

The Celtics team with 5 hall of fame players and one of the greatest defensive teams ever.

 

[Surreal]

Lowkey Dallas/Dirk don't get the credit they truly deserved for their 2011 playoff run. Rivaled by only the 94 Rockets. All to spite Bron

 

[Sunalmighty]

You know pippen back actually went out in game 6 of 1998. So much so that the team said they needed him to gut it out cause most likely he wouldn't be able to play game 7. So they had to win that game.

Hate pip all you want but the bulls don't win multiple rings without pippen. He was the one who guarded the the toughest perimeter player. Whether that was magic in 91 or Penny in 96 or Mark Jackson in 1998 (who the team struggled handling cause he would post every one up and pass out the double team).

I said it before when the bulls swept the pistons in 1991. They asked zeke, laimbeer and rodman what was different than last year. They said pippen we can't stop him now. Before we could now we can't. He isn't scared of us and has grown up and is an offensive force.

Exactly my fukking point. He was incapacitated. Like I said, GREATNESS. And against Phoenix Jordan scored the last 8 points (aside from Paxson game winner) to win the title in 93 also.

 

[Roland Coltrane]

Jordan would NOT have won a title without Pippen

he basically did in 98 when Pippen's back was injured in those Finals

also Scottie was injured half of the 97 season and the Bulls still got 69 wins



ALSO, people saying MJ didn't win until he had an all star but scottie wasn't an all star in 91

 

[Tom Foolery]

Scottie Pippen is overrated and gay.

 

[Sunalmighty]

he basically did in 98 when Pippen's back was injured in those Finals

also Scottie was injured half of the 97 season and the Bulls still got 69 wins



ALSO, people saying MJ didn't win until he had an all star but scottie wasn't an all star in 91

 

[DoubleClutch]

What did he say that was wrong?

Bron will likely surpass Jordan in almost all major statistical categories when hes done playing. Hes a better all around player in a given game, he can play and guard all 5 positions.

But Jordan is a better WINNER than Bron will ever be. Hes a better closer. Hes has a killer instinct Bron doesnt have.

Jordan was a better defender

Who cares if Lebron can guard all 5 positions.

Bet he couldn't of guarded 90s-early 2000s Shaq or any of the other great centers of the era.

Statistics is the only thing Lebron will ever have over Jordan not actual skill, talent or even will to win

 

[Roland Coltrane]

out of prime you can make the same excuse for the MJ Pistons and Lakers. Barely escaped but he escpaed ragardless, no need to put barely behind it.

Point is, he beat PROVEN champions, whereas MJ didn't. Let's keep it 100, LBJ had more competition than MJ. GSW alone shyts all over the competition MJ went through

no you can't

Detroit Pistons (Back to back NBA Champs with the number 1 defense in the league)
- The 91 Pistons had the number 1 defense in the league, and Dennis Rodman was DPOY for the second year in a row.
- Isiah's injury is not an excuse, because Isiah already played almost 50 games in the season and had played through injuries before, such as the 1989 Finals. Isiah also averaged almost 12 apg in the first round of the playoffs this year against Dominique Wilkins' Hawks
- and if you are going to use Isiah's injury as an excuse, Jordan must be given extra credit for winning with an injured Toni Kukoc (1996 ECSF), Ron Harper (1996 Finals) and Scottie Pippen (1997/98 season and 1998 Finals)- This Pistons team was still good enough to sweep the Celtics with Reggie Lewis and McHale playing very well
- People claim this team was weakened by the flagrant foul rule, but they ended up with the number 1 defense in the league for the second year in a row and with Rodman winning DPOY again, even after the introduction of that rule. Clearly the myth that the introduction of this rule hurt the Pistons is far from true. The Pistons actually allowed less PPG in 1990/91 than they did in 1989/90.
- For those who still doubt the 1991 Pistons defense, they shut down Dominique Wilkins to 21 ppg on 37% after 26 ppg on 47% in the regular season in the first round of the playoffs

Los Angeles Lakers
- The Lakers were still a great team, and they were not washed up like people think, though not as great as the 80s Lakers.

