Never compare Harden to D Wade ever again

[Unbothered]

I do find it funny how people discredit Dwayne Wade. He's definitely a top 5 SG in NBA history and maybe even top 3 but it seems like people have a problem putting him in the top 3 SG's of all time behind Jordan and Kobe but will gas and happily accept Harden and IMO a slightly overrated/over-exaggerated Allen Iverson as being better than Wade in the rankings.

On the surface, fans tend to rank Harden over Wade due to his scoring averages, 3pt shooting, and his lone MVP season. Others pick Iverson over Wade because of nostalgia and his flashy highlight reels, kinda reminds me of people ranking Tracy McGrady soo high because of the same similar reasons.

I've even heard people say Jerry West is better than Wade despite being 1-9 in the finals .

If rings and overall career success is the barometer for being ranked accordingly then Wade is top 3 among SG's but people seem to have a problem (irritated rather) hearing him ranked behind MJ and Kobe as if Wade being 3rd best takes the glamour off of them.

It's funny how the barometer for being ranked changes so much from player to player with MJ and Kobe they're ranked #1 and #2 as the greatest SG's and a lot of that is strictly based on their rings. It shouldn't matter who were their teammates...I'm a Laker girl through and through but only two of the 5 rings Kobe has you can legitimately say he won on his own terms as Shaq was THE guy during the 3-Peat and Kobe likely wouldn't have 5 without him.

 

[Unbothered]

There was actually a Facebook post on this a few nights ago on ESPN s NBA page...




As far as ranking these 3...I'd rank em the same order as they are in the picture .

 

[iamduval]

If you want to discredit Dwade, that’s fine. But putting Harden over him after we’ve seen this dude quit on multiple teams and embarrass himself every year in the playoffs is just laughable

 

[Don Homer]

You mad that Wade was limited to his athleticism. He didn't have the vision or ability to read the floor as well as Harden.

Wade without athleticism was a non factor. Harden with waning athleticism led the league in assists last year and helped make Embiid MVP.

Your pick and roll scoring point is also just an eye test and nostalgia delusion.

NBA has p & r tracking stats starting from the 2015/2016 season.

That season started when Wade was 33.
On 7.4 possessions per game as a p & r ball handler, he scored 0.85 points per possession on 44.1 FG% (44.2 EFG%).

When last season started Harden was 33.
On 6.2 possessions per game as a p & r ball handler, he scored 0.90 points per possession on 42.1 FG% (50.0 EFG%).

Here's some rocks for you to kick:

idk man. I think embiid being the MVP is more of a concerted effort by the NBA media to just give the nikka the MVP

 

[Biscayne]

Prime Dwyane Wade, 2004-13 (9 years)
He was a #1 for 5 years in his prime, 2005-10. With #1 responsibilities, he played an average of 66.6 games/year, we remember him not being the most durable baller but he was more available than not...

In 5 years, again this is Prime Wade, with #1 burden, he led Miami to an average of 40.2 wins/year, 1-0 Finals, 1-0 ECF, 3x Rd1 out, missed playoffs in '08...

That '06 title saves him but it's the anomaly of Wade's tenure as a #1 option. Shaq came to Miami and took them from fringe playoff team to instant contenders, as soon as he fell off a cliff Wade never put them in contention.......until another GOAT level player came to Miami...

This is my problem with Wade. They weren't even contenders when he didnt have Shaq and Bron. Don't tell me about who he had to run with, that '08 season is inexcusable, Miami was 10-41 in the games he played. In '07 he missed 23 games late in the season and Miami went 16-7, going from below .500 to 8 games over and making the playoffs. They amped up without him...

When he basically fully healthy in '09 he took them to 43 wins and a Rd1 loss to.......the dominant, overwhelming Atlanta Hawks. In '10 they improved to 47 wins but didn't improve in seeding and won just one playoff game...

Miami was never a contender with him when he didnt have Shaq or Bron. He did typically raise his level of play I'm the postseason so that and the '06 title run give him the ultimate trump card over Harden. But he wasn't better at basketball than Harden and I have no clue why people just eliminate results in his career ('07, '08, being unable to contend without Shaq and Bron, etc). His resume as a #2, in prime, is what super inflates him ('05, '11, '12, '13)...

As a #2 he played 70.8 games/year (more durable as a #2 because it was a more natural role for him), Miami went to 4 ECFs in those 4 years, 3 Finals, 2 titles. The Heat won 60 games/year in the 4 years of Wade's prime, that he was a #2. He has an argument as greatest #2 ever depending on the criteria, because he was a 23 point scorer as a #2 and had a few huge "step up" moments...

If Wade had a season or two that he kept Miami in contention post-Shaq, pre-Bron, I'd get it. But he didn't, Miami won without him when he missed time, he wasn't moving the needle other than being an exciting player. Imagine Harden having a season his team goes from out the playoffs in well inside when he misses 23 games...

Imagine Harden having a season his team is 10-41 in the games he plays...

Imagine Harden playing 5 years as a #1 in the weaker conference and never being able to win 50 games unless a Top 10 All-Timer is with him...

This is why Wade is overrated. The results don't match the reputation. The results show me he was very dependent on who played with him, Harden was carrying Houston into contention for with mid rosters, mid coaching, and no Top 10 All-Timer with him, disadvantages that, when Prime Wade was faced with the same, his team was garbage...

This is the guy yall overrate the shyt out of. I don't even need to touch the 2011 Finals. Dwyane Wade really was not That Guy...

In 2010 Wade lost to the same Celtics team that eliminated LeBron. Bron only got one more win off that Celtics team than wade. That was a Heat first round exit against the Eastern Conference champs, with wade playing with no other all stars on his roster and Dwayne “not a first option scorer” Wade averaged 33 and 6. Harden lost in round 1, head to head against Lillard, while playing with Dwight Howard and while playing with homecourt. Dwight averaged 26/13. None of Hardens all star/hof supporting casts rosters ended in a finals appearance. No matter the conference. He only made the finals as a bench player. Again, harden still has a chance to win a title as a number 2 option at this point in his career. We’re giving your boy chance after chance to not fukk it up in the playoffs. Something wade never had. Wade had to show and prove in year 1.

I do find it funny how people discredit Dwayne Wade. He's definitely a top 5 SG in NBA history and maybe even top 3 but it seems like people have a problem putting him in the top 3 SG's of all time behind Jordan and Kobe but will gas and happily accept Harden and IMO a slightly overrated/over-exaggerated Allen Iverson as being better than Wade in the rankings.

On the surface, fans tend to rank Harden over Wade due to his scoring averages, 3pt shooting, and his lone MVP season. Others pick Iverson over Wade because of nostalgia and his flashy highlight reels, kinda reminds me of people ranking Tracy McGrady soo high because of the same similar reasons.

I've even heard people say Jerry West is better than Wade despite being 1-9 in the finals .

If rings and overall career success is the barometer for being ranked accordingly then Wade is top 3 among SG's but people seem to have a problem (irritated rather) hearing him ranked behind MJ and Kobe as if Wade being 3rd best takes the glamour off of them.

It's funny how the barometer for being ranked changes so much from player to player with MJ and Kobe they're ranked #1 and #2 as the greatest SG's and a lot of that is strictly based on their rings. It shouldn't matter who were their teammates...I'm a Laker girl through and through but only two of the 5 rings Kobe has you can legitimately say he won on his own terms as Shaq was THE guy during the 3-Peat and Kobe likely wouldn't have 5 without him.

I’m a diehard Heat fan, and wade stan, but Kobe is where he deserves to be. He’s clear and away the 2nd greatest SG of all time ahead of wade. Even if you took his Shaq-years away from Kobe, he’s a 2-time NBA champ. He had two prime careers in 20 seasons. That’s impossible to do. Having said that, I agree! The same criteria they use to place harden over wade, can be used to place harden over Kobe and maybe even over Michael Jordan. But for some reason, they never tread those waters.

 

[Mantis Toboggan M.D.]

If you want to discredit Dwade, that’s fine. But putting Harden over him after we’ve seen this dude quit on multiple teams and embarrass himself every year in the playoffs is just laughable

2-10 in game 3 and 4 of the 2012 finals when both games came down to the final seconds. He got outscored by Derek fisher in game 3, which saw Russ shooting a 3 on OKC’s final possession while down 88-85

He went I think 7-22 with 4-5 turnovers in game 6 vs Oklahoma City in 2013 with no Russ in the lineup due to a torn meniscus

He was hideously bad the entire 2014 1st round vs Portland until game 6 where he called to switch off Dame on the final play before the inbounds pass

He was 5-20 and was a -20 in game 6 while down 3-2 vs the clippers & got benched the whole 4th quarter so he missed the rally. Went 7-22 with a bunch of turnovers in game 7 while Dwight had a 20/20 game if my memory is right. Had that awful turnover on the final play of game 2 vs the warriors in the conference finals when he could’ve called for time. Was awful in a blowout loss in game 3 at home to put the rockets in an 0-3 hole and effectively ended the series & season. Then he went 2-11 with 5 fouls & a playoff record 12 turnovers in game 5 while the rockets lost by 39.