Kareem was almost a complete non-factor in the
1988 and 1989 Finals. The fact that the 1991
Lakers didn't have Kareem does nothing to diminish
the Bulls championship. Vlade Divac actually
performed much better in the 1991 Finals than
Kareem in his last 2 NBA Finals.
- Former Finals MVP James Worthy was playing with an ankle injury, but he still put up 19-3-2 on 48%, which was not far off from his playoff and season averages. Considering he was doing that against a top defense like the Bulls, it shows no indication that he wasn't playing well. By the time Worthy missed Game 5, the series was already over with the Bulls up 3-1
- James Worthy broke his leg and missed all of the 1983 playoffs, but nobody tries to discredit Moses Malone's 1983 victory over the Lakers in the Finals.
- The Lakers didnt have Kareem, but Kareem was a minor contributor on the 1988 and 1989 Lakers team. They were still a great team even with Kareem having a minimal impact.
- Vlade Divac in the 1991 Finals played much, much better than a faded Kareem did in in the 1988 and 1989 Finals. He was more than enough to offset the loss of a fading 88-89 Kareem (not a prime Kareem obviously)

- Kareem 1988 Finals - 13-4-1 on 41%, 0.6 spg, 1 bpg
- Kareem 1989 Finals - 12.5-5-2 on 44%, 0.5 spg, 1 bpg
- Kareem 1982 Finals - 18-8-4 on 53%, 1.3 spg, 3.2 bpg
- Divac 1991 Finals - 18-9-2 on 57%, 1.8 spg, 2.4 bpg
- Divac in 1991 actually played at practically the same level that Kareem did for the 1982 Finals
- This is the same Vlade Divac who was a key piece of the Kings that nearly ended the 2000-02 Lakers 3peat chances. Somehow only in Jordan's era is he considered part of a weak team
- Magic Johnson averaged 12.5 apg in the NBA Finals and regular season. Since then, no player outside of John Stockton has matched those numbers in the regular season, and Stockton never reached that assist output after the 1993/94 season.
- and no player besides Magic Johnson has ever reached 12 apg in the NBA Finals
- No player since 1991 has even reached 10 apg in the Finals, and no player in the 2000s has reached 12 apg in a season.
- Magic had averaged a triple double in the 1991 WCSF against the Warriors, dropping 26-10-13.
- If Magic Johnson was washed up at this point, then that only shows how vastly superior Jordan's era was compared to the 2000s, since a "washed up" Magic Johnson was a far better distributor and all-around player than any PG of the 2000s.
- Magic is the only person to average 20-10 (ppg-apg) in a Finals or Title run, doing it in 1987 and 1991 with at least 21-12 each time.
- When the Pistons beat the Lakers in 1989, Magic Johnson played a combined 5 minutes in the last 2 games of the Finals due to injury. Yet people try to discredit the Bulls' 1991 championship?

In the 1990/91 season, Magic Johnson averaged more
apg in the Finals than any player since then. No player has matched
his 1990/91 regular season apg output since 1993/94. Magic
averaged 26-10-13 against the Warriors in the 1991 Playoffs.
And yet people somehow claim he was washed up
1991/92
New York Knicks
- Jordan played the Knicks in the second round with the number 2 defense in the league, who beat the Bad Boy Pistons in the first round
- They had an all-time great Center in Ewing, whereas the toughest center for Lebron to deal with during his championship seasons was 0-0 Roy Hibbert
- They also had a stacked defensive lineup at every position with Ewing, Oakley, Mason, Wilkins, Starks, Greg Anthony, and McDaniel. They were as deep defensively as the 2014 Spurs were offensively.

A completely washed up version of these 90s
Knicks dominated the early 2000s defensively
- They then beat a Cavs team with 5 players averaging double figures

Portland Trail Blazers
- Then the Bulls faced the Blazers with Clyde Drexler, who made the Finals 2 years earlier against the great 80s team of the Pistons
- Drexler averaged 26-8-6 on 54% in the 1990 Finals and lost.
- People act like Lebron is special for losing in the 2014 Finals with almost the same numbers of 28-8-4 on 57%.
- People confuse the Blazers lack of big names outside of Drexler for being a weak team. The truth is they had 6 players scoring in double figures for the playoffs
- Terry Porter averaged 21-5-7 on 52% for the 1992 Playoffs to complement Drexler. He also outplayed Kevin Johnson and John Stockton in back to back rounds in the 1992 WCSF and 1992 WCF.
- Terry Porter in 1992 became the only player to average at least 15 ppg, 50% FG, 45% 3PT In an NBA Finals run (min. 1.5 3PA/game)
- In the 1992 Playoffs he had 21.4 ppg - 4.6 rpg - 6.7 apg on 52% FG - 47% 3PT - 83% FT
- They had the same Cliff Robinson that was a key starter of the 2002 and 2003 Pistons with the number 6 and number 1 defense in the league, as well as another elite defender like Buck Williams. Only difference is this Cliff Robinson wasn't washed up at 35 and 36 years old like he was with the 2000s Pistons.

The 92 Blazers and Knicks were just like the 2014 Spurs
when it came to having a lot of depth.
- They also had a great supporting cast of Porter, Kersey, Duckworth, and Ainge (same Ainge who was a key contributor of the Celtics in the 1986 Finals). This team was insanely deep.
- The Bulls beat the same team that the Bad Boy Pistons needed to beat in order to win a championship, and somehow it is only the Bad Boys that played in a tough era?
- I have heard some people say that Jordan would have never beat the Jazz when they had Malone, Stockton, and Eaton on the same team. Malone, Stockton, and Eaton could not even beat this 1992 Blazers team, and they also lost to the Blazers in 1991 with Thurl Bailey as well.
- The Stockton, Malone, and Eaton/Bailey Jazz in 1990 also lost in the first round to Kevin Johnson's 5 seed Suns team, and the Suns did not even have Charles Barkley on that team like they did in 1993.

Jordan did a better job on Drexler defensively than any of
the Bad Boy Pistons defenders did. Yet somehow his
championships aren't worth as much as the 80s teams?
1992/93
Atlanta Hawks
- In the first round, Jordan's Bulls swept Dominique Wilkins' Hawks.
- Along with Curry and Davis in the 2015 1st round, this is the only time that two players averaged 30 ppg in the same playoff series.

New York Knicks - Jordan played the Knicks with the number 1 defense in the league in 1993, and were down 2-0 for the first time since Jordan played the Pistons in 1990
- They still had a stacked defensive lineup of Ewing, Starks, Oakley, Mason, and Rivers. The very next year the Knicks would make the Finals before losing in 7 to a prime Hakeem's Rockets.
- Despite the fact that Hakeem shut down Ewing to 19 ppg 36% shooting in the 1994 Finals, and Ewing had almost twice as many turnovers as assists, it still took the Rockets 7 games to take out the Knicks.
- The Rockets also needed a series-saving block by Hakeem in Game 6, and all 7 games were decided by single digits. This was the only time that happened in a 7 game series in the Finals. A true testament to the depth of that Knicks team beyond Ewing, even if the names were not that big.
- A common criticism of the 92 and 93 Knicks is that despite their great defense, they were among the worst offensive teams in the league.
- Well, the 89 and 90 Pistons as well as the 04 Pistons were among the lowest scoring teams in the league, but nobody considers those teams to be weak competition, do they?
- These Knicks actually did a better job on Jordan defensively than the Pistons did in any of their four playoff meetings with the Bulls. Jordan had 30 ppg, but on 40% shooting against the Knicks. Scoring wise, the best defensive jobs the Pistons did on Jordan out of all 4 playoff series were 27.4 ppg on 49% and 29.7 ppg on 46%.

Jordan had a harder time scoring against the
93 Knicks than in any of his four playoff
series against the Pistons. Yet somehow his
competition wasn't up to par with the 80s?

Phoenix Suns
- Then they played the 93 Suns with MVP Charles Barkley.
- They also had Kevin Johnson. In 1990 against Magic's Lakers, who had gone 11-0 before losing in the Finals the year before, Kevin Johnson upset Magic as he led his 5 seed Suns past the number 1 seed Lakers in the second round. And that was without Charles Barkley.
- Kevin Johnson's 6 best seasons outperform Chris Paul's 6 best seasons from a scoring and assisting perspective, and Johnson did it without the inflation benefit.
- Kevin Johnson was only a 3x all-star, but Chris Paul was as high as 2nd in MVP Voting - proof that the standards of high quality are far lower in the 2000s.
- He also outperformed Derrick Rose's MVP seasons

and that's just for the first 3 peat



meanwhile Bron has played in an inferior, easier east the entirety of his career

 

[Jmare007]

Is this 2012 again?

Scottie said the same shyt on Bron's first or second Heat year and people went batshyt insane. Then Pip backtracked

 

[Originalman]

he basically did in 98 when Pippen's back was injured in those Finals

also Scottie was injured half of the 97 season and the Bulls still got 69 wins



ALSO, people saying MJ didn't win until he had an all star but scottie wasn't an all star in 91

So we gonna forget that pip was an all star in 90 and 92 thru 98? In 91 people like Sam Smith and Jay Mariotti and other NBA reporters talked about how Pippen had been snubbed from the All-Star Game. Even though Pippin had a career year his overall stats were better than they were in 1990 when he went to the all-star game. It didn't help when people like Bernard King who were having a career year at 28 PPG since blowing out his ACL.

Also pip back went out in game 6 in 98 not games 1 thru 5 or in the entire playoffs.