He was awful all 1st round vs the warriors even with Curry missing a big part of the series.

In game 5 of the 2017 semis he got his shot blocked at the buzzer by a 40 year old Ginobili and then in game 6 at home down 3-2 with no Leonard he goes 2-11 with 5 turnovers & fouls out while the rockets lose by 30+

In 2018 was terrible in games 4 & 5 of the 1st and 2nd round vs Minnesota and Utah. CP3 carries the rockets with 40+ in game 5 vs Utah to close the series. He goes 5-21 with I think 5 turnovers in game 5 of the conference finals vs the warriors. After going up 39-22 after the 1st quarter of game 6 the rockets get outscored 47-93 the rest of the way. He finished that game 10-24 with 9 turnovers. Game 7 27 straight missed 3’s while Houston blows an 11 point halftime lead . He was invisible during the 4th until 3 minutes left with the rockets down by 10+.

In 2019 he fails to take over vs the warriors even after KD strains his calf muscle. He has a big game 6 but commits an offensive foul down 2 with 2:22 left in the game & then turns it over down 5 with 1:28 left.

In 2020 he goes 2-11 with 5 turnovers vs LA in game 4 to put the rockets in a 3-1 hole. Houston gets beat by 23 in game 5 but he shot pretty well so I guess we can’t blame him for game 5.

In 2021 he played on a bad hamstring and clearly shouldn’t have been out there so I won’t give him shyt for that one.

2022 vs Miami he averages 18 points on 40% shooting to go with 7 assists to 5 turnovers. 5-13 with 5 turnovers in game 1. 4-11 shooting with 7 turnovers to 6 assists in game 3 and everyone forgets because the heat players besides Jimmy go 0-12 from the field in the 4th quarter. He has a huge game 4 to tie the series 2-2. He goes 5-13 with 4 turnovers to 4 assists in game 5 as the heat blow out the sixers. He goes 4-9 with 4 turnovers in game 6. To be fair Embiid was of the highest order in this game.

In 2023 he has 2 horrible games vs Brooklyn while the sixers sweep. Has a huge game 1 in Boston and hits the game winner with the sixers trailing. Didn’t even go to the foul line much. I was legit impressed. Thought he turned a corner . Then he goes 2-14 in a blowout loss in game 2 . Then he goes 3-14 with 4 turnovers in a 10 point loss at home in game 3 . Then game 4 he goes nuclear and again hits the game winner while trailing . Then he goes 4-16 with 5 turnovers in game 6 & 3-11 with 5 turnovers in game 7


He’s got basically 4 playoff games since the 2012 finals where the stakes were big and he showed up big with 2 of them being this past year vs Boston which he immediately undid by following them up with a pair of games that are among his worst ever. This postseason resume is indefensible. 2021 might be the only year where his postseason exit didn’t leave a bad taste based on his play. Even a 2009 Alex Rodriguez type postseason where he hits a shytload of game tying and game winning shots including a game winner in game 4 of the finals to put them up 3-1 en route to a title wouldn’t wash the stink of loser off this guy.

 

[inndaskKy]

If rings and overall career success is the barometer for being ranked accordingly then Wade is top 3 among SG's but people seem to have a problem (irritated rather) hearing him ranked behind MJ and Kobe as if Wade being 3rd best takes the glamour off of them.

Nah see, this is where people are inconsistent. If rings and big playoff games/moments are the barometer, then Klay should be over Wade. Yet most people would not accept that.

That's why you have to look at numbers, context (injuries etc.) and individual accolades when comparing individual players. Wade's rings are more than offset by Harden's MVP and 4 top 3 MVP finishes. Harden also never missed the playoffs and post-OKC he was always the primary reason for that, except maybe last season where he and Embiid probably share the credit.

I agree that Wade is an all time #2 but even there you can start to have a debate if you compare Harden's numbers this year to his. Harden can't help it that Embiid is no LeBron in the playoffs.

 

[inndaskKy]

idk man. I think embiid being the MVP is more of a concerted effort by the NBA media to just give the nikka the MVP

I'll take the expert word from a guy who closely observed Curry be gifted a pity FMVP

 

[inndaskKy]

I’m a diehard Heat fan, and wade stan, but Kobe is where he deserves to be. He’s clear and away the 2nd greatest SG of all time ahead of wade. Even if you took his Shaq-years away from Kobe, he’s a 2-time NBA champ. He had two prime careers in 20 seasons. That’s impossible to do. Having said that, I agree! The same criteria they use to place harden over wade, can be used to place harden over Kobe and maybe even over Michael Jordan. But for some reason, they never tread those waters.

You must not be familiar with my body of Coli work

I'm glad you're starting to see the light though.

 

[DraymondT]

This is the guy yall overrate the shyt out of. I don't even need to touch the 2011 Finals. Dwyane Wade really was not That Guy...

2011 finals???? Am I readin this shyt right????

The finals where he had 27/7/5/2/2 on 55% and was best player on the floor most series

Where he has 32/6/2/2/2 in game 4 on 65% but lost by 3 points because Lebron put up 8 points and was outscored by half Mavs roster

When Wade wouldve won his 2nd FMVP and never be compared to a chokin playoff droppin no defense playin nikka like Har_en if not for one of the biggest chokejobs and atrocities in sports history by Lebron James

 

[iamduval]

2011 finals???? Am I readin this shyt right????

The finals where he had 27/7/5/2/2 on 55% and was best player on the floor most series

Where he has 32/6/2/2/2 in game 4 on 65% but lost by 3 points because Lebron put up 8 points and was outscored by half Mavs roster

When Wade wouldve won his 2nd FMVP and never be compared to a chokin playoff droppin no defense playin nikka like Har_en if not for one of the biggest chokejobs and atrocities in sports history by Lebron James

Lebron literally quit on that man bc he was going to lose out on the FMVP. People forgot but I didn’t forget.

 

[DetroitEWarren]

Nah see, this is where people are inconsistent. If rings and big playoff games/moments are the barometer, then Klay should be over Wade. Yet most people would not accept that.

That's why you have to look at numbers, context (injuries etc.) and individual accolades when comparing individual players. Wade's rings are more than offset by Harden's MVP and 4 top 3 MVP finishes. Harden also never missed the playoffs and post-OKC he was always the primary reason for that, except maybe last season where he and Embiid probably share the credit.

I agree that Wade is an all time #2 but even there you can start to have a debate if you compare Harden's numbers this year to his. Harden can't help it that Embiid is no LeBron in the playoffs.

nikka. HARDEN LOSES EVERY DEBATE, INCLUDING NUMBERS. Ok, Jane's got an MVP, horray nikka. Wade would average 35ppg EASILY with this wide open ass shooters league dawg. Your argument dies at every angle. Wade was better numbers wise, Wade accomplished more, the excitement comparison ain't even close, defense ain't even close, performancebwith great teammates Wade was better, performance with trash teams Wade was better. Go to bed my dawg.


We are literally comparing the 2nd greatest slasher in NBA history to a nikka who averaged 35ppg off throwing his body into defenders not even trying to score

 

[Don Homer]

I'll take the expert word from a guy who closely observed Curry be gifted a pity FMVP

Oh, word?

 

[inndaskKy]

nikka. HARDEN LOSES EVERY DEBATE, INCLUDING NUMBERS. Ok, Jane's got an MVP, horray nikka. Wade would average 35ppg EASILY with this wide open ass shooters league dawg. Your argument dies at every angle. Wade was better numbers wise, Wade accomplished more, the excitement comparison ain't even close, defense ain't even close, performancebwith great teammates Wade was better, performance with trash teams Wade was better. Go to bed my dawg.


We are literally comparing the 2nd greatest slasher in NBA history to a nikka who averaged 35ppg off throwing his body into defenders not even trying to score

Breh you keep making up this non-factor categories...

Best slasher? Wtf. Are we making movies for teenage white girls or are we trying to play efficient basketball breh? How about Wade had no three ball and therefore his ceiling in today's game would be Demar DeRozan.

Harden puts more points on the board through scoring and passing than Wade makes up for with his showboating blocks. That should really be the end of it. Wade himself will tell ya he ain't on that level.

 

[DetroitEWarren]

Breh you keep making up this non-factor categories...

Best slasher? Wtf. Are we making movies for teenage white girls or are we trying to play efficient basketball breh? How about Wade had no three ball and therefore his ceiling in today's game would be Demar DeRozan.

Harden puts more points on the board through scoring and passing than Wade makes up for with his showboating blocks. That should really be the end of it. Wade himself will tell ya he ain't on that level.

Well you go ahead and take the inefficient scorer who does nothing else outside of shooting and passing, who can't get to the basket to sabe his life in the playoffs, abd I'll take the 2nd most efficient SG in NBA history, in a league where multiple nikkas who can't shoot can average 30ppg in their sleep. Wade with a wide open court would be 35ppg on 55% right now, no doubt in my fukkin mind. Ya man's is a failure, over and over abd over again. Go ahead and coat tail that garbage my nikka.