Far as the 97-98 season pip had been having bone spur issues in his ankle since the 92 playoffs when starks closed lined him in the 7 game series vs the knicks. Pippen had put off surgery for years on his ankle and finally had it. Folks forget that unlike MJ.....Pip played all those years without taking time off. So even after the 98 season he had played more games and playoffs games than MJ and anyone in the league. From 1988 to 1998.

 

[Originalman]

Pippen in Celtics' Green?

Oh, it was very real, Krause had a heavy fear of the bulls ending up like boston. Meaning stuck on deals and with a core too long that couldn't win anymore and when it was time to rebuild couldn't get a quality package to kick start the rebuild so it left boston pretty bad throughout most of the 90s. Krause and Jerry heavily feared that outcome so they were several times ready to push the button. Not to mention Krause was in heavy conflict with pippen and especially Phil jackson.

McGrady confirmed this last season.

Good post. But I put this up there with the bulls trading MJ for Mounring and kendall gill mariotti made up rumor. Or kukoc being traded for barkley. Anyone from chicago who knows the history of sports in the city know that the owners are notorious for being cheap and all about PR. With the McCaskeys and Reinsdorf being some of the cheapest in the history of the city.

Reinsdorf was not going to pull that trigger no matter what as long as MJ was there winning the championships. Sam Smith even mentioned in the 90s that the constant winning championships forced Reinsdorf to spend money which he was not fond of. Hell folks forget that MJ threatened on local tv during a locker room post game in 1996 that if Reinsdorf didnt pay him he would retire. MJ said that he was underpaid for years and wasn't gonna take a paycut. That is why reinsdorf and the bulls stated that the 30 mill was a pay back for being underpaid all those years.

You are right Reinsdorf and Krause (who did his dirty work) were concerned about being the Celtics. But for Reinsdorf that was about the money.....having money sunked into old player's and not winning rings. But trust the city would have ran him out of town breaking the team up without letting them do a farewell tour which we all knew in 1998 that was what it was. Even to start that season reinsdorf was leaking to the media that he wanted dudes to take paycuts but they wouldn't in the offseason.

But remember reinsdorf is a dude who when Lebron visited in 2010 free agent summer and said he would only go into the tax if the team was guaranteed to win titles.

People forget how after the bulls championship desolved in the summer of 1998 how all sorts of rumors that MJ and Jackson were bad mouthing the organization. Telling free agents not to sign there. That is one of the reasons the bulls tried to fix their image in terms of hiring old bull championship players for internal positions and even not tearing up Jay Williams contract after the motorcycle accident.

 

[god shamgod]

Far as the 97-98 season pip had been having bone spur issues in his ankle since the 92 playoffs when starks closed lined him in the 7 game series vs the knicks. Pippen had put off surgery for years on his ankle and finally had it.

You makin stuff up,it was pippens foot he had surgery missed 35 games and the bulls went 24-11 and were the 1 seed in the east without him

Good post. But I put this up there with the bulls trading MJ for Mounring and kendall gill mariotti made up rumor. Or kukoc being traded for barkley. Anyone from chicago who knows the history of sports in the city know that the owners are notorious for being cheap and all about PR. With the McCaskeys and Reinsdorf being some of the cheapest in the history of the city.

Reinsdorf was not going to pull that trigger no matter what as long as MJ was there winning the championships.

It's a fact the bulls were going to trade pippen to the celtics for the #3 & #6 picks in the '97 draft. Jordan called jerry krause and said "If you trade scottie I will retire right now" and krause didn't. Reinsdorf signed off on it he let krause run phil & mike outta town to hire floyd when jordan had said he might keep playing if they kept the team together what da fukk are you even talkin about? The bulls were trying to trade pippen for years it was bullets for cheaney and a pick,the sonics for kemp then the celtics. Just cuz you don't remember don't make it untrue

 

[MooseMouthMthafuga]

We still running with that myth huh...

Yeah...nikkaz need to stop with that tall tale.He can't guard any true blue 4's, 5's, or even 1's.It's hyperbole/ducktales.Kevin Duckworth would give him that work

 

[Champ_KW]

LeBron stans sufferin from CTE?

same LeBron that Coach Pop was not guardin on the outside in the 2014 finals

Jordan's mid range jumper is elite
LeBron's shooting is one of his major flaws

TheColi.com yall...

Think about that for a second....Pop was a rebound away from winning a chip where his game plan was "let LeBron shoot".

 

[Donald Trumps Twitter]

Lets go back and watch the 2011 NBA finals from start to finish

What happened to lebron?


Anybody